Women in Aviation???
 

My question to you all is where do women in this industry stand? It seems many GA operators aren't that fond of the furry logbook. Some operators have an unofficial "No chicks policy" ~ is this founded?
:confused: :confused: :p :confused: :confused:

I have to say the pilot I regard as the best overall is a woman. I was fortunate enough to employ her yrs back, carry out a few endorsements, CIR renewals, be endorsed on aircraft by her, supervise her as an instructor and she flew with me as an F/O.
She is now a captain on bigger newer and faster aircraft than I and I bet she is doing it exceptionally well.


On the other hand I have the misfortune of flying with some of the worst, I would never employ them, doubt whether they would prove themselves competent to achieve an endorsement or pass a CIR, and as for instructing, I feel for the pilots who are trained by them. They are the ones who p[;ossibly have a few stamps in the "furry logbook".

No different to men just have to sort out the good from the bad in the interview process.

Danger zone...
 

The laws of liable and the potential for litigation ensures that I tender my comments cautiously, however:-

I have found 1 female pilot over the years that has worked out. She was brilliant! Apart from that well er um er um er um I take the fith ammendment...

Can't help myself... The general public seem to like female pilots, and I must say that it is good to have female pilots in the working environment, like anything though it is the quality of pilot that counts. Gender is not an issue...

:cool: :cool: :cool:

:D :D :D

This topic is fraught with danger.....Bit like skipping through a minefield.

I was actually taught through the PPL by a female instructor, who was:

1. A great instructor
2. A good friend
3. A lady.

The individual in question is now an FO for a major airline!
Abilty and talent as HA said is the key.....
And I must have learned something from her as Im still here.

Id hate to see the days when quotas replace ability as the norm....

For the rest of the girls Ive met, some have been great aviators and great PEOPLE. Some didn't need to be able to fly except maybe undo one...... :eek: :eek: :eek:

But then again its really the individual. It certainly aint brain power that seperates the sexes, maybe a little physical strength and endurance...For those jobs requiring physical prowess a bloke will generally be better..


And I so advise...

I have met some great female pilot
and I have met some "GREAT" female pilots;) :D :eek:

That said why did a female pilot land wheels up three times in different aircraft and still keep her job??
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Its a bit like asking 'are short pilots better than tall pilots?' All depends on the person. I guess as women are a minority in aviation it is easier to judge them.

My first instructor was a lady who was brilliant, but ive also seen some shockers. Again, all depends on the person :)

Women in this industry stand on their own two feet supported (or not) by their own ability. Like any other person.

My initial instructor was a female, the one that did my CSU retract was a female and the one that did my second twin endo was a female, all very good instructors and very nice people. I have a friend that owns a flying school and another one that had a PPL when I started flying that now drives twin turbines and yet another one that had a basic CPL about the time I got mine that is now driving twin turbines. one of my lecturers at collage was (and is) a very competant and knowladgable examiner of airmen. Out of all these people, only one has been silly enough to eat those very colourful earplugs thinking they were lollies provided by the company. :D but she made up for that by wearing the nicest tee shirts in class when we were studying (although it did make study hard).
I only know of one woman (that I know) has used the hairy logbook to advance her career (and she was a looker, I would have gladly employed her).
It is totally dependent on the person not the persons sex, I have met, by far, more silly blokes in this game that women, any way you wanna work the ratio.

mmmm. so someone explain to me how a "female pilot" landed a job in Mount Isa with a straight CPL & MECIR. Couldn't have had more than 200TT.

now flying PIC in a C206 and F/O on their Bandit. :eek:

everyone I know that visited said company was told 1000 to 1500TT.

I am SURE it was based on her ability. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

bring on the minefield...... :p

Well said Suspicious.

I also heard about this low time female in Mount Isa.

Way back in about 1988 I missed out on a job. The job was given to a female by the chief pilot who was trying to get down "her pants". So I heard from other company pilots.

I was ready for an immediate start however they gave me the usual "not enough hours for insurance" bull.

This female had similar hours to me and did not even have her dangerous goods. She was told the job is her once if she can get her dangerous goods certificate over the weekend.

I already had a current dangerous good certificate

:mad:

About that time I also came across another very manipulative female pilot who had gone out with a few senior pilots in her time to rapidly progress her career.

Some people employ "furry resumes" whilst some women use a "furry resume to get a job".

Not all employers/females are so corrupt but unfortunately it does happen occasionally.

a fury (perhaps furious) :eek: one or a furry (careless with the grooming) ;) one?

So HA, how is your latest female pilot going?

Damn it I hate it when I get employees that I don't know about...

Whats her name???

Looks like I may have been misinformed - had heard a certain female pilot working in BRM last year had landed a job with NAC? I guess you would know!

