Sharp airlines
 

Hey all.

I'm just wondering if anyone has went on and done the cadetship with sharp airlines, Is it recommend and is it a good stepping stone into Qantaslink if its what your aiming for.

Thank you

I haven’t done the cadetship so cannot comment of quality of training but I do have info on the employment side of it. But like most cadetships... they have their own pros and cons:

Pros:
- The course contains all theory and practical components for a start in aviation...cpl, aptl’s, mecir etc..
- 12 months employment after completion of training (only 10 months for the current graduates as they got behind schedule)
- Flying turboprop on RPT and charter in multi-crew environment
Come out with certificates and diplomas in aviation, which if you chose to go to uni down the track they do credit you for
- Good bunch to work with

Cons:
- Course cost is $109k or $98k with salary advance/bond (minus the metro endorsement you could get your cpl, mecir and atpl's for $70k give or take if done privately and self studied)

- Cadets only paid $400 a week for the 12 months employment and you work flat so no time for other second job

-A lot of secondary duties like check-in and ground handling

(all i can think of at the moment)

In the past some cadets have been kept on after their 12 months employment (not very many), and others got jobs with other operators on metros and single pilot twins. But in the current economic climate chances of being kept on are zero as there is another 13 or so cadets waiting to jump in after you finish. Also recent cadets who have finished their employment have found it difficult to get jobs and are looking at having to go back onto singles.


In the end mate, if you got the money to do it and don’t mind living off the smell of an oily rag for 12 months (or have your parents continue to support you) then it’s probably a good way to get a start in the industry. And by the time you did the 27 months (training and employment) the economy should be in better shape. But even when the economy is at its best you won’t jump from sharp into qantaslink.

Just my 2 cents worst... hope it helps :)

I tread where others dare to go...but must i say Highflyer nearly got it right but;

Pros/Cons.

1. 2009 contract was only for 10 months due to a reduction in the course length from 30 months to 27 months. This was because Rex/Qantas/Fastrack/Jetcraft etc all offered "short courses" not something I was happy about but guess how many still offer cadetships? This was spealt out in the 2009 contracts prior to sign up. On the flip side we offered NO reduction in flying hours i.e. we still promised the 500 hours of experience or 750 hours total as per the 12 month contract

2. Cadets are paid i.a.w. the Regional Airline Pilots award group 6 Co-Pilot i.e. $38,742 plus super etc (look it up). The reduction comes from your choice to take the reduced price i.e. $98K we then advance you $11K to help cover the course costs (mum and dad normally do not argue!!) This does then reduce your take home and this amount is bonded until you finish...no apologies for this.

3. Yes we work you hard but within duty limits but Gen Y sometimes have issues with working hard but don't get me started....no apologies for that as most pilots reading this including me worked their buts off to get where they are.

4. I cannot help current GFC but I can tell you there are 2 cadets left without jobs from 2008 course and I have secured them interviews in the next few weeks (they do not know this yet but will find out now no doubt!)

5. 19 years of running our cadetship has delivered a 85% success ratio something that I bet most larger courses would not get close to...no apologies for that! But when Jonny or Sammy says they find it all too hard and even though mum and dad have spent $100K on me I would rather take some time off to tour the world etc...I say fill your boots young fellow but you are wasting a great opportunity....you know you can lead the horse to water etc!!

6. A small majority of our pilots have gone to QL but most have gone to Jetstar, Virgin, Qantas, Cathay, Airnorth, Rex, Brindabella etc. Not always directly but that's aviation love it or hate it.

As HF says if you want to work hard get paid reasonably you will make it in aviation but its never a given. My first job was flogging around in a C210 then instructing (and I loved it) and after 1,500 hours I finally got some twin time only to have my job taken by the 89'ers, but no hard feelings to these guys as they did it hard as well.

So if getting your backside into a 250kt turboprop at 250 hours in a
multicrew enviroment at flight levels above most wx earning award wages is tough then try doing what I did and most other aviators have done before you....! also do not bother applying for our course.

So give me a call or send me an e-mail if you are interested and I will tell you how it is and how it should be...I make no apologies for that and the many that have been before me.

Sleep well.

