Radio/ATC etiquette and professionalism
 

Random topic up for discussion or your views would be appreciated

What do you think makes the airline industry have amazing radio etiquette and professionalism?

Would it be the training provided? The professionalism/ideology held in aviation? Comes down to the person?

And do you think if you aren't professional on the 2-way how can it be instilled into a person?


Thank you

Clearly you're not referring to practice in the USA.

More seriously, it's safety. Using ICAO standard phraseology gives a better chance of everyone understanding each other, including people who use English as a second or professional language.

Also with the increasing use of CPDLC, voice comms are gradually reducing and most datalink messages are preformatted to ICAO standard, with limited freetext.

Behind, line up behind, behind.

Checked.

When we were working on the initial message sets for CPDLC (South Pacific FANS1 1993-96) the most exciting part was that, at last, there would be a standard set of phraseology that could not be "tailored" for personal wishes. Of the four airlines involved (NZ, UA, QF and CX) guess which one voiced concern the the free text option was difficult to access.

Gne

What’s with all the East Coast clowns making sheep noises constantly on 121.5?

I hear some pretty bad RT, one of my pet hates is "Affirmative" and people broadcasting in the third person "ABC lines up" etc


It's not difficult to learn and all in the AIP.

Meow.

:ugh:

VIA THE STAR DAMNIT

People are copycats. If only one generation starts to be "correct", the next generation will follow. So as long as American instructors are "coming down" with the transponder and "howzdaride-ing", American students will copy the cool instructors and captains without hesitating. He's cool, he's doing it, I'm doing it, now I'm cool as well.

Doesn't take out the personality psychology: some people just like standards less than others.

Not meaning to bash on the American culture specifically by the way, every culture has their "I'm part of the gang"-slang.

Many years ago I used to do ATC. I will admit to being a bit 'relaxed' on the radio on occasions when I knew it would not cause any problems for anyone and was equally happy if those on the other end of comms were similarly relaxed at times. Life without a little bit of variation or fun can be decidedly dull.

However, when it got busy, there were non-native speakers on frequency or someone had a problem, I went 100% standard phraseology as did the vast majority of others on frequency. For me, it's a matter of professionalism - knowing when it has to be done right....and doing it right. Some may differ and believe that it should be done right all the time, and I really couldn't argue with that position. But not recognising when it need to be done right, or simply never doing it right, is unprofessional.

BraceBrace has it correct when it comes to monkey see, monkey do, and if someone never learns what is correct in the first place, they will never be able to demonstrate professionalism when it is absolutely necessary.

Even the sheep noises?

Firstly, professional flyers will (should!) have had formal training and testing, so that is the foundation. Secondly, I believe, it is because there is an international, standardised phraseology and structure. Simultaneous two-way conversations aren't possible, so practicality (and etiquette?) necessitates one transmission needs to clearly finish before the other half of the conversation can respond.

As has already been hinted at here, a notable number of the radio users of one nation don't seem to be capable of sticking to standard phraseology or brevity. They remind me of people hunched over a bar counter, yapping excessively and mindlessly. Such verbiage is often replete with truncated phrases and colloquialisms, that often need effort to decipher, and this can certainly hamper those whose first languge is not English!

Some of the ATCOs of the same nation also appear to revel in trying to talk at the speed of light, creating a difficult time for those on the receiving end of the transmissions. Once again, it creates an issue for many, and a real problem for second-language aviators.

I accept that there will be occasions when a situation demands going outside the standard phraseology, perhaps in an effort to clarify intent behind an instruction, or resolving a particularly unusual situation. Sometimes a measured, calm, conversational, plain English sentence or two can provide comfort to someone in peril. But the majority of transmissions should really use ICAO standard words, phrases and structure, so that all on the frequency can modify their situational awareness, as required.

I won't get started on another nation that appears to believe that it's citizens can dispense with waiting their turn, continually butting in to transmissions already in progress.

Now now.... Surely you're not suggesting that we all apply a bit of commen sense to our daily operations.... and suggesting that at times it's okay to be relaxed , enjoy our work but, (obviously) there are times when that's not appropriate???
Sir (mam)..? umm .. There is nothing written in my space shuttle launch manual for what you describe.

Not all of them.
Most of the guard police are airline pilots.
That behavior is unprofessional and Superfluous

“Roll the trucks”. What the actual phuck? Anytime I hear some moron say that during an emergency I think “what kind of airline industry allows that sort of clown culture to exist?”

‘Murica. ‘Nuff said yanks.

I'd say the ongoing sim checks and standardisation. Try some of the truckie UHF banter on a sim check and see how well you do. If you wouldn't do it in the box, you won't do it on the line. Usually. Pilots are usually fairly sensible and safe operators by their nature, and when told to do something 'for safety reasons' (ie standardised radio phrases and the like), readily accept that as part of their SOP's.

That being said, there is a place for a 'relaxed but not unsafe' culture on the radio where situations permit, but it needs to be tempered with caution, in my experience. Those ATC'ers are usually a damn sight faster-thinking than yours truly, so it's pretty hard to get one over on 'em if you're gonna have a lark, but simple politeness "BN CTR, good morning Alpha Bravo Charlie maintaining FL170" costs nothing except an extra second of airtime, even though it's not in the AIP. "Center on 123.75, 'ave a good one, g'day" likewise. "BN CTR Alpha Bravo Charlie request...." again, not strictly in accordance with the AIP, but it lets the ACTO get ready for a 'non-standard' phrase about to come their way and can avoid you having to repeat it, and if your request is granted, a thank you with your acknowledgement is deserved. Again, not per the AIP, but it takes all of 1 second and lets the lass/lad at the other end know you're appreciative of their efforts.

The concern I have is if they're not professional enough on the radio, what else in their role aren't they taking seriously - and how do you police it? The ATCO's don't have the time to 'dob in' every unprofessional weekend warrior on the radio, and even in a two-crew operation, no one wants to be 'that person' who dobs in their fellow crewmember.

Sometimes the text option can be handy….. The default option only gives you answers relevant to the question.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....544a0af90b.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6e8583e2d0.jpg

“United 941, Qantas 429 on guard…..”
”You’re on guard” 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Ummmm there’s a reason it’s said that way and if you got down off your high horse you’d see it.


pssst…we can me monitoring 3 VHF frequencies at once and it’s handy to know which one they are calling on isn’t it :D

What is it about the NSW and QLD areas with all the stupid Cat and Sheep calls on 121.5………sounds like a turboprop aircraft radio to me…….come on grow up people…….

apologies this has been covered above but it really pisses me off the stupidity and childishness of some “professional Pilots”

Stop it, you know who you are.