TL

Funny thing about a woman willing to further her career using the furry logbook.It takes an employer who is (Let us say) willing to inspect this type of log book for a woman to gain any advantage.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am quite sure that 99.9% of these employers would be male.Just an observation, but it goes to show that men do get to take advantage of the furry log book and are just as guilty of perpetuating this type of behaviour.
To the .1% of you employerina's out there,all I can say is You GO Girlfriend.
:D ;)

When I saw the Thread Title, I was kinda hoping it would be about the positive contribution women make to aviation.

I got into trouble in a recent thread by bringing up WW2, but if it weren't for all of those young women ferry pilots, delivering everything from Spitfires, Lancasters, B17, etc, often solo from the factory or overseas, things would've taken a whole lot longer as the men were being consumed at a prodigious rate.
And that's just one example.

But I digress,
What Big Jan say's,
IMHO just about sums it up.

If you are breaking your neck to work for suchlike or feel dissappointed because you couldn't get the "advantage" yourself in that manner, may I suggest that you are either in the wrong profession or looking for work in the wrong places.

Ask your mum, wife or girlfriend what she would think about such an employer??
Even more important still, how your work colleagues would feel about it.
I have never ever seen a situation like that, which was not ultimately destructive to the people involved.

Bagot. "And she didn't even have her dangerous goods"!

Some chief pilots like women who have dangerous goods - but it all depends on what you mean by "dangerous goods"....:D

PLEASE NOTE: The following comment is purely for entertainment value (sic) and will be denied if ever asked.


My boss recently told me that he will "NEVER hire another woman pilot".

Ok how many males pilots have been hired by flashin' the furry log book? :eek:

IF WOMEN WERE MENT TO FLY THE SKY WOULD BE PINK NOT BLUE!!!!

Yeah Woodrobm, and if the sky belonged to men it would be beer scented and the clouds would be shaped like naked playboy models.

Whats wrong with that?

Nothing I guess - could even look good against the pink sky background. Throw in a couple of male centrefold types and we've got a deal.

Now why do I get the impression that this thread is rapidly heading for Jet Blast? :D

clouds
 

Hi foyl

I saw a cloud in the shape of an imperial stormtrooper once!

:D :D :D :D :D

i spoke to one of the few women pilots i came across in Darwin GA about the benefits of being female in this job.
her opinion - in GA - distinct DISadvantage
- beyond GA - distinct ADvantage

she's probably in the latter group now - good luck

One of the first femal pilots I met was years ago, if I had my logbook I could tell you when exactly.

Around 93/94 I was working in the Daly River / Port Keats area, Hardy Aviation had a base a Port Keats a rather quiet Aboriginal community for those of you who don't know. A female pilot persisted and persisted until she was based there and did a bl**dy good job if it. Has been on the heavy metal for a while now. LT - drop me a message if you get this.

HA.

I can safely say that I have met FAR more absolute fr!ckin drongo MALE pilots than female, more than likely to do with ratios of male to female licence holders I am sure. However most of the female pilots I have had the pleasure to fly with were excellent pilots.

The "hairy logbook" exists without doubt, but I am sure that its use, ACTUAL use, is not as prevelant as we think.

We all have heard, and most likely said, at some stage that a certain female pilot has been guilty of using the "hairy logbook"

Women immediately stand out in the pilot community due to their vast minority( and the fact they are better to look at than hairy blokes!) just in the same way that male F/A's do in the cabin.

Best of luck to all that wish to make a career of this crazy flying game I say!

It is a hard enough road without the gender based bullsh!t.

Cheers all,

I'm gone!

Wot sort of Parker pen time would you write in a furry log-book?

Woomera, Thanks for saying something sensible. A close family friend flew Lancasters in England during the war. Also the odd spitfire. She flew into many a dangerous situation and, as far as I can make out, the women who did this were invaluable to the war effort. There were no "furry" logbooks then just brave, capable women who were respected for the job they did. Her husband was a fighter pilot in the RAF. She later took up gliding in Aus where she continued to do very well. There were quite a few women flying aircraft in WW2 at a time when it was not accepted in society for them to do so. Sometimes, when I read these forums I don't think the lot of women aviators has progressed at all. But then the problem is not with the women it is with the men in the industry who feel threatened by being around capable and intelligent women and whose only defence seems to deride and denigrate. Poor little boys.

Karma is alive & well in aviation
 

I've always wondered why more of these alleged casting couch scenarios don't backfire on people. Suppose that the CP or whomever it is that puts the 'hard word' on a pilot does the business so to speak, then still does not offer them a job. Who do they go running to then? Kind of like an armed hold up "hand over the money or I'll shoot'', you could still hand over the cash & still get shot.

I'd be interested to know what the min hrs requirement for pilots is for the insurance company used by the MtIsa mob? Thought most GA companies were 500-1000. How did they get around that one? Incidentally, how did they explain to you why the other pilot go the job over you?