Msharp.

Thank you so much for that. I guess now i have a lot to think about, But it would be really nice if people who have done it could just spare a minute to drop something in about the cadetship

Thank you

peugeotboi

I have known MS for many years and seen his operation develop over the years from a small flying training school to the innovative operation it is today. (He probably does not know who I am these days). From the beginning he has established a professional and safety ethos that is second to none in the industry. If you are willing to work hard as he has stated you will become very employable in this industry.

Apart from the money this is a pretty cruzy way of getting a foot in the door of an industry that can be at times very fickled. I would imagine it's hard work to get thru it all but as MS said....we worked our butts off to get where we are.............

MS has always been a DTE guy, he's one of the few who will actually talk to you at ground level. Remember MS runs a business, he does this primarily to make money to live/survive like we all do. Try doing the same cheaper!
Just as a side note here. I used to own a hobby shop years ago & it was amazing the amount of customers whom asked for a discount even though an item was the cheapest you could find in any hobby store. I fixed that problem by putting a sign up above my counter. "Dear customer. If yr willing to tell yr employer that you will accept 10% less wages off next weeks pay then I'll ditto that same 10% here at point of sale"
I know above is a bit off track but it costs to be a pilot today anyway you look at it.

If cadet ship is the way of the future then MS is the future,shame about the hair though!!:ok:


Wmk2

p.s.........MS plz fwd bribe money to bank Acc xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxxxx:}

peugeotboi...

The cadetship is structured very well and although I can't comment on the training first hand either, I have worked for the company and know you will get what you pay for. The groups are small enough that they are personal and therefore you will get the help and attention you need to progress consistently, you are not just another number like at some bigger schools. I'm sure you didn't expect MS himself to answer your post..as Wally already said, he is a really down to earth guy, very upfront and honest and runs the business and cadetship in a very professional and fair manner. Sure you will have to work hard but the cadets by no means work any harder than you would at other GA outfits...especially those out bush!! In fact, you are even able to stay in "civilization" while gaining some really valuable experience and really, if you can't handle the workload at Sharp, you are probably in the wrong industry. With regards to moving on to other companies, there have been enough quality pilots produced through the cadetship that have moved into the larger companies MS stated and therefore have created a good reputation for the future cadets. Of course, nothing is certain, but thats aviation for you.
Good luck with your decision and as MS said, give him a call if you have any questions...he doesn't beat around the bush. :ok:

Wally...haha yes, poor MS is lacking a bit in the hair department but it does give him some character! :p

MS cheers for correcting my information..:ok:


So peugeotboi I’d say mate if you got the money then do it!

If I had the money and knew about when I was looking to start my training I would have done it.

..'pilotette' oh MS is a character alright:-)...........apparently I believe being bald is a real turn on to a certain species of humans, I wouldn't know this of course as I have hair a plenty:} MS always seems to be smiling, me thinks I'm missing something here, well I'm not but I'd like to be!:}

Anyway if you can go by the words being said elsewhere in another thread about the Metro (mostly bad) then these young whipper snippers who step into one with being about as green as a blade of grass deserve some recognition!:ok:



Wmk2:)

The whipper snippers don't know any better, it is the captains that fly with them that deserve the recognition !!

Anyway, for what it is worth I have flown with a couple of blokes who have come from the Sharp cadetship and they were pretty good. Green, yes, but safe, knew their limitations and the way around a metro.

I have worked with a number of young guys that have come through MS operation through the 90s and have all been very well trained. When we lost a pilot to the airlines we would look for one that had been trained by MS. They may have been green but were very good and with a year had moved on to the Airlines. Well done MS.

DU

What do they use for training?

Cessna 172
Cessna 182
Piper Seneca PA34-220T
Fairchild Swearingen Metroliner SA227-AC/DC

SO :}

eh?

So a 172, 182, Seneca and Metro III and 23, is that what you were trying to say...

Effective communication is not one of your strong point's it would seem. :E

They seem to be a good airline and it's a good way in.

Alot of people at my flying school arn't recommending it at all, even my own instructor said its a waste of money, all they do is take you in for your money, once your done trainning they simply tell you "your on your own".

