GA Gate
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GA Gate
Not sure if or how you may be able to help but would like to get some feedback from pilots.
Have been looking at an innocuous problem both regional airports and pilots experience accessing the General Aviation (GA) gate, particularly for the itinerant pilot.
As there is no standardisation of access through this gate across all airports and that federal regulations require all that go airside must be authorised as well as in possession of an ASIC, very interested in pilots reaction if there was a means by which using an App on their smart device be able to gain access through a technology equipped designated GA gate at any airport across Australia.
Have been working on a solution for both airports as well as pilots to make the movement through the GA gate as easy as possible without the need for airport management direct involvement.
Before semi-retirement was working with the aviation industry for over 10 years looking at this problem and now have a solution but need to gauge the interest of pilots.
Have been looking at an innocuous problem both regional airports and pilots experience accessing the General Aviation (GA) gate, particularly for the itinerant pilot.
As there is no standardisation of access through this gate across all airports and that federal regulations require all that go airside must be authorised as well as in possession of an ASIC, very interested in pilots reaction if there was a means by which using an App on their smart device be able to gain access through a technology equipped designated GA gate at any airport across Australia.
Have been working on a solution for both airports as well as pilots to make the movement through the GA gate as easy as possible without the need for airport management direct involvement.
Before semi-retirement was working with the aviation industry for over 10 years looking at this problem and now have a solution but need to gauge the interest of pilots.
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How much will it cost? Yet another user pays fee? Apart from the ASIC there's a 'special' card for Moorabbin that costs & a 'special' card for Essendon that costs, bit over it all.
Surely the cheapest and easiest solution would be to RFID ASIC cards with a scanner at the GA gate. If needs be you just activate your card prior to departure and it has 24 hours access. To go write an App then to put it on a phone to then charge people to use seems a bit excessive.
GA gate? - like operating mon to fri 9 to 5 ? Authorised? WTF does an ASIC denote if not authorisation?
If any further barriers are placed between pilots and flying pilot numbers will decrease even more.
we already have: - intrusive over the top medicals. $$$$
- intrusive ASICS. $$$$$
- Three monthly map renewals $$$$$$
- BFR $$$$$
...........and that is before we even fly one hour! And you want to now require every pilot to carry a charged iPhone with a proprietary App and presumably a subscription? Go away!
If any further barriers are placed between pilots and flying pilot numbers will decrease even more.
we already have: - intrusive over the top medicals. $$$$
- intrusive ASICS. $$$$$
- Three monthly map renewals $$$$$$
- BFR $$$$$
...........and that is before we even fly one hour! And you want to now require every pilot to carry a charged iPhone with a proprietary App and presumably a subscription? Go away!
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Where I fly there is either a code you need on the inside of the gate or you need a coded ASIC. Since not everyone has an ASIC that can be coded, an app that makes an iPhone work like any coded card may be useful, for any gates anywhere. But this may be what the security people everywhere don't want, or even possible. Overall I want the gate to just be open.
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I don't think you need another layer of identification. I find the biggest hassle at airports I work at are the security staff. Most have got huge ego's due to their perceived position of power. Currently I work two internationals and a domestic so I have 2 drivers sides and 3 RFID's card to access airside on top of my ASIC card. Sure I would love to consolidate cards!
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Could not agree more! I go to several regional airports where the security/ARO/management want 6 hours of supervised driving before given an airside driving permit, and 4 hours on top of that, at night, if you want to do it at night, to drive 150m from the gate to the GA park. And the bulls$it excuse is, we are different to every other airport and much busier, so you have to be shown every thing... Bollocks. Somehow having 6 RPT flights over a 24 period is 'busy' and pilots can't be trusted to drive around with crashing into everything...
YPJT was good. A quick written assessment, ten minutes of familiarisation behind the wheel with the ARO, and you're good to go.
But, back to topic, I'd pay $0.99 for an app that got me where I need to go, but it will never happen, the current circus generates too much $$ for non flying entities to give up such a cash cow.