Bagot Yes that sucks but fate can be a strange thing. It may have been to your advantage that happened who knows. Sometimes it's not 'til years later you realise this.

A bonafide answer to a future interview question ''what's the most disappointing thing that's happened to you in your career''? I would be hesitant make any reference to gender in your answer - they will work it out. The fact that you took it on the chin, got on with life without harbouring any grudges and applied yourself in your current position will say a lot more.

Would you feel any better if it was a male pilot with 200hrs that gazumped you because daddy was a mate of the CP. Probably not.

Wonder what this MtIsa pilot would say in any future airline interviews when asked by the panel ''how did you get your last job on turbine with just 200 hours in the logbook''? This maybe her downfall next time and your windfall.

May have been Confucius who said: ''the law may sleep but never dies''. :cool: :cool:

I have flown with many female pilots over the years, and there is only one whom I would trust to fly my mother around. She is an exceptional pilot, (no not my mother) and would easily be in the top 10% of pilots I have flown with. The rest of the female pilots I have flown with would be in the lower 20%.

Ever watched a female skydiver try to land a parachute, it is generally not very pretty.

Women are just not mentally equipped as well as men to fly planes, you can yell and screem about it as much as you like, but you cannot change our basic makeup.

Basically women fly planes like they park cars. Very few do it well. However the car does eventually get parked!

Well I guess it depens on the CRM you have at your working place. If I was to sit next to Spinnerhead I'd most probably also be in the lower 20% for him, as he seems to be too narrow-minded to give a female Pilots a chance.

I like to have mixed flight deck crews, because I can help my male colleages out in situations where "they just are not menally as well equipped as I am". We do have a different way of looking at things, noticing them and reacting, but for staying in the loop it broadens the overview of the situation if our CRM is as good to wish to share and accept the comments from both sides. Together we are great!

Cheers

Over the years Ive met alot of female pilots and must say alot of them would **** all over the boys coming from flying schools these days.
The company i work for used too do scenics at the rock and we had sometimes upto 4 Girls there at a time,The reason why was too get people in seats you would have to get friendly with the bus driver.Soo If you are a mid aged bus driver and a lovely young female pilot comes up to you and smiles and askes is there any one for a scenic ,what do you reckon happens?The other company down there at the time (all male pilots) couldnt compete.
You can tell the ones who used the furry log book then the girls who really did work for what they had.
Had a Citation here in alice on friday female F/0,Nice girl but crikeys been with the company 8 weeks 310 /chieftan and citation indorssment she told us quiet proudlly I must say.
If I was a chick with a good rack and a nice ass I would use it too my best advantage.

Miss Behaviour
 

I have to agree with you, in the end it maybe was to my advantage that I did not get the job and a few months later I found something better.

However it was very annoying at the time after I had spent so many years looking for work and came very close to actually getting my first job.

What about the...
 

Ok, I realise that this is not strictly on the topic but....

Has anyone ever met any gay pilots?
I dont think i have ever heard of a professional pilot who was also gay...... Except for those in 70's porno's with the standard mo.:p

Notlandung

I am astounded that in this day and age the topic is even a matter for discussion - I agree with the respondent who made the analogy with short pilots v tall pilots.

Why not start to make it really apolitical.

How many Aboriginal pilots are there?

Watching a war doco the other day and it reminds you of how long female pilots have been flying. Really what is the point, if you qualify for the lic then you've got a liscense.

I think the topic is more on the side of who uses what to gain competitive advantages.

HA...

Go ahead and tell us HA how many aboriginal pilots are there?
I have met one in Darwin and he was a nice bloke that was ten years or so ago he should be the top dog in Q by now.

Well, since we are going to get all political, I havnt met an aboriginal pilot yet. I have had about four that I have talked into getting grants to do the CPL course and they all dropped out within three weeks. I employ aboriginal people almost every week and apart from about three (out of about thirty) they almost always last about three to five days, then want a cheque, then wont be seen again for about two weeks(when the $$$ runs out). they are almost always excelent stockmen. the people that I assisted get grants were well educated and clever people....... It was just easier to go the way they wanted to go.

ADVERTISMENT, I am happy to interview all those ladies interested in using the furry log book to assist the job aplication. ( I actually dont have a position available at the moment, but will interview for future positions) :D

I realise this is off the topic but Aboriginal pilots, well come on guys lets not really go pissin in people's pockets cause **** me its like tryin to fit a a square in a round hole, i think there may have been a dude in the war, seen some blag magic poster at centrelink once, kinda like communitys usin ther money resourcefully,

and on the topic of women pilots, its not that big an issue just as has been said, they are minority(in aviation industry) and there abilty shows irresepective of gender, as they are soon found out in the real world if theyare not up to srcatch, just ask some people about recent activites in the kimberelys

c u