GA Gate
 

Not sure if or how you may be able to help but would like to get some feedback from pilots.
Have been looking at an innocuous problem both regional airports and pilots experience accessing the General Aviation (GA) gate, particularly for the itinerant pilot.
As there is no standardisation of access through this gate across all airports and that federal regulations require all that go airside must be authorised as well as in possession of an ASIC, very interested in pilots reaction if there was a means by which using an App on their smart device be able to gain access through a technology equipped designated GA gate at any airport across Australia.
Have been working on a solution for both airports as well as pilots to make the movement through the GA gate as easy as possible without the need for airport management direct involvement.
Before semi-retirement was working with the aviation industry for over 10 years looking at this problem and now have a solution but need to gauge the interest of pilots.

How much will it cost? Yet another user pays fee? Apart from the ASIC there's a 'special' card for Moorabbin that costs & a 'special' card for Essendon that costs, bit over it all.

Surely the cheapest and easiest solution would be to RFID ASIC cards with a scanner at the GA gate. If needs be you just activate your card prior to departure and it has 24 hours access. To go write an App then to put it on a phone to then charge people to use seems a bit excessive.

GA gate? - like operating mon to fri 9 to 5 ? Authorised? WTF does an ASIC denote if not authorisation?

If any further barriers are placed between pilots and flying pilot numbers will decrease even more.

we already have: - intrusive over the top medicals. $$$$

- intrusive ASICS. $$$$$

- Three monthly map renewals $$$$$$

- BFR $$$$$


...........and that is before we even fly one hour! And you want to now require every pilot to carry a charged iPhone with a proprietary App and presumably a subscription? Go away!

Where I fly there is either a code you need on the inside of the gate or you need a coded ASIC. Since not everyone has an ASIC that can be coded, an app that makes an iPhone work like any coded card may be useful, for any gates anywhere. But this may be what the security people everywhere don't want, or even possible. Overall I want the gate to just be open.

I don't think you need another layer of identification. I find the biggest hassle at airports I work at are the security staff. Most have got huge ego's due to their perceived position of power. Currently I work two internationals and a domestic so I have 2 drivers sides and 3 RFID's card to access airside on top of my ASIC card. Sure I would love to consolidate cards!

Could not agree more! I go to several regional airports where the security/ARO/management want 6 hours of supervised driving before given an airside driving permit, and 4 hours on top of that, at night, if you want to do it at night, to drive 150m from the gate to the GA park. And the bulls$it excuse is, we are different to every other airport and much busier, so you have to be shown every thing... Bollocks. Somehow having 6 RPT flights over a 24 period is 'busy' and pilots can't be trusted to drive around with crashing into everything...

YPJT was good. A quick written assessment, ten minutes of familiarisation behind the wheel with the ARO, and you're good to go.

But, back to topic, I'd pay $0.99 for an app that got me where I need to go, but it will never happen, the current circus generates too much $$ for non flying entities to give up such a cash cow.

ICDIT,

I applaud your efforts for trying to address this issue, it is just one of the many issues that compound to squash GA.

I am not sure what level of regional airport you are targeting, most smaller country airports that have any security (many don't and seemingly have no issues) rely on a simple key coded access using typically the CTAF or other local frequency, but you no doubt know that.

I understand some FIFO airstrips in the west can be more restrictive.

Your idea is not a bad one, but without knowing the specific airports you are targeting it is difficult to comment as there are differing levels of security requirements based on the type of operations conducted at the airport.

Certainly as far as country airports with no more than low capacity RPT Ops go I would favour the simple key code access system that has proven to be pretty effective.

Mildura in Victoria is an interesting case, they have numerous daily high capacity RPT Ops connecting with capital city airports. Yet access airside is as simple as entering a monthly changed discreet key code for the gate. The code can only be obtained either directly from the ARO or from the airside sign on the inside of the gate you leave via. I am not aware they have had any significant security issues or unlawful interference with parked aircraft.

This system strikes me as the optimal balance, simple, cheap and to date effective.

