Having the same problem Angel, but if I use a default one (ie 172) and don't change any of the figures (including leaving it in Lbs) it works fine.

Seems ok, but still lacking in few areas that avplan has covered - feel free to correct me if I am wrong!

IFR route planning - automatic insertion of IFR routes, LSALT etc

Plan shown on screen as you fly with updated ETAs etc

Radar overlay

Weight and balance no max weights for stations, no default weights for stations, not sure how to set up fuel stations?, fuel stations with moving arms not catered for, arm units in cm not mm

Avplan automatically puts info from plan into w+b and flight plan submission ie. fuel on board and fuel burns, POB

No pax manifest?

Still no integrated flight plan submission - have to export to NAIPS?

Cannot set up aircraft details such as extra equipment, fuel weight, pilot details

Can you copy aircraft types? can they be shared?

Can you print ersa, dap, w+b from the app?

Can you view, print and save forecasts within the app?

Thats it for now after a quick look, also have had a few crashes while setting up aircraft.

I asked a CASA officer today specifically with reference to "recommendations" and was informed if you are carrying paper maps etc and using the ipad mini as a backup, fill yer boots, but if you are using it as primary means and have anything smaller than A5 (ie. a normal ("maxi"?) ipad), they have been directed to issue infringements.

Ahhh, don't think so....:cool:

(Also keep away from non engineering approved fixed mounts (eg suction), I don't mind the ASA kneeboard product myself.):ok:

Well if casa staff have made the statement that anything less than A5 is an infringement and they have been directed as such by superiors then they should reword the CAAP to confirm same

No, a CAAP shows acceptable means of compliance with a reg (for AOC holders...), in this case, CAO 82. It is not the reg itself.

Let's face it, CAR 233 was written when Yoda was a young lad and needs to be updated to include the use of ipads and the like for non-AOC ops.

Guess we have a real problem here then. A5 is 210 x 148. A standard iPad is smaller, let alone a mini.

So does an iPad meet CAR233 or the CAAP, and how did the OzRunways boys get approval if the device doesn't meet the specs?

To the letter of the law then the iPad can still be only a backup device (even if it qualifies as an authoritative data source) and you still have to carry all the paperwork.

I'd love a definitive ruling here as this seems to me to be getting rather silly.

From my understanding the CAO refers to AOC holders and recommended to everybody else, but I'm not the expert.

Does anybody really know? :ugh:

Given the ipad was the thing that has set this whole issue off, I hardly think CASA is going to ban use of them. The screen ipad is 197mm high, is it not? Given there's at least a bit of white space around each page, a page will fit on an ipad screen OK. Obviously an ipad mini would be stretching the friendship and a ruling would need to be made about that. Sounds fair though if it's a backup only.

While I agree with you, if CASA have been 'directed to issue an infringement for anything less than A5', and they wish to persue 'the letter of the law' where do we really stand?

If a vexatious CASA officer gets out his measuring device, an iPad ain't A5. (Of course this never happens!)

The CAR and CAAP don't give approval to any particular device.

No no no no no no no no no.......:=

You are bound by everything in the CAR, CASR, CAO, and AIP, regardless of whether you are flying under an AOC, hold a PPL, and RA cert or fly balloons. Each CAO will define what type of op is covered in it's applicability or title, eg.
This includes commonly neglected areas such as CASR Part 92 Dangerous Goods (ie. carrying a jerry can of extra fuel on the front seat of the robbie, the Reg says All Australian Aircraft, not just commercial ones), CAR 256A Carriage of Animals (Rover cannot be carried in the back seat of the C172 without CASA approval) and CAR 143 Carriage of Firearms (you cannot transport your own firearm on a private flight without permission from CASA).

Ignore at your own risk when ramped.:cool:
Same as with the ipads. Normal size is ok, mini ain't. This was directly from a CASA officer and I did stress the mini vs normal debate and "recommendation" issues being raised here.
Not my sandpit, I just play in it.

