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-   -   Another weather related ? Crash in North Queensland (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/652164-another-weather-related-crash-north-queensland.html)

Capt Fathom 4th Jul 2023 06:07

Crashing aircraft is not the sole domain of the young and unlicensed!

red_dirt 4th Jul 2023 07:18


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11415425)
One aeroclub where he did early training said that he did not complete his training with them and it sounds like the bulls have run with he didn't complete any training. Does not mean he didn't go elsewhere and complete the licence.

Well the ATSB said he didnt hold a licence soooooo……..

PoppaJo 4th Jul 2023 09:44


I am not so crass to say he deserved what happened, but you just can't tell some people.
If it wasn't this accident, it would have been another, 30 hours is nothing and one has not even had Navigation training at that point. You would need to question if the male had any further intention to conduct any further flying at all with a training school, he had his own aircraft, the plan seemed to be fly under the radar.

​​​​​​​

Squawk7700 4th Jul 2023 09:53


Originally Posted by PoppaJo (Post 11461639)
You would need to question if the male

he had his own aircraft

I see the ATSB has started using pronouns.

PoppaJo 4th Jul 2023 10:02


Originally Posted by Squawk7700 (Post 11461645)
I see the ATSB has started using pronouns.

Normally I’d say PIC. However he wasn’t. Reckless behaviour.

Desert Flower 5th Jul 2023 03:24


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11461512)
ATSB has dropped the investigation - and this time I completely agree with their logic. Why waste resources on someone who was unlicensed and had a DILLIGAF attitude to the rules and regulations. I am not so crass to say he deserved what happened, but you just can't tell some people.

Sucks for his passenger though.

And the unborn child :(

DF.

zegnaangelo 5th Jul 2023 09:35


Originally Posted by PoppaJo (Post 11461639)
If it wasn't this accident, it would have been another, 30 hours is nothing and one has not even had Navigation training at that point. You would need to question if the male had any further intention to conduct any further flying at all with a training school, he had his own aircraft, the plan seemed to be fly under the radar.

and he wanted to buy a twin too.
but i guess if he really wanted to buy one, he would have to finish his PPL before anyone would even bother training him in one...

PoppaJo 6th Jul 2023 05:00


Originally Posted by zegnaangelo (Post 11462210)
and he wanted to buy a twin too.
but i guess if he really wanted to buy one, he would have to finish his PPL before anyone would even bother training him in one...

The ATSB mentioned he didn’t pass the RPC theory exam. Doubt this person would have even got to a twin endorsement.

I have to ask though, he was very active on public social channels, everything filmed and put up was in breach of multiple regs, did the Aero Club know about this illegal behaviour?

43Inches 6th Jul 2023 05:41


Originally Posted by PoppaJo (Post 11462662)
The ATSB mentioned he didn’t pass the RPC theory exam. Doubt this person would have even got to a twin endorsement.

I have to ask though, he was very active on public social channels, everything filmed and put up was in breach of multiple regs, did the Aero Club know about this illegal behaviour?

If he owned one he'd just fly it, if he wasn't operating legally why would he suddenly change that attitude... There is no difference to a joy riding teen on the road, they don't know the danger until they are smeared across the pavement.

MagnumPI 6th Jul 2023 05:57


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11462669)
If he owned one he'd just fly it, if he wasn't operating legally why would he suddenly change that attitude... There is no difference to a joy riding teen on the road, they don't know the danger until they are smeared across the pavement.

Except this wasn't a teenager. This was an adult, with a pregnant partner, taking her to a scan. You'd hope that there'd be at least one or more well intentioned folks in the aero club who were aware of the shenanigans and took steps to stop him, or reported it to CASA if he was unwilling to change his ways.

If someone wants to go and be reckless in an aeroplane whilst ignoring every regulation in the books and any sense of airmanship, they should at least have the decency to not put others at risk whilst engaging in that behaviour.

I wonder if his pregnant partner knew that he wasn't legally allowed to fly such a trip or that he hadn't even completed navex training...sadly, we'lll probably never know.

Tragic.

PiperCameron 6th Jul 2023 06:10


Originally Posted by MagnumPI (Post 11462675)
I wonder if his pregnant partner knew that he wasn't legally allowed to fly such a trip or that he hadn't even completed navex training...sadly, we'lll probably never know.