On a positive note, how about this.

Port Lincoln SA has a dedicated clean modern GA terminal off the side of the RPT terminal, access to it and airside is via the AWIS #'s. Inside are table chairs, fridge, kitchen sink, microwave, tea/coffee and milk, clean toilets even a separate room with a bunk bed and clean linen.

Dedicated for GA flyers.

Amasing what can happen when the ARO responsible has done some time working for a FBO at a busy airport in the US and learns first hand how it could be and should be. And he's chuffed and proud when folk use it and appreciate his efforts.

Go to Hervey Bay and see the little despots in action. I used to fly in there regularly in a chopper, and because of the lousy way the taxiways and GA parking was set out, we had to park way over on the western end of the hardstand, past the terminal. The GA gate was 200m east of the terminal, but if we walked across the RPT hardstand, the security dudes would gallop over and inform us of our grievous sin.
After tracking clear of their area and getting to the GA gate, it was then the same hike back landside to the terminal to use the toilets and try to get a coffee. Once that was done, attempting to exit the terminal by asking the attendants to open the door was a huge effort. Despite being in company uniform, ASIC displayed correctly, and the chopper visible through the window, the Jobsworths would make us wait until after the RPT had done its turn around , loaded the pax and doors shut before they opened the doors for us.

Totally unnecessary horsefeathers.

Thanks for the initial response and ask that you tell your friends as we need as wide a response as possible.
We have observed this issue for a very long time and the object is to lessen the burden not increase it. And yes there will have to be a cost but our objective is to make that as palatable as possible and shared with the airport. This is still early days so looking forward to working with not against you.

Yep, and lets not forget that all this security is thanks to islam..:hmm:






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Hi ICDIT, I think there might be a few issues - you may already have considered them, and have solutions available, but here are some of my thoughts.

If your planned system is in place, whoever has the phone with the app, has access. Someone has a phone with the security credentials, and they can get airside, without dealing with airport security or showing their ASIC to the ARO or anything like that - while that might be the aim of your app, it has downsides too, you have to have some method of preventing other unauthorised users from getting the app and installing it, possibly with faked credentials. Issuing and revoking these credentials will require some infrastructure. This is before you get into the realm of attempts to break the coding in the app, or spoof the communications method.

If you are counting on this system to provide real-time access control or denial, checking against a central server that the carrier is authorised to enter at the time of entry will only work where the phone is charged and has network coverage (either on the phone, or the gate controller, depending on the design) to confirm that access is allowed. There are plenty of places out there that dont have network coverage, or only have Telstra, which could be a hurdle. How are you planning on using the app? Tap the phone against a reader? Enter a user specific PIN into the phone? Send a text to a designated number? The text method relies on network coverage. In other cases that dont directly use the mobile telephone network, what communications technology will you use, and is it fitted to a significant majority of phones? If your plan involves getting a large number of people to upgrade their phones it wont be practical, and any solution has to work with both Apple and Android/etc phones.

Thinking about the more remote airports that still have security gates, but typically have noone present most days of the week, a high-tech powered gate at remote airports may be vulnerable to weather or vandalism, where a mechanical push-button lock isn't, and will require power, maintenance and most likely some form of network connection to check whether the phone requesting access is allowed to enter the airport. This network connection could be the most problematic, hypothetically if it breaks, at remote ports this most likely wont be discovered until the next pilot tries to get back to their aircraft, and it may be a week or two until the repairs can be made after Farmer Joe inadvertently cut a cable or the radio transmitter is hit by lightning, so there still needs to be a backup method such as the currently existing push-button locks. If the backup method still works and has to be kept, it'd be hard to argue to add an extra layer of technology and expense at so many remote airports. There's a few of the things I'd consider in the planning of your idea :)

Remember it is the airport operators who approve what system of access control they have for their individual airports based on what works for them and more importantly, what the department will approve. Some airports already have very good systems of individual code issue or common code storage that can be accessed without any hassle at all.

