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-   The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions-91/)
-   -   Skytrans not happy about the competition (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/653656-skytrans-not-happy-about-competition.html)

Cloudee 14th Jul 2023 07:50

So could it be that cameras were installed to use in a campaign against a competitor rather than to check if the runway is wet? Pretty average behaviour if so.

CAVOK92 14th Jul 2023 09:27


Originally Posted by Cloudee (Post 11467169)
So could it be that cameras were installed to use in a campaign against a competitor rather than to check if the runway is wet? Pretty average behaviour if so.

Maybe hinterland should request access to the footage. That way they know if their boys are doing as they should and touching down on the piano keys. Might even get some good footage of a skytrans machine overrunning after one of their high approaches.😂

cabzjet 15th Jul 2023 01:38


Originally Posted by Dry_Twotter (Post 11467141)
Hinterland GM and HOFO are brave boys thinking that their piece of paper gets them around the P135 and the C208 POH.

Probably something that you’d want to run by the punters in the back, wouldn’t you say?

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d64736e898.jpg

Ixixly 15th Jul 2023 07:32

Yes, a Test Pilot does it and then those figures are adjusted for an average Pilot because of course they don't expect you to fly it like a Test Pilot. If you want to go landing on an Airstrip prior to the numbers on a section of ground that isn't part of the regular inspections required to approve that Airstrip, you go right ahead, but when you hit a hole that no one knew about don't be surprised when you're the one responsible.

aussieflyboy 15th Jul 2023 08:24


Originally Posted by Ixixly (Post 11467696)
Yes, a Test Pilot does it and then those figures are adjusted for an average Pilot because of course they don't expect you to fly it like a Test Pilot. If you want to go landing on an Airstrip prior to the numbers on a section of ground that isn't part of the regular inspections required to approve that Airstrip, you go right ahead, but when you hit a hole that no one knew about don't be surprised when you're the one responsible.

Must be hard for you to land on a dirt strip in the Kimberley or Territory champ.

Mach E Avelli 15th Jul 2023 10:21


Originally Posted by Ixixly (Post 11467696)
Yes, a Test Pilot does it and then those figures are adjusted for an average Pilot because of course they don't expect you to fly it like a Test Pilot. If you want to go landing on an Airstrip prior to the numbers on a section of ground that isn't part of the regular inspections required to approve that Airstrip, you go right ahead, but when you hit a hole that no one knew about don't be surprised when you're the one responsible.

Did someone suggest landing "on a section of ground" that presumably is off the airstrip?
No, what is suggested is that, on a really short strip, no bush pilot who wants to maximise the margins is going to waste valuable stopping distance by flying large air transport 50 ft heights at the threshold, then relying on maximum braking to compensate for being only average and maybe landing a bit longer than the test pilot did.
50 ft looks bloody high when you have only a few hundred metres to get down and stopped.
If we were to scale things down according to aircraft size and responsiveness, 15ft would probably feel right for most pilots and provide adequate clearance 'over the fence', but no, in aviation we often use arbitrary numbers because it's easier for the rule makers. The rule makers are not out there doing it in the weeds.

Dry_Twotter 16th Jul 2023 05:01

The ignorance shown in this thread astounding. It certainly puts the Hinterland HOFO in the unenviable position of having to support his ill-advised GM [CAVOK92 + burners] who’s gone rouge on a pilot rumour network.

Some advice: you are attempting to push your way into the Torres Strait; a high skill, high intensity environment with several very experienced operators who, despite the local challenges, manage to keep the good people of the TS safe on a daily basis.

Rather than coming on here and telling us all we have no idea what we’re doing, perhaps a good place to start would be:
  • take a closer look at the Cessna Caravan POH and Part 135 to realise the legal risk you actually have chosen to adopt,
  • talk to some people who know something about short runways,
  • get some organic, ticket-based runs on the board, and;
  • Stop inventing rumours, avoid the temptation of congratulating yourself from your own account and adopt some humility.

At the end of the day this “opposition” you speak of may well be the people you’ll be thanking later for spotting you in the ocean.

CAVOK92 16th Jul 2023 08:17

Iv never had someone try and name me on a forum before. Is that even in the rules?
Be rest assured that I am not associated with the blue shed, infact the only people I know around Cairns work in the red shed. Never the less I am just someone that is out of GA who is taking pleasure in listening to the scuttlebutt that is being thrown between an organisation that appears to have a full understanding of the new regulation and one that didn’t bother to read them, and when they (he) did still can’t see where they went wrong.

Dry_Twotter 16th Jul 2023 08:22


Originally Posted by Dry_Twotter (Post 11468249)
The ignorance shown in this thread astounding. It certainly puts the Hinterland HOFO in the unenviable position of having to support his ill-advised GM [CAVOK92 + burners] who’s gone rouge on a pilot rumour network.

Some advice: you are attempting to push your way into the Torres Strait; a high skill, high intensity environment with several very experienced operators who, despite the local challenges, manage to keep the good people of the TS safe on a daily basis.

Rather than coming on here and telling us all we have no idea what we’re doing, perhaps a good place to start would be:
  • take a closer look at the Cessna Caravan POH and Part 135 to realise the legal risk you actually have chosen to adopt,
  • talk to some people who know something about short runways,
  • get some organic, ticket-based runs on the board, and;
  • Stop inventing rumours, avoid the temptation of congratulating yourself from your own account and adopt some humility.

At the end of the day this “opposition” you speak of may well be the people you’ll be thanking later for spotting you in the ocean.

Read again.

43Inches 16th Jul 2023 08:50


I don't see what all the fuss is about, you just roll to a stop.