YPJT was good. A quick written assessment, ten minutes of familiarisation behind the wheel with the ARO, and you're good to go.
But, back to topic, I'd pay $0.99 for an app that got me where I need to go, but it will never happen, the current circus generates too much $$ for non flying entities to give up such a cash cow.
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ICDIT,
I applaud your efforts for trying to address this issue, it is just one of the many issues that compound to squash GA.
I am not sure what level of regional airport you are targeting, most smaller country airports that have any security (many don't and seemingly have no issues) rely on a simple key coded access using typically the CTAF or other local frequency, but you no doubt know that.
I understand some FIFO airstrips in the west can be more restrictive.
Your idea is not a bad one, but without knowing the specific airports you are targeting it is difficult to comment as there are differing levels of security requirements based on the type of operations conducted at the airport.
Certainly as far as country airports with no more than low capacity RPT Ops go I would favour the simple key code access system that has proven to be pretty effective.
Mildura in Victoria is an interesting case, they have numerous daily high capacity RPT Ops connecting with capital city airports. Yet access airside is as simple as entering a monthly changed discreet key code for the gate. The code can only be obtained either directly from the ARO or from the airside sign on the inside of the gate you leave via. I am not aware they have had any significant security issues or unlawful interference with parked aircraft.
This system strikes me as the optimal balance, simple, cheap and to date effective.
On a positive note, how about this.
Port Lincoln SA has a dedicated clean modern GA terminal off the side of the RPT terminal, access to it and airside is via the AWIS #'s. Inside are table chairs, fridge, kitchen sink, microwave, tea/coffee and milk, clean toilets even a separate room with a bunk bed and clean linen.
Dedicated for GA flyers.
Amasing what can happen when the ARO responsible has done some time working for a FBO at a busy airport in the US and learns first hand how it could be and should be. And he's chuffed and proud when folk use it and appreciate his efforts.
I applaud your efforts for trying to address this issue, it is just one of the many issues that compound to squash GA.
I am not sure what level of regional airport you are targeting, most smaller country airports that have any security (many don't and seemingly have no issues) rely on a simple key coded access using typically the CTAF or other local frequency, but you no doubt know that.
I understand some FIFO airstrips in the west can be more restrictive.
Your idea is not a bad one, but without knowing the specific airports you are targeting it is difficult to comment as there are differing levels of security requirements based on the type of operations conducted at the airport.
Certainly as far as country airports with no more than low capacity RPT Ops go I would favour the simple key code access system that has proven to be pretty effective.
Mildura in Victoria is an interesting case, they have numerous daily high capacity RPT Ops connecting with capital city airports. Yet access airside is as simple as entering a monthly changed discreet key code for the gate. The code can only be obtained either directly from the ARO or from the airside sign on the inside of the gate you leave via. I am not aware they have had any significant security issues or unlawful interference with parked aircraft.
This system strikes me as the optimal balance, simple, cheap and to date effective.
On a positive note, how about this.
Port Lincoln SA has a dedicated clean modern GA terminal off the side of the RPT terminal, access to it and airside is via the AWIS #'s. Inside are table chairs, fridge, kitchen sink, microwave, tea/coffee and milk, clean toilets even a separate room with a bunk bed and clean linen.
Dedicated for GA flyers.
Amasing what can happen when the ARO responsible has done some time working for a FBO at a busy airport in the US and learns first hand how it could be and should be. And he's chuffed and proud when folk use it and appreciate his efforts.
Last edited by youngmic; 7th Aug 2016 at 09:59.
Go to Hervey Bay and see the little despots in action. I used to fly in there regularly in a chopper, and because of the lousy way the taxiways and GA parking was set out, we had to park way over on the western end of the hardstand, past the terminal. The GA gate was 200m east of the terminal, but if we walked across the RPT hardstand, the security dudes would gallop over and inform us of our grievous sin.