Recently a few individuals thought it would be clever to post gate codes in the public notes section of the aerodrome listings within Oz Runway. No doubt done with the best intentions and could be argued, undoubtedly without success, that there was no lessening of the security outcome.

For the itinerant arrival, yes it can be a bit troublesome the first time until you know the procedure. The airports themselves usually have a system in place so they are not continually having to let people in and out of the gate.

Tell that to Adelaide airport. The workers inside the GA terminal aren't even allowed to open the gate for an ASIC holder. You need to make a phone call and wait for the security car to come and open it even though there are key holders right there who could easily provide access.

My phone can pay for stuff at eftpos terminals with my thumbprint. Someone can steal it and try and use it, but without my thumb, it's a big ask.

No system is going to be perfect. In the same way that firearms laws only make life hard for law abiding firearms owners, and no inconvenience to a criminal, airside access is only a pain in the a$$ for people that already have a right and reason to be there.

If someone is determined enough, they are going to get in, and do what they want, and nothing short of a shoot on sight policy for anyone crossing the fence will stop that.

As for reception, I haven't been to a place that has security gates and ARO's/security but no phone reception in ... well, it's never happened, and I go to a LOT of remote places in Australia.

Airside security/access is a terrible, expensive joke at the expense of pilots, crew and the travelling public, and the sooner it all gets wiped and a system based on common sense gets implemented, the better. But enough of what I would do on my first day of my reign as a benevolent(ish) supreme ruler of the universe...

I generally don't have much trouble getting in and out at most places, as you generally run across someone local who will give you the keypad code..or it is listed on the back on the gate.
YBAS is an absolute bastard of a place to get airside access. Maybe it's because of Pine Gap. I go to Alice for the last 5 years for the Finke desert race, and generally cop some small delays waiting for security, or local someone will let you in....no real drama. However a couple of months ago I was left waiting at the gate for nearly 2 hours for the "security" bloke to let me in. You have to call a number on the gate and request access and they attend and open the gate. When I called for the first time, I got some bloke at his home who wondered why the call came through to him. He wouldn't give me the code (understandable) and told me to keep try ringing the number as someone else should answer it. Meanwhile some local charter bloke who was preflighting his a/c told me through the fence to piss-off and ring the number as he wasn't going to open the gate (maybe understandable). After calling the number 5 times every 15 minutes and reaching the same bloke at home each time..he was starting to get the !!!!s. I had a 5 hour easterly flight in front of me that was starting to look like it was going to end with NVFR. At his point we reckoned the pubs were about to open and we should stay another day, but our plans were dashed by some other kind aviator who let us in as he was exiting the gate.
I fail to see any problem with simply publishing the keycode on the back of the gate

It only denotes that you have undergone a standardised identity check. (It's what the "I" means). It has no authorisation purpose at all. You are required to demonstrate a need to be in an area requiring identification by ASIC card as well. That is a point that is often misunderstood by ASIC holders. It does not give the holder carte blanche.

No, No and No. All such a system does is add ANOTHER LAYER of difficulties in accessing airside. Airport owners will embrace it as a labour saving device; 'no access App then no entry, period". This is analogous to the single point rental reference system where real estate agents now require that prospective renters sign up (at their own expense) for a standardised application form.

The outcome will be one more barrier to simple free access to airports.

First issue: lost or stolen phone - "call during working hours Monday to Friday" you are now grounded until Monday morning 9.00am etc.

Second issue: we make this compulsory at pilots expense and transfer the security costs for GA aircraft onto pilots and aircraft owners.
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Third issue: Cost - which will slowly escalate as the system is adopted.

To put it another way, it is exactly the same as what has been done To accomodation renters it puts the entire cost of the application/security back on them - plus of course a commission to the f*&*ing blood sucking leaches who dreamed the system up in the first place.

To put it yet another way the complexity of suchansystem will increase the cost of security and reduce access to airports.

To put that yet another way, as a free replacement of the ASIC card or an RFID access all areas card then we are talking,but as an additional layer - no way.