I know malcolm posted, its clear that his going to make his cadetship sound good, but the question is, IF it's a cadetship WHY are cadets paying for it???....in my eyes that doesnt make any sence.

Malcolm if you do read this post please comment, i have one question for you, How many cadets are you taking in for next year and how many applied??

a cert/diploma/degree in aviation is useful when/if you decide to go to uni 10/15 years down the track. however if you do decide to get a diploma.degree you should choose something other than aviation (engineering, commerce or beer making)

Ahh Peugeotboi :) Nobody is holding a gun to your head and saying you must do the Sharp course otherwise you'll never ever be a real pilot. But you have to start asking yourself some questions... Has anyone at your current flying school flown anything bigger than a Cessna 210? Out of those still standing, how many stand to lose out if you decide to do all your training with Sharp rather than at your current flying school... CPL would be at least $50,000 these days? $70,000 by the time you add an instrument rating. Most pilots will have spent 100k by the time they make it to an airline.

"All they do is take you in for your money, once your done trainning they simply tell you "your on your own" - sounds like most flying schools to me ;)

If a commercial license has no guarantee of a job at the end of it, why are people still lining up to pay for it? :)


There's a _LOT_ of things you learn once you get out of your flying school and go in to the real world of GA. MS has put his own name on a product and obviously values it enough to make sure by the time you've left, he's taught you as much as he can about the industry and given you exposure to a multicrew RPT in complex aircraft. The endorsement on the Metro isn't cheap and appears to be the difference between the cost of his course and most schools. He's also giving you a lot of experience in the right seat once you're qualified and paying you for it. Sure the copilot time won't help you get in to the left hand seat for LC-RPT, but you're also not walking away as a 200 hour bare CPL with no people/passenger management skills competing against every other 200 hour CPL for a job.

While it appears to be a good course, I personally think you're missing out if you don't head North and fly 210s to the middle of no where - so many stories to tell which just don't happen in RPT :)

Max age for "cadets"
 

Is there a strict maximum age for cadets or can anyone with the right credentials and obviously enough money embark on one of these?

i just fail to understand why cadets are paying for the course, Its a cadetship, Cadets arn't ment to be paying for there education.

Does anyone know of anyone that has taken up this cadetship?? ovusly only they will know.

Also how many people are they taking in for the 2010 cadetship.

Sadly boi, if you want any type of cadetship with an Australian company, you HAVE to pay. Wether that is right or like in the GA topic it's part of the degenerating conditions is another matter, but in Australia you have to redefine the word cadetship, it's not what the Europeans get.

The benefits are there to different degrees (compare benefits of Rex v Qantas cadetships) but like anything you do miss experiences, same as if you take a GA route or a RAAF route. In the end whichever way you go, with the right attitude you will get wherever you want (that's what I am banking on anyway ;))

You must be new around here. Mate, even Qantas cadets pay for their own training. No such thing as a free ride here in Aus; it's not Asia, you know. :rolleyes:

And gee P boi, have you checked out the cost of any tertiary education in Australia?

- A basic Arts degree is going to have you shelling out several 10's of thousands or several years of HECS debt for a 3 year pass degree....

Nothing is free anymore .

peugeotboi (AA)

I suggest you wind it up now its not doing your application any good! :ugh:

But since you asked and for the record again....ALL cadets get offered 12 months employment and over 19 years we have achieved 85% employment success.

Most cadets are turned away at pre-application point i.e. on receipt of their resume and academic results. We probably get 80-100 per year but I never really count them I just try and pick the best ones.

I am not really concerned about what others think as we have been doing it long enough and have the runs on the board. Most of our cadets work their guts out to get to where they are so you are probably doing them an injustice....I can handle the critisism.

But that is a lesson you will need to learn.....as the others have said there is no free ride in this world son! :O

msharp.

p.s. that smilie looks a bit like me...enough of the hair jokes guys!!!

msharp,

Saw 2 x your Metros at ADL last week great looking ships!

I hope your RPT runs are holding up okay.

Well Done:ok:

Hi all

Does anyone know if REX accept applicants to their cadetships that hold CPL and MECIR, 2 almost 3 ATPL's and about 300hrs??

