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-   -   Radio/ATC etiquette and professionalism (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/654130-radio-atc-etiquette-professionalism.html)

Capt Fathom 11th Aug 2023 10:59


Originally Posted by ACMS (Post 11482858)
Ummmm there’s a reason it’s said that way and if you got down off your high horse you’d see it.

I think you missed it ACMS!

ACMS 11th Aug 2023 13:20

The way I read it he was poking fun at the QF guy for transmitting on guard and saying “on guard”, he was implying it wasn’t a needed comment hence he put the slapping face emoji in there……..
I don’t agree with his assessment and I’ve stated why.

he is being a smart ass basically.

NGsim 11th Aug 2023 19:17

Well you read it very very wrong.

Una Due Tfc 11th Aug 2023 19:25

Best bit of advice I got from my on the job instructor when doing my initial ATCO training was "the busier the sector, the slower you need to speak. It reduces repeats/corrections, and gives you time to think".

Rick2023 11th Aug 2023 21:33

Also sticking the microphone inside your throat or up against your lips may feel comforting but it just results in comms that are overloaded with interference and basically unintelligible.

Ever seen someone push the mic closer to their mouth and exasperatedly exhort their precious words even more badly?

That's hhwwhaaat I'm talking about.


ACMS 11th Aug 2023 23:17


Originally Posted by NGsim (Post 11483158)
Well you read it very very wrong.

Well then you need to express yourself a little better I’d say.

NGsim 12th Aug 2023 00:39


Originally Posted by ACMS (Post 11483250)
Well then you need to express yourself a little better I’d say.

Cpt. Fathom seemed to pick up what I was saying with relative ease.
But correct, it’s all me good sir……

421dog 12th Aug 2023 02:51

Just flew across the central third of the US today (about 930 mi) with a bit of weather diversion) on a single leg, and heard what sounded like the same guy say “On guard” three times while I was monitoring 121.5 when I wasn’t doing anything else over the 3.5 hr flight.
Radio works fine, never heard any other Guard transmissions, center didn’t seem to be looking for anybody.
(Truly, the biggest reason I monitor [other than regs] it is to help center find the RJ’s that miss their handoffs)

Should we consider the term “Radio Karens”?

421dog 12th Aug 2023 03:01

Parenthetically,
i would Postulate that “Position and Hold”

(After stating “ready for takeoff”)
is more descriptive than “Line up and Wait” (which might indicate to the uninitiated to do something else before getting out on the runway as instructed)

Captain Dart 12th Aug 2023 04:39

Got called by an Asian Air Defence controller in a reasonably sensitive area on Guard one day. I started to respond with position and details (all legit). Could hardly get a further word in edgeways after the Guard Police erupted 🙄.

ChrisJ800 12th Aug 2023 06:04

Always used to recognise Niki Lauda when he flew into Sydney...

Lead Balloon 12th Aug 2023 07:17


Originally Posted by 421dog (Post 11483295)
Parenthetically,
i would Postulate that “Position and Hold”

(After stating “ready for takeoff”)
is more descriptive than “Line up and Wait” (which might indicate to the uninitiated to do something else before getting out on the runway as instructed)

I thought the FAA changed from "Position and Hold" to "Line up and Wait" over a decade ago because the former phraseology was causing confusion. For my part, "Line up and Wait" makes a lot more sense than "Position and Hold".



421dog 12th Aug 2023 07:52


Originally Posted by Lead Balloon (Post 11483340)
I thought the FAA changed from "Position and Hold" to "Line up and Wait" over a decade ago because the former phraseology was causing confusion. For my part, "Line up and Wait" makes a lot more sense than "Position and Hold".

They did, presumably because of the confusion it was causing the non-FAA pilots who were coming over and flying in our airspace 😎

They also took away our succinct flight plan forms (for domestic use) and imposed universal ICAO idiocy about the same time.

Lead Balloon 12th Aug 2023 08:07

I'm not saying ICAO is perfect - far from it - but...

When we analyse basic grammar, the words "position" and "hold" are capable of a variety of meanings - they can be nouns and verbs - but the words "line up" and "wait" have fewer meanings. English-speaking countries are generally the worst at it, these days.

421dog 12th Aug 2023 09:19


Originally Posted by Lead Balloon (Post 11483363)
I'm not saying ICAO is perfect - far from it - but...

When we analyse basic grammar, the words "position" and "hold" are capable of a variety of meanings - they can be nouns and verbs - but the words "line up" and "wait" have fewer meanings. English-speaking countries are generally the worst at it, these days.

yep.
But we have more ops than the rest of you guys combined, and somehow “english” ended up as the international language of aviation, and everybody wants to fly in our airspace, so we’ll do our best to accommodate you.


Lead Balloon 12th Aug 2023 10:33

This is where people from English-speaking countries would say: "I couldn't care less", because the rules about aviation air-to-air- phraseology turn out to be what they happen to be from time to time and we'll all just get on with complying with them.

But in the good ol' USA, I'm apparently supposed to say: "I could care less", in order to convey my intention that I couldn't care less. Go figure.

Eric T Cartman 12th Aug 2023 11:16

Potential for error if used casually ?
Position and hold > Position and roll
Line up and hold > Line up and roll
Line up and wait > Line up zero eight

Mogwi 12th Aug 2023 12:10

One of the worst cases of R/T indiscipline I heard was one dark and busy night at JFK when the ground controller shouted
“OK, EVRYBODDYSHADDUP!!!!!!”
Said it all really.

Mog

Katamarino 12th Aug 2023 13:05


Originally Posted by ACMS (Post 11483250)
Well then you need to express yourself a little better I’d say.

I think the problem is with you. What he wrote was perfectly clear.

ehwatezedoing 12th Aug 2023 15:40


Originally Posted by 421dog (Post 11483384)
yep.
But we have more ops than the rest of you guys combined, and somehow “english” ended up as the international language of aviation, and everybody wants to fly in our airspace, so we’ll do our best to accommodate you.

Nah! The other way around, it's the rest of the world who is trying to accommodate you by using English as international language :p



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