Sunfish,
can't see it happening mate. Airports already have systems in place that suit their local risk context and that are approved by the department.
Introducing something that will incur expense just because it is convenient for pilots I cannot imagine being too high on their agenda

Traffic,
:D well done. A point far too many individuals don't get at all. The airport decides who and under what circumstances a person can go airside. An ASIC just means they can, if they choose, allow you unescorted access.
Had one smart alec once try it on at a screened port with the comment "tell the ground staff that as I have an ASIC I can go airside whenever I want". I don't remember if I was more amused or pissed off with the arrogance and stupidity.

YPJT, you are an airport owner. I come along and say "If you install my system for free at the GA gate, neither you or your staff will ever have to worry about GA security access again, and especially not out of business hours. The whole system is approved by transport security. It even generates lists of who has been coming and going for you for free.

Airport owner signs up. A solar powered "gate guardian" with either fixed wireless or cable internet access is installed at the GA gate. Maybe with a keypad or key lock for police and emergency service use only.

You, mr. Pilot are told that the "new", "convenient" way for you to access this airport is via a subscription App for your iPhone or Android phone, but wait, there is more. After an initial Three months period, the new "Gate Guardian" system is the ONLY way you can get airside access!

We roll out the system to all regional airports and voila! We sit back and rake in annual subscription income from the pilot community! This is the "as a service" business model - you keep paying again and again for what should have been a one time charge ..for a gate key. for example.

To put that another way; "&*^k writing the CTAF frequency on the inside of the gate! THERE IS MONEY TO BE MADE!!!!

Traffic is er was,

Re. ASIC

As an ASIC holding pilot my reason for being airside is largely any reason I deem legitimate and justifiable. This could include, I wanted to pick up that empty chip packet blowing across the apron or I wanted to see what ply tyres the owner of the Mooney parked over yonder has chosen to use.



Airports...places where pilots land and take off in their aircraft, they weren't built so some folks could find something seemingly meaningful to fill in there day guarding. That came along after when we realised it may be of benefit at some airports.

That is a point that is often misunderstood by some airport caretakers.

It's not actually, it's the airport operator who is required by law to apply and enforce access control, so it is up to them to decide if your reason is legitimate or justifiable. If they don't consider it either, you'll be the one explaining yourself to the higher authorities.
Airports operate under rules and regs just as much as pilots do. Just like you, they may not want to, but they have to. That is a point that is almost always misunderstood by some pilots, who seem to think that they get to pick and choose which rules and regs apply to them.

The regs actually state Lawful reason. I have no idea what the actual definition of Lawful is, but I am sure there is a definition somewhere.

Beachie spot on mate.

And YSGE now has crap gates and codes.....due hoons on the strip at night. Or some other good reason.

50% pilot decline in 5 years. I may not be a pilot by Friday :-0

Traffic is er was or someone else able to post the law referred to here?

I cannot imagine a police officer removing me from airside as a pilot bearing an ASIC. More likely the airport officer calling the police in to enforce such a law (if it exists) would likely find him or herself looking for a new job in the near future.

Awol57

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Law can be complex but I would hazard a guess that it would mean something that in itself is not illegal.

I also agree with Beech King,
Having the code somewhere where it can only be viewed from airside, is changed regularly and is accessed relatively easily by pilots has proven the best way to go.

Sorry Sunfish, the CTAF is not a code, except for the lasiest of airport operators. Surprised the regulator lets them get away with it.

Laws? Have a wade through the Aviation Transport Security Regs.

I can, if you don't have a legitimate reason for being there. Just being a pilot (or anyone else) with an ASIC does not make you authorised.

From the Regs: So if the "owner or person in control of the place or thing" considers you not authorised, and since they are legally required to and must I guess they could have you removed.


Probably standing beside the pilot looking for a new job after his boss fired him for losing his access privileges, or for having his ASIC withdrawn for misuse.

youngmic, don't argue with ex government workers on defined benefits. They have no concept of how the real work functions. They are a big part of the nanny state and love rules and regulations.