PS I don't think they crossed the threshold at 50ft, and that didn't look like touching down 300m into the runway. I also reckon that approach was a tad steeper than 3 degrees.

Mach E Avelli 16th Jul 2023 09:38


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11468342)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ojt-zS5IaQ

I don't see what all the fuss is about, you just roll to a stop.

PS I don't think they crossed the threshold at 50ft, and that didn't look like touching down 300m into the runway. I also reckon that approach was a tad steeper than 3 degrees.

Very nice; touched down on the numbers just beyond the piano keys. Slightly steep (about 4.5 degrees) approach works much better on short fields than the flat drag-it-in technique sometimes seen. Pilots confusing precautionary landings taught in some flight schools with serious short field techniques perhaps?
Oh and while I am on my soapbox, forget all about the Jacobsen flare and other theory like looking down the runway during the flare, particularly when you need to get it on early. Pick your touchdown spot and look at it. You go where you look. Of course look up during the rollout, but doing so too early always seems to prolong the touchdown.




Mach E Avelli 16th Jul 2023 11:09


Originally Posted by Cloudee (Post 11467169)
So could it be that cameras were installed to use in a campaign against a competitor rather than to check if the runway is wet? Pretty average behaviour if so.

How clever are these cameras? Can they differentiate between dry, damp and wet? Are they an approved method for determining runway condition?
Just asking.

Left 270 16th Jul 2023 11:57


Originally Posted by CAVOK92 (Post 11466543)
Only heard good things about working for PC and Hinterland.
Can’t comment about working for Skytrans but if they had their head in the sand about the new Part135 requirement I’m sure it says a lot about how it is being managed currently. Maybe the CP should keep his dress ups and take on being a tradie instead 😂.

You’ve not been around the right people I’d have to suggest, sure he has his fan club, but he’s as scummy as any of the operators I came across in GA.

the_rookie 16th Jul 2023 13:54


Originally Posted by Left 270 (Post 11468474)
You’ve not been around the right people I’d have to suggest, sure he has his fan club, but he’s as scummy as any of the operators I came across in GA.

Getting your super paid is a privilege and not a right apparently

Mach E Avelli 16th Jul 2023 22:12


Originally Posted by the_rookie (Post 11468512)
Getting your super paid is a privilege and not a right apparently

If so, here is a guaranteed way to get it up to date and not get sacked. Or if you do get sacked, have some fun with a wrongful dismissal case at no cost to you. If they claim redundancy is the reason, you can prevent them from subsequent hiring until you are reinstated.
First, if not already a member, join the AFAP. Yes, they are a bit weak in some areas, but they have excellent free legal help available for members.
Then put your employer on notice that they have 14 days to get your super up to date, or you will notify the ATO.
If they don’t pay on time send them a final warning.
If they cry poor or whatever, remind them that it’s your money and that you are not in the loans business. Tell them that you WILL be reporting them to the ATO.
Then DO IT, advising them that you have done so - this gives them one last opportunity to pay up and have you call off the wolves. It is important to be seen at every stage to have been transparent and reasonable. Of course some bosses will still brand you as Bolshevik, but they are just germs you sometimes find in this business.
Not only did this once work for me, I got the super plus interest, and ended up with a very compliant employer.
Pilots need to p!ss or get off the pot.

43Inches 16th Jul 2023 22:52


Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli (Post 11468656)
If so, here is a guaranteed way to get it up to date and not get sacked. Or if you do get sacked, have some fun with a wrongful dismissal case at no cost to you. If they claim redundancy is the reason, you can prevent them from subsequent hiring until you are reinstated.
First, if not already a member, join the AFAP. Yes, they are a bit weak in some areas, but they have excellent free legal help available for members.
Then put your employer on notice that they have 14 days to get your super up to date, or you will notify the ATO.
If they don’t pay on time send them a final warning.
If they cry poor or whatever, remind them that it’s your money and that you are not in the loans business. Tell them that you WILL be reporting them to the ATO.
Then DO IT, advising them that you have done so - this gives them one last opportunity to pay up and have you call off the wolves. It is important to be seen at every stage to have been transparent and reasonable. Of course some bosses will still brand you as Bolshevik, but they are just germs you sometimes find in this business.
Not only did this once work for me, I got the super plus interest, and ended up with a very compliant employer.
Pilots need to p!ss or get off the pot.

Мир, хлеб и земля, Comrade!

Mach E Avelli 17th Jul 2023 03:53


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11468669)
Мир, хлеб и земля, Comrade!

Ah yes, the last two I have. As for the first, unlikely we will ever achieve that...But thanks anyway.

Lead Balloon 17th Jul 2023 08:19

A GM who's "gone rouge"? Once they start wearing make-up, it's a dead giveaway they've lost the plot.

Cedrik 18th Jul 2023 04:37


Originally Posted by Lead Balloon (Post 11468835)
A GM who's "gone rouge"? Once they start wearing make-up, it's a dead giveaway they've lost the plot.

:8 :D

Cedrik 18th Jul 2023 04:39


Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli (Post 11468371)
Very nice; touched down on the numbers just beyond the piano keys. Slightly steep (about 4.5 degrees) approach works much better on short fields than the flat drag-it-in technique sometimes seen. Pilots confusing precautionary landings taught in some flight schools with serious short field techniques perhaps?
Oh and while I am on my soapbox, forget all about the Jacobsen flare and other theory like looking down the runway during the flare, particularly when you need to get it on early. Pick your touchdown spot and look at it. You go where you look. Of course look up during the rollout, but doing so too early always seems to prolong the touchdown.

I find it best just to land the aircraft :8


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