MIHC, at the risk of creating severe thread drift, from your quotes, CAO 48 does not apply to a private operation. The DGs regs (and carrying guns for shooting drones) do apply because, as per your post, "the Reg says All Australian Aircraft, not just commercial ones". :)

Back on topic, CAR 233 does apply to private ops. CAO 82 (and all the new bits and pieces concerning EFBs) does not apply to private ops as far as I can see.

The issue is the relevance of the EFB conditions imposed on AOC operations to purely private operations trying to comply with CAR 233. Ironically, CAR 233 is not mentioned once in the CAAP, except for a bit about databases. :confused:

Paper Jepp charts are smaller than A5 - not much, but smaller because they are half US letter size. I suspect the A5 enforcement thing is a made up rule and would not sustain challenge.

For IFR I still like Jepp FD best. Ozrunways is a nice thing to show where you are on a coloured map.

Now go back and read the context of the quoted text. I was demonstrating where it says a CAO would not apply to a PVT operation.

And 48 does apply if you also engage in AWK, CHTR or RPT.:cool:

Right... done my own research...

CAAP 223 states that it is applicable to AOC holders (3.2) and general guidance for private ops

CAO 82 is regs for AOC holders, doesnt apply to private ops.

CAO 100.7 is weight and balance, include your iPad in your weight calcs.

REG138 is to comply with AFM, no iPad reference in mine

REG139 is carry documents, iPad is now an authorative source

REG215 is flight ops manual for AOC holders, doesn't apply to private ops

REG232 is flight check system, you may have to include your iPad on your check list, or have a check list for your iPad (wise any way to make sure it's current and works!!)

PAR 233 does apply, the iPad is an authorative source, good idea to carry a backup, paper or electronic.

REG 235 applies, but nothing about EFBs, but does refer to W&B (iPad good enough?)

REG232A applies to an iPad (or any other computer) permanently fitted to an aircraft, but mines portable. If yours is fixed this may apply.

CAO 48 applies, 48.1 includes private ops in duty time requirements for commercial. (no duty time for private opertations)

I haven't yet found anything that dictates any size or any types of device, can anybody point me to an appropriate CAR, CAAP or CAO that does for private ops, I'm still looking. (please no more hearsay, I'm confused enough!!)

Regulatory Reform eh?

Haven't CASA's OLC created a nice little empire (earner) for themselves ;)

Thanks garrya100.
My iPad and IPhone now each have a copy of my own guide to being rampchecked including details of regulatory requirements for stuff I need to have with me in flight plus a marked up copy of CAAP 233-1 with lines through stuff applicable only to AOCs and lines thru stuff which is only guidance (i.e. requirements only remaining) - represents the minimum so if I have that there can be no infringement.

Incidentally, that reg about complying with the AFM would apply to the loading system so if the OzRunways system is different for W&B then that is an infringement.

I have been informed that the only way to use any W&B app is if it has either been factory approved for your specific aircraft, or set up, validated and signed off by a CASA approved weight authority.

There really isn't anything we could do to make it approved for anyone!

djpil - would you mind sharing your "guide"? Of course its all written in plain english in the regs / act etc ... but it takes a while to read them all. For eg, I can't recall if you need to carry a certificate of airworthiness, or just an MR will do, and haven't had to fortitude to turn to the legislation.

Going from memory, this is what I think:

Licence and medical
MR
Flight Manual
Charts
Flight Plan with Fuel Log and calcs
Pax / cargo / DG manifest (as required)
Weight & Balance calcs

What else?

I know one very experienced charter pilot who got busted on a ramp check (Chieftain at Emerald) for not carrying a protractor and his licence (although he had a photocopy of his licence)...

An airline recently lost my baggage which contained my license (first lesson...), I then rang CASA explaining the situation (I was supposed to fly the next day). They said that a photocopy wouldn't satisfy the regs, but they could fax me a copy..... :ugh::ugh::ugh:I didn't fly.

Let's get back on topic, please. There are plenty of CASA bash threads around for you to tell war stories :}

Here is the W & B notes from the OzRunways web site:

Guess this is an area of the regulations that needs to be updated to take advantage of modern technology.