I take it that that shot was aimed at me, and yes while I have worked for the government, it was 25 years ago. I have not worked for the government for far longer than I ever did. I have, however, worked in aviation all my life and it is an industry that is defined by rules and regulations. I'm not saying that I like all of them, or that I think some are ridiculous or not, but I don't get to pick and choose which ones apply to whatever task is at hand, so if I choose to ignore one and get nailed for it, the problem is mine. Some posters can whinge all they want, but all they come across as is petulant and self-entitled.

Can't argue with that.



The only person that I know to ever have an ASIC pulled (for not wearing/displaying) had a temporary ASIC issued by the same office within a few hours to cover the period his ASIC was suspended.

Gold!!

Agree with Sunfish entirely. If introduced it would be yet another cost borne by the user (pilots). In any case it is totally unnecessary and like purchasing a hammer to crack an egg. Simply putting the gate code airside as is done at many country airports is all that is required.In fact with a bit of imagination it could even be on the public side too in case you forget to write it down.eg "for access enter the local PAL freq" or area,ctaf,NDB etc and even rotate them often.Any pilot will know what it is but the general public not a clue.

Ceduna had a good system for visiting pilots last time I was there. You put in any four numbers to get out and then those same four numbers will work again just once to let you back in.

It is just so typical of the over-regulation we suffer in this country. Everyone wants a piece of us, and everyone else wants to put us in our place.

We are no longer the lucky country! It is appalling. :{

neville_nobody you're correct and if that was possible then the situation would fix itself. However due to bureaucracy, which appears to be the center of most comments, there are at last count 46 issuing authorities plus 9 issuing airports and each have their own issuing requirements.Hence the challenge.

Such a shame they went and locked the terminal to all but REX. Sometime after doing that they demolished the old but functioning toilet block out the back. Sometime after this they realised there was now no toilet out side the locked terminal. So they quickly slapped 3 sheets of old colour bond to the back of the shiny new terminal to tap into its plumbing. The bare concrete floor runs wet from the hastily plumbed in plastic basin, there is no light as there is no power and not even a door handle. Picture a tin long drop with a single flushing loo.

This is what greets you at either the start or finish of a long Nullarbor crossing.

Facilities provided by airport owners is another issue all together. In my view if the airport is free to use then they do not need to provide any although many do. My gripe is where they charge a landing fee (sometimes quite a hefty fee) and provide nothing for it. As a minimum I would expect fixed tiedowns in a cleared parking area,clean toilets,a crew room with at least a few chairs to sit out bad weather,a pay phone especially if out of mobile range.Phone numbers for local cabs,accomadation etc.I know there are publications showing all this but if you did not expect to have to drop in may not have taken it along.

Except for the runway/s you landed and took off from, the taxiways you used arriving and departing, the apron/parking area you occupied while on the ground, the runway lights you may have used, the windsock, the fence to keep the wildlife at bay, the beepback unit if provided, the line marking, apron markers, strip markers, the grass mowing, wages for maintenance, the costs of meeting the airports regulatory requirements, etc etc... no, nothing. The aviation fairies provide all of those.

Actually the tax payer (you and me)pays most of it in the way of council grants. The remainder being picked up by the rate payer. And why? So the town can enjoy the benefits of a modern 1st world society such as access to air ambulance etc.If they dont want this then close the airport. I have no issue with the fee just if they impose one then provide some basic facilities.

Captian Fathom,

Australia is very much still the lucky country, its just that most people don't read beyond the headline. Have a read of the original quote from Donald Horne who came up with the lucky country phrase. Does it sound like the rule makers who dream up aviation/security regulations in OZ?

Please don't make the mistake of believing every country airfield is owned and operated by the council. We have TO PAY the council many thousands of dollars for the privilege of running an airport. We provide a sealed strip, two grass strips, PAL, lounge, good clean toilets, snacks etc and we still get people who bitch about a $10 landing fee!
Remember that there are private airfields all over the country that get no government or council grants and have to recoup the cost of maintenance somehow.