I'd love to fly something like night freight metros or saabs etc. I know its a long shot but I'm very enthusiastic to get a start ASAP. Working off an endorsement does't bother me. If a contract for 3,4,5 years was put in front of me it'd be signed in about 2.5 sec.

Clinty83

And this is why aviation is in the state its currently in....:ugh:

Sweet looking paint jobs on the Metro's too!

Peugeotboi, are you serious?

j3

Chadzat

I'm sure you also had to start somewhere. If you know of any GA jobs around for people of my level of experience feel free to let me know.

Mate I would, if I knew you, thats kinda how it works, you get talking with people everywhere you go connected to Aviation and something will turn up. Have you had a go at heading West (normally its north but I see you are in Qld)?

Im not having a go at you for being enthusiastic, thats fantastic and it will see you get far. But dont stoop to the lowest level until you have tried everything else first.

You're not going to make too many friends around the place if you go sprouting off about offering to pay for endorsements and especially the ridiculous T's and C's that go with the Rex cadetship.

Well mate I suppose all are entitled to their own opinion. It would suit me a hell of a lot better for family reasons to be able to stay in YBBN. If I'm not successful here then yes I will have to head west, I really want to get out of my current nonflying job just afetr xmas.

Hi Clinty,

I can understand your desire to stay in BN, however, I do not think that it is a possibility. You may be able to be close to BN (3-4 hours drive) but a job in BN with your experience is highly unlikely IMO. I didn't think REX had a BN base anyway?

j3

I know that is mre than likely the case.:) Rex don't have a BN base but I know of two lucky people who landed a job with Pel Air on metros with my hrs. I think Pel Air is a subsidury of REX?? Just hopeful I suppose.

The western ave is looking to be the best option. But it is still very quiet in GA.

Yeah very quiet here.. I've seen four people start new jobs in the past fortnight. :rolleyes: Seen a few other new faces around the place but haven't spoken to them yet.

Not to worry, if the very enthusiastic are all staying in Brisbane, then I guess operators will just have to keep giving the jobs to the unenthusiastic people who find it all too hard to stay in a capital city and have packed up the car to meet and greet operators.

Clinty - do all those guys that got jobs at Pel-Air still have their jobs, because Pel basically closed down it's Metro ops and most of the guys were all given the heave ho.

Even in Virgin and Qantas - BN is one of the hardest bases to get into

Well said Chadzat and Kalavo! :D:D:D

The industry is what it is take it or leave it! (many end up leaving) Knowing people and being in the right place at the right time are the keys. Anyone who thinks they're in for an easy ride is in for a real shock. I think even some of the cadets of various operators are finding that one out. There will be the odd golden boy/girl story but for the majority its not an easy path and there are no real shortcuts. Certainly not ones that won't come back to bite you on the rear end in some form.

FMC.

Surely clinty83 is a windup.

Either that, or you have been badly mislead on the first job front. For all the newbies out there, here are the numbers that you need to be looking at.

First Job
CPL and 200-250hrs+ but the more the better, then all you need to worry about is reaching 1000/200. Meaning 1000hrs TT on a 200 series something similiar (Airvan, Bonanza, etc)

Then you can start thinking about 500/2, or 500 multi engine. Note I said start thinking, 1000hrs doesn't magically gift a job in a twin, could be 800, could be 1500 TT.

Once you have 2000TT and 500 multi, then you can start to look for metro/saab night freight jobs on the east coast.

I'm not being being mean, I'm stating the likely course your career will take. Anything other than this is more an exception than a rule.

To state that you will sign a long term contract and pay off an endorsment just to make life easier will only backfire on you in the longterm, and makes life harder for those more qualified to earn a better wage.

Sorry for asking about if its free, i know nothing is free these days.

i have acouple of friends up in Kuwait and Qatar they're doing a cadetship and they're not paying for it. I just thought l'll ask. I did read on the website of sharp airlines that you do have to pay, but i thought l'll ask in general.


malcolm, i guarantee you that i will work harder then any cadet you've came across, i just hope you give me that chance to prove so.


thank you.

thanks minger, coz I aint changing my handle to "the air up their" sounds a little suss.