Is Weight and Balance Approved? / Frequently Asked Questions / Knowledge Base - OzRunways Support

Is Weight and Balance Approved?

Weight and balance does not require specific CASA approval. However, if you want to use the weight and balance feature in OzRunways as primary means of calculating weight and balance, your configuration needs to be validated and approved in writing by a CASA approved weight authority. This generally means a CAR 35 approved engineering firm.

Simply copying the numbers from the POH does not make it legal.

Many approved loading systems are the same as in OzRunways - it just does the arithmetic and that is OK.

No it's not ok, it's as Ozrunways says. I know from personal experience with casa recently. It must be approved and the process locked so it cannot be changed in error

To repeat: one must use the approved loading system however, for the aeroplanes that many of us fly, the method of doing the arithmetic calculations is not specified. I can do them in my head, use my old engineering sliderule or whatever. OzRunways is one way to do the arithmetic. Any are ok to do the arithmetic.
megle2, perhaps you were using OzRunways instead of the approved loading system?

Sorry Wan, perhaps later when I have refined it.

Actually we used the correct manual method with as a matter of interest a computer generated version ( Champagne ) to back up. Casa objected to the latter and put it in writing for the reasons stated above

I know a couple of organisations which use Excel spreadsheets set up for W&B. The way they are used would require approval of that application and one did ask me what would be involved to do it for them.

If I use Excel for W&B then I just use it to do the arithmetic, but only I know that.

Yep if you lobby them to release more than one digital map for reselling at a very high price !

Shagpile:

Using Edition 3 with my iPad2:

Undocumented feature 1: The display goes black and refuses to display any map although ALA's etc are displayed. I had to reboot the iPad. Don't know how I did it.

Feature 2: I can't enter a new aircraft type. Even using the template I get an error message stating that I haven't entered the ICAO code and manufacturer.

.......the rest is just brilliant

Guess there should be a new thread "OzRunways 3.whoa!"

Bottom line is that OzRunways version 3 is a great improvement on a good product.

If only the rest of General Aviation technology moved as fast as humble mobile phone apps ...

Any support requests please visit help.ozrunways.com so we don't clog the thread ;)

Hi all, new here :)

I bought an iPad mini today, feels way better than the bigger and heavier retina imo. So, how can we get CASA to confirm it can be used or not?

I am thinking of sending them an email and see what they reply with.

OzRunways 2.whoa!
 

So just to clear this up I can still use the oz runways app on the mini as long as I have the paper with me too?

Also how is it on the mini? Any lags etc?

Why does he need it to be approved if he's carrying paper backup? Nobody cares what and how you are getting from A-B as long as you are doing it safely, legally and have the appropriate paperwork and charts to prove you can do so. It would need to be approved if he wanted to use the iPad mini as evidence of that.

How about Private VFR operations?

If I have a current version of OzRunways, then I don't need paper maps?

My understanding of the new rule is that if it's a Private flight, it is now acceptable to use an iPad as acceptable evidence you are carrying the latest charts required for the flight.

OzRunways 2.whoa!
 

Just for a commercial operation.

I will always have my WACs, ERSA etc with me.
Just wondering if the mini performs as well as the other iPads with OzRunways. Because that's what ill be using it primarily for. Oh and angry birds of course.

Dcut, for AOC covered flights what you do MUST align with your Ops Manual.
So if your OM lists how you can use the electronic gizmo (IPad) then use it, if the OM makes no mention of it then you cannot use it as the primary.

Thanks for the replies.

I've recently spoken to a few pilots, some of whom use the ipad with ozrunways. They are all expressing concern about the reliability of the ipad and how they "don't trust it".

I've obviously asked them if they have any problems and they said no.

I am in the market of buying either a aviation GPS or an ipad mini. Obviously can't afford both atm.

Anyone had any problems with reliability? I mean I will always have my WACs and all.

Or recommend a GPS approx 500 bucks?

Deadcut,

I've been using an iPad since about 6 months before the II was released. In that time I've had one failure, where half the screen died. iPad replaced inside a week under warranty.

I now have a IV & a mini for backup.

Or is that a mini with a VI for backup? :ok: