As I understand it, one's subscription covers 1 x iPad plus 1 x iPhone.

I think it'd be great if it could cover two installations on the user's choice of devices. I never use the iPhone version but would like to use the licence on a backup iPad mini. :ok:

I'll second that.... not that I have a mini.... yet! :ok:

I too would prefer the second unit I can put it on were the mini, which I do not yet have, but will get in the near future.
Reason is different cockpit suits mini, compared to side by side cockpit for the "maxi".
John

CASA approval
 

CASA announced today: OzRunways approved to publish maps, charts etc. First approval for Australian VFR maps and charts used in an iPad application.

Friday will be a big day for them then

Confirming this means paper maps not needed for VFR private flyers?

Correct me if I'm wrong...
 

CAR 233 1 (h) doesn't distinquish between Private/Commercial/RPT.

It just says "Pilot in Command".

So I would assume, yes, No more stupid paper!

The e-mail I received didn't differentiate between IFR or VFR and CAR 233(1)(h) doesn't make any differentiation either.

So since you can get DAPs, ERCs and TACs on OzRunways does this mean you can use it as an alternative to paper charts and documents for an IFR charter flight?

So, it's approved for private VFR operations on an iPad only?

Good news for sure!

We at AvPlan congratulate the OzR folks for getting through the approval process before we did.

One thing they did not mention in their announcement email is the CASA guidelines for EFB use (CAAP 233) This applies to private operations (Commercial ones are governed by your companies operations manual).

The most important thing in my view is carry a backup. Please carry a backup. Please. This could be two iPad's (and there are guidelines on the minimum size in that document). This can be paper maps and ERSA for the route to be flown.

All it will take is one incident where the device failed and the pilot had no backup and then expect to have more regulatory oversight, which will affect everybody.

Bevan..

Bevan absolutely correct about staying safe people.

To answer some questions, my understanding is:

CAR233 applies to everybody. Basically, it means OzRunways is now an approved source of the equivalent paper. You may (like me) want to carry an extra device and/or a print-out too. Doesn't specify size of device required.

CAO 82.0 Appendix9 are the new rules that apply to AOC holders, but also recommended reading for Private pilots to stay safe. They mandate 2 devices in cockpit, a company EFB administrator, min device size, etc. CASA Summarise this in an easy to read CAAP.

Please direct all questions to CASA who are the subject matter experts on this. They have a FAQ here:
Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Electronic Flight Bag (EFB)

I can just see it now, two flat batteries because the buckets of 40 year old garbage that are three times safer than amateur built aircraft haven't got the capacity to charge them :cool:

Danger: thread merge !!!

Nobody mention hitler:

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lost me bro? Absolutely brilliant product! It will test Darwin's theory of natural selection though :E

Hitler, hitler, hitler :E

One question I've got is what size iPad to use?

I notice that the OzRunways people seem to recommend the iPad mini, but the mini screen size appears to be smaller than the A5 size for an EFB specified by CASA.

Regarding power, the easiest approach is to fit an automotive-style cigarette lighter style socket to the panel of your plane. A company in the USA even makes a cigarette lighter style socket that has TSO documentation.

On eBay you can buy a cigarette lighter plug has has one or two USB sockets on it. Most of these USB plugs will convert the 12 or 24 volts from the plane to 5 volts for USB.

It appears the A5 screen size for an EFB by CASA is a "recommendation".

Probably just means that OzRunways just need to clarify qualify what is required to meet the requirements to use their software and an iPad instead of papter maps.

"battery boosters" are additional batteries that plug into your device to extend the power charge. They are cheap insurance against flat batteries in flight and I always carry a couple of fully charged one in my nav bag.

WTF has ICAO got to do with flying around in Australia?

I've had this argument with a few people, don't let that pretty image on casas website with the tick and crosses fool you, that isn't a law. CAO 82.0 says:

I know this is just as 'grey area' as all the other regs but it's not for ozrunways to stipulate a size or for you to sue them if you get caught with a mini, it's for you to argue to casa or a judge that the mini displays the data in a "size and form that is at least as easily read as the paper equivalent"

This is great news, and Kudo's to CASA and Ozr for implementing this.
I believe that this marks the largest step foward in enhanced aviation safety since the common availability of GPS.
Well done.:ok:

The actual legislation:CAO 82.0 Appendix9:

From CAAP 233-1(0):

From CASA's website on EFB's:
http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...ss_cockpit.png

And this regarding CAAP's from the CASA website:

I now have an excuse to buy a second iPad!

So, to review, even though the regulations do not specifically state that you cannot use an EFB smaller than A5, the CAAP's recommend that you do not. And if you get ramp checked you can argue until you are blue in the face pointing out CAR233 but it won't stop you getting pinged because their word (recommendation/opinion/belief etc.) is final.

Ill take that argument up if I get ramped and my mini is questioned.

If casa want people to use an A5 sized tablet, fine, stipulate that in the regs. All the :mad: grey areas are why the regs are such a mess. the very fact that a bunch of pilots can sit on the internet and argue for month about whether or not we can or can't do something is proof that the system is a joke.

I'm not sure it's such a big deal the size, as I can't see they many of us have bought a mini already unless I am mistaken.

CASA FOI at Temora this afternoon told me iPad Minis are allowed now. They've changed their mind, I assume the website will be updated soon accordingly.

Which makes sense, nobody can argue with a straight face that a mini is not "approximately A5".

Common sense prevails! :ok:

Well I've been using a mini primarily, and in the environments I work in, mostly (day and night vfr) seeing the maps has never been an issue for me in fact, the improved SA it gives me means quicker positive fixes, and less time head down.

I would say that I've "leaned" on the technology recently while still having backups, and not once have I needed to go to the paper in over 200 flight hours..

Before the CASA green light it was like having a Ferrari and being told to drive a Datsun 180 B ..

Finally I can honestly and genuinely congratulate CASA for showing common sense , an awareness of the times we live in and good decision making..

No it is like owning a Ferrari and being told to drive it like a Datsun 180B:ok:

Are there any/many AOC holders who have successfully implemented the requirements of CAO 82.0 Ap.9 and are operating commercially using the iPad?
Seems like a large amount of work to get through.
I'm wondering what the biggest challenges to overcome were?

As it stands, unless you own your own aircraft I can't imagine many places you could hire a plane from privately that could legally allow you to use an iPad - due to it not being in their ops manual..
Or do I have the wrong end of the stick?

I had a look at the iPad Mini on the weekend, and given the Mini appears to be recommended by the Ozrunways people and acceptable to CASA, it seems the best option.

The screen appears large enough to be useful and the nominal 10 hour battery life is good. The Mini also appears to be a good size to fit in a knee-board.

A quick check shows that the iPad Mini is being released in a "couple" of months, so I might wait a while longer for that.

Any idea when version 3 will be available?

Real soon!

iPad 1 users will be most impressed with version 3. It runs much better on as the maps scroll around much faster and smoother.

Good work guys!

I must say I am less impressed with the method chosen to release v3.0.
Announcing it will be released at Natfly, a week before Natfly, and nothing since heard about it is odd.
What would have been the disadvantage of releasing it as soon as it was finished, and doing a detailed presentation at Natfly?
John

John..
Apart from being a customer, I have nothing to do with ozrunways, but having dealt with apple trying to get a hard and fast date to release something on the App Store is like trying to get a date with Scarlett johansen. Also I can only assume getting approval from CASA this week must have sent them scampering...
I'm sure it will be soon...

It will be this arvo, I am working on it now.

Very simple reason: 3.0 has a whole new website and subscriber database to go with it. This migration has been well tested with our dozens of beta testers and has gone well. However, there is always a risk.

3.0 was approved by Apple late Wednesday morning. With all of us leaving for NATFLY on Thursday (where it turned out we had no usable internet at all HJ, thanks Telstra!) it was deemed a risk too high to release before, being unable to provide proper support.

I am sure you'll understand!

And there it is, on the app store.

Well done.
Not easy and I do understand about Telstra.
John

Just got Version 3 as an update.

It's good to see a great product get better.

Tank U. Will,download and start playing this evening

Baswell,

V3.0 is fantastic.. Updated before my flight this afternoon and was a great improvement, especially the fast mapping. My only question is, are there any plans on allowing the subscription to cover x2 iPad units as apposed to just one iPad and one iPhone?

As always, looks superb, had a quick play, anyone found the W&B?

(P.S. we won't mention Whyalla)

Yup, W&B looks good, however I can't get the thing to stay in KG. Keeps wanting to revert to Lbs for me.

I've had some issues with the w+b. I tried to set one up that I've successfully done elsewhere( in a w+b program- I used all the same figures), but the area inside the box doesn't change at all, and no matter what I change it won't give me the actual figures..

I've probably done something wrong, but I tried setting up new aircraft from scratch, and still no good?