After tracking clear of their area and getting to the GA gate, it was then the same hike back landside to the terminal to use the toilets and try to get a coffee. Once that was done, attempting to exit the terminal by asking the attendants to open the door was a huge effort. Despite being in company uniform, ASIC displayed correctly, and the chopper visible through the window, the Jobsworths would make us wait until after the RPT had done its turn around , loaded the pax and doors shut before they opened the doors for us.
Totally unnecessary horsefeathers.
After tracking clear of their area and getting to the GA gate, it was then the same hike back landside to the terminal to use the toilets and try to get a coffee. Once that was done, attempting to exit the terminal by asking the attendants to open the door was a huge effort. Despite being in company uniform, ASIC displayed correctly, and the chopper visible through the window, the Jobsworths would make us wait until after the RPT had done its turn around , loaded the pax and doors shut before they opened the doors for us.
Totally unnecessary horsefeathers.
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Thanks for the initial response and ask that you tell your friends as we need as wide a response as possible.
We have observed this issue for a very long time and the object is to lessen the burden not increase it. And yes there will have to be a cost but our objective is to make that as palatable as possible and shared with the airport. This is still early days so looking forward to working with not against you.
We have observed this issue for a very long time and the object is to lessen the burden not increase it. And yes there will have to be a cost but our objective is to make that as palatable as possible and shared with the airport. This is still early days so looking forward to working with not against you.
Hi ICDIT, I think there might be a few issues - you may already have considered them, and have solutions available, but here are some of my thoughts.
If your planned system is in place, whoever has the phone with the app, has access. Someone has a phone with the security credentials, and they can get airside, without dealing with airport security or showing their ASIC to the ARO or anything like that - while that might be the aim of your app, it has downsides too, you have to have some method of preventing other unauthorised users from getting the app and installing it, possibly with faked credentials. Issuing and revoking these credentials will require some infrastructure. This is before you get into the realm of attempts to break the coding in the app, or spoof the communications method.
If you are counting on this system to provide real-time access control or denial, checking against a central server that the carrier is authorised to enter at the time of entry will only work where the phone is charged and has network coverage (either on the phone, or the gate controller, depending on the design) to confirm that access is allowed. There are plenty of places out there that dont have network coverage, or only have Telstra, which could be a hurdle. How are you planning on using the app? Tap the phone against a reader? Enter a user specific PIN into the phone? Send a text to a designated number? The text method relies on network coverage. In other cases that dont directly use the mobile telephone network, what communications technology will you use, and is it fitted to a significant majority of phones? If your plan involves getting a large number of people to upgrade their phones it wont be practical, and any solution has to work with both Apple and Android/etc phones.
Thinking about the more remote airports that still have security gates, but typically have noone present most days of the week, a high-tech powered gate at remote airports may be vulnerable to weather or vandalism, where a mechanical push-button lock isn't, and will require power, maintenance and most likely some form of network connection to check whether the phone requesting access is allowed to enter the airport. This network connection could be the most problematic, hypothetically if it breaks, at remote ports this most likely wont be discovered until the next pilot tries to get back to their aircraft, and it may be a week or two until the repairs can be made after Farmer Joe inadvertently cut a cable or the radio transmitter is hit by lightning, so there still needs to be a backup method such as the currently existing push-button locks. If the backup method still works and has to be kept, it'd be hard to argue to add an extra layer of technology and expense at so many remote airports. There's a few of the things I'd consider in the planning of your idea
If your planned system is in place, whoever has the phone with the app, has access. Someone has a phone with the security credentials, and they can get airside, without dealing with airport security or showing their ASIC to the ARO or anything like that - while that might be the aim of your app, it has downsides too, you have to have some method of preventing other unauthorised users from getting the app and installing it, possibly with faked credentials. Issuing and revoking these credentials will require some infrastructure. This is before you get into the realm of attempts to break the coding in the app, or spoof the communications method.
If you are counting on this system to provide real-time access control or denial, checking against a central server that the carrier is authorised to enter at the time of entry will only work where the phone is charged and has network coverage (either on the phone, or the gate controller, depending on the design) to confirm that access is allowed. There are plenty of places out there that dont have network coverage, or only have Telstra, which could be a hurdle. How are you planning on using the app? Tap the phone against a reader? Enter a user specific PIN into the phone? Send a text to a designated number? The text method relies on network coverage. In other cases that dont directly use the mobile telephone network, what communications technology will you use, and is it fitted to a significant majority of phones? If your plan involves getting a large number of people to upgrade their phones it wont be practical, and any solution has to work with both Apple and Android/etc phones.
Thinking about the more remote airports that still have security gates, but typically have noone present most days of the week, a high-tech powered gate at remote airports may be vulnerable to weather or vandalism, where a mechanical push-button lock isn't, and will require power, maintenance and most likely some form of network connection to check whether the phone requesting access is allowed to enter the airport. This network connection could be the most problematic, hypothetically if it breaks, at remote ports this most likely wont be discovered until the next pilot tries to get back to their aircraft, and it may be a week or two until the repairs can be made after Farmer Joe inadvertently cut a cable or the radio transmitter is hit by lightning, so there still needs to be a backup method such as the currently existing push-button locks. If the backup method still works and has to be kept, it'd be hard to argue to add an extra layer of technology and expense at so many remote airports. There's a few of the things I'd consider in the planning of your idea
Remember it is the airport operators who approve what system of access control they have for their individual airports based on what works for them and more importantly, what the department will approve. Some airports already have very good systems of individual code issue or common code storage that can be accessed without any hassle at all.
Recently a few individuals thought it would be clever to post gate codes in the public notes section of the aerodrome listings within Oz Runway. No doubt done with the best intentions and could be argued, undoubtedly without success, that there was no lessening of the security outcome.
For the itinerant arrival, yes it can be a bit troublesome the first time until you know the procedure. The airports themselves usually have a system in place so they are not continually having to let people in and out of the gate.
Recently a few individuals thought it would be clever to post gate codes in the public notes section of the aerodrome listings within Oz Runway. No doubt done with the best intentions and could be argued, undoubtedly without success, that there was no lessening of the security outcome.
For the itinerant arrival, yes it can be a bit troublesome the first time until you know the procedure. The airports themselves usually have a system in place so they are not continually having to let people in and out of the gate.
The airports themselves usually have a system in place so they are not continually having to let people in and out of the gate.
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If your planned system is in place, whoever has the phone with the app, has access.
No system is going to be perfect. In the same way that firearms laws only make life hard for law abiding firearms owners, and no inconvenience to a criminal, airside access is only a pain in the a$$ for people that already have a right and reason to be there.
If someone is determined enough, they are going to get in, and do what they want, and nothing short of a shoot on sight policy for anyone crossing the fence will stop that.
As for reception, I haven't been to a place that has security gates and ARO's/security but no phone reception in ... well, it's never happened, and I go to a LOT of remote places in Australia.
Airside security/access is a terrible, expensive joke at the expense of pilots, crew and the travelling public, and the sooner it all gets wiped and a system based on common sense gets implemented, the better. But enough of what I would do on my first day of my reign as a benevolent(ish) supreme ruler of the universe...
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ICDIT,
I applaud your efforts for trying to address this issue, it is just one of the many issues that compound to squash GA.
I am not sure what level of regional airport you are targeting, most smaller country airports that have any security (many don't and seemingly have no issues) rely on a simple key coded access using typically the CTAF or other local frequency, but you no doubt know that.
I understand some FIFO airstrips in the west can be more restrictive.
Your idea is not a bad one, but without knowing the specific airports you are targeting it is difficult to comment as there are differing levels of security requirements based on the type of operations conducted at the airport.
Certainly as far as country airports with no more than low capacity RPT Ops go I would favour the simple key code access system that has proven to be pretty effective.
Mildura in Victoria is an interesting case, they have numerous daily high capacity RPT Ops connecting with capital city airports. Yet access airside is as simple as entering a monthly changed discreet key code for the gate. The code can only be obtained either directly from the ARO or from the airside sign on the inside of the gate you leave via. I am not aware they have had any significant security issues or unlawful interference with parked aircraft.
This system strikes me as the optimal balance, simple, cheap and to date effective.
On a positive note, how about this.
Port Lincoln SA has a dedicated clean modern GA terminal off the side of the RPT terminal, access to it and airside is via the AWIS #'s. Inside are table chairs, fridge, kitchen sink, microwave, tea/coffee and milk, clean toilets even a separate room with a bunk bed and clean linen.
Dedicated for GA flyers.
Amasing what can happen when the ARO responsible has done some time working for a FBO at a busy airport in the US and learns first hand how it could be and should be. And he's chuffed and proud when folk use it and appreciate his efforts.
I applaud your efforts for trying to address this issue, it is just one of the many issues that compound to squash GA.
I am not sure what level of regional airport you are targeting, most smaller country airports that have any security (many don't and seemingly have no issues) rely on a simple key coded access using typically the CTAF or other local frequency, but you no doubt know that.
I understand some FIFO airstrips in the west can be more restrictive.
Your idea is not a bad one, but without knowing the specific airports you are targeting it is difficult to comment as there are differing levels of security requirements based on the type of operations conducted at the airport.
Certainly as far as country airports with no more than low capacity RPT Ops go I would favour the simple key code access system that has proven to be pretty effective.
Mildura in Victoria is an interesting case, they have numerous daily high capacity RPT Ops connecting with capital city airports. Yet access airside is as simple as entering a monthly changed discreet key code for the gate. The code can only be obtained either directly from the ARO or from the airside sign on the inside of the gate you leave via. I am not aware they have had any significant security issues or unlawful interference with parked aircraft.
This system strikes me as the optimal balance, simple, cheap and to date effective.
On a positive note, how about this.
Port Lincoln SA has a dedicated clean modern GA terminal off the side of the RPT terminal, access to it and airside is via the AWIS #'s. Inside are table chairs, fridge, kitchen sink, microwave, tea/coffee and milk, clean toilets even a separate room with a bunk bed and clean linen.
Dedicated for GA flyers.
Amasing what can happen when the ARO responsible has done some time working for a FBO at a busy airport in the US and learns first hand how it could be and should be. And he's chuffed and proud when folk use it and appreciate his efforts.
YBAS is an absolute bastard of a place to get airside access. Maybe it's because of Pine Gap. I go to Alice for the last 5 years for the Finke desert race, and generally cop some small delays waiting for security, or local someone will let you in....no real drama. However a couple of months ago I was left waiting at the gate for nearly 2 hours for the "security" bloke to let me in. You have to call a number on the gate and request access and they attend and open the gate. When I called for the first time, I got some bloke at his home who wondered why the call came through to him. He wouldn't give me the code (understandable) and told me to keep try ringing the number as someone else should answer it. Meanwhile some local charter bloke who was preflighting his a/c told me through the fence to piss-off and ring the number as he wasn't going to open the gate (maybe understandable). After calling the number 5 times every 15 minutes and reaching the same bloke at home each time..he was starting to get the ****s. I had a 5 hour easterly flight in front of me that was starting to look like it was going to end with NVFR. At his point we reckoned the pubs were about to open and we should stay another day, but our plans were dashed by some other kind aviator who let us in as he was exiting the gate.
I fail to see any problem with simply publishing the keycode on the back of the gate
Last edited by BEACH KING; 8th Aug 2016 at 11:27.
WTF does an ASIC denote if not authorisation?
No, No and No. All such a system does is add ANOTHER LAYER of difficulties in accessing airside. Airport owners will embrace it as a labour saving device; 'no access App then no entry, period". This is analogous to the single point rental reference system where real estate agents now require that prospective renters sign up (at their own expense) for a standardised application form.
The outcome will be one more barrier to simple free access to airports.
First issue: lost or stolen phone - "call during working hours Monday to Friday" you are now grounded until Monday morning 9.00am etc.
Second issue: we make this compulsory at pilots expense and transfer the security costs for GA aircraft onto pilots and aircraft owners.
9
Third issue: Cost - which will slowly escalate as the system is adopted.
To put it another way, it is exactly the same as what has been done To accomodation renters it puts the entire cost of the application/security back on them - plus of course a commission to the f*&*ing blood sucking leaches who dreamed the system up in the first place.
To put it yet another way the complexity of suchansystem will increase the cost of security and reduce access to airports.
To put that yet another way, as a free replacement of the ASIC card or an RFID access all areas card then we are talking,but as an additional layer - no way.
The outcome will be one more barrier to simple free access to airports.
First issue: lost or stolen phone - "call during working hours Monday to Friday" you are now grounded until Monday morning 9.00am etc.
Second issue: we make this compulsory at pilots expense and transfer the security costs for GA aircraft onto pilots and aircraft owners.
9
Third issue: Cost - which will slowly escalate as the system is adopted.
To put it another way, it is exactly the same as what has been done To accomodation renters it puts the entire cost of the application/security back on them - plus of course a commission to the f*&*ing blood sucking leaches who dreamed the system up in the first place.
To put it yet another way the complexity of suchansystem will increase the cost of security and reduce access to airports.
To put that yet another way, as a free replacement of the ASIC card or an RFID access all areas card then we are talking,but as an additional layer - no way.
Sunfish,
can't see it happening mate. Airports already have systems in place that suit their local risk context and that are approved by the department.
Introducing something that will incur expense just because it is convenient for pilots I cannot imagine being too high on their agenda
Traffic,
well done. A point far too many individuals don't get at all. The airport decides who and under what circumstances a person can go airside. An ASIC just means they can, if they choose, allow you unescorted access.
Had one smart alec once try it on at a screened port with the comment "tell the ground staff that as I have an ASIC I can go airside whenever I want". I don't remember if I was more amused or pissed off with the arrogance and stupidity.
can't see it happening mate. Airports already have systems in place that suit their local risk context and that are approved by the department.
Introducing something that will incur expense just because it is convenient for pilots I cannot imagine being too high on their agenda
Traffic,
well done. A point far too many individuals don't get at all. The airport decides who and under what circumstances a person can go airside. An ASIC just means they can, if they choose, allow you unescorted access.Had one smart alec once try it on at a screened port with the comment "tell the ground staff that as I have an ASIC I can go airside whenever I want". I don't remember if I was more amused or pissed off with the arrogance and stupidity.
YPJT, you are an airport owner. I come along and say "If you install my system for free at the GA gate, neither you or your staff will ever have to worry about GA security access again, and especially not out of business hours. The whole system is approved by transport security. It even generates lists of who has been coming and going for you for free.
Airport owner signs up. A solar powered "gate guardian" with either fixed wireless or cable internet access is installed at the GA gate. Maybe with a keypad or key lock for police and emergency service use only.
You, mr. Pilot are told that the "new", "convenient" way for you to access this airport is via a subscription App for your iPhone or Android phone, but wait, there is more. After an initial Three months period, the new "Gate Guardian" system is the ONLY way you can get airside access!
We roll out the system to all regional airports and voila! We sit back and rake in annual subscription income from the pilot community! This is the "as a service" business model - you keep paying again and again for what should have been a one time charge ..for a gate key. for example.
To put that another way; "&*^k writing the CTAF frequency on the inside of the gate! THERE IS MONEY TO BE MADE!!!!
Airport owner signs up. A solar powered "gate guardian" with either fixed wireless or cable internet access is installed at the GA gate. Maybe with a keypad or key lock for police and emergency service use only.
You, mr. Pilot are told that the "new", "convenient" way for you to access this airport is via a subscription App for your iPhone or Android phone, but wait, there is more. After an initial Three months period, the new "Gate Guardian" system is the ONLY way you can get airside access!
We roll out the system to all regional airports and voila! We sit back and rake in annual subscription income from the pilot community! This is the "as a service" business model - you keep paying again and again for what should have been a one time charge ..for a gate key. for example.
To put that another way; "&*^k writing the CTAF frequency on the inside of the gate! THERE IS MONEY TO BE MADE!!!!