Reading the report it does seem that he got away with it before (in nice VFR on his own) so he thought he could do it again (in not-so-nice weather with a passenger). Likely a bit of "she'll be right, mate!" chucked in with some "I've done it before, so what's the big deal??"


Originally Posted by MagnumPI (Post 11462675)
Tragic.

Indeed... stupid also. :(

43Inches 6th Jul 2023 06:40


If someone wants to go and be reckless in an aeroplane whilst ignoring every regulation in the books and any sense of airmanship, they should at least have the decency to not put others at risk whilst engaging in that behaviour.
That is exactly what makes them the same as the joyrider. They don't go out of their way to crash, they push the limits because they know better than everyone else. I know my plane, my car, my boat, etc etc etc... If he knew he was endangering the others on board he probably would not have gone. Its the attitude that you know what you are doing and can handle it that gets you into trouble when you don't have the training or real knowledge of what is going on. Of course it all goes fine until finally it doesn't. Unfortunately this trait can go life long, if you survive the bad days, and is not limited to teens. I've seen it in older pilots in their 50s, especially self made businessmen, they feel they can handle anything once they are taught the basics.

Squawk7700 6th Jul 2023 07:13


I wonder if his pregnant partner knew that he wasn't legally allowed to fly such a trip or that he hadn't even completed navex training...sadly, we'lll probably never know.
My wife probably wouldn’t care if I told her I had a licence without the nav endorsement, probably as I would have convinced her prior that it’s safe to go… “honey, that’s just a formality, it’s for when you don’t use the GPS, but we have GPS so it’s perfectly fine, I’ll just turn around if the weather gets bad.” Just like most passengers couldn’t care less if their old-school taxi drivers had a licence or not. I worked with people who didn’t care if the qantas pilot has a licence or not, as long as they arrived safely.

Lookleft 6th Jul 2023 08:15


I've seen it in older pilots in their 50s, especially self made businessmen, they feel they can handle anything once they are taught the basics.
Very true. i saw a lot of that when I was a flying instructor. A good example of it was the Chieftain crash at Mt Hotham. Being old and arrogant has the same outcome as being young and stupid.

helispotter 6th Jul 2023 13:15

Aside from the media release link shared by Desert Flower, here is link to the investigation report and discontinuation notice: Discontinuation notice (atsb.gov.au). It was also covered in ABC on-line news: Investigation finds pilot was unlicensed during north Queensland crash that killed young couple - ABC News

I wonder how prevalent it might be for aircraft to be flown in Australia by unlicensed pilots? In this case, the pilot even owned the aircraft. That makes me wonder whether there is any CASA requirement for the registered owner or registered operator to hold a pilots license or to even simply list such details in the process of registering their aircraft?

43Inches 6th Jul 2023 13:31

Can't see anyway for CASA to police who owns aircraft. A lot of people for various reasons might buy an aircraft and not fly them personally. You could own a business jet and get someone else to fly it. Or just own a Cessna and rent it to the local aero club as a tax write off. Pilots flying unlicensed or without medicals requires them to be caught on a ramp check or by reporting.

runway16 6th Jul 2023 13:55

Reporting? Tried that and the report to CASA fell in the round file. The rule busting went on.
R

Cedrik 6th Jul 2023 15:59


Originally Posted by runway16 (Post 11462919)
Reporting? Tried that and the report to CASA fell in the round file. The rule busting went on.
R

They are too busy putting putting more legalise into regs, making everything a strict liability offence, using tax payers money to travel Australia under the excuse of "currency" and telling everybody how they listen to the industry while destroying GA.

172heavy 6th Jul 2023 21:49

If you go to a remote part of the NT you may find a guy who owns an aircraft operating daily charters on a PPL without an AOC. This individual may also hold an extremely high position in an aviation governing body.

Mach E Avelli 7th Jul 2023 01:57


Originally Posted by 172heavy (Post 11463154)
If you go to a remote part of the NT you may find a guy who owns an aircraft operating daily charters on a PPL without an AOC. This individual may also hold an extremely high position in an aviation governing body.

I commend you for your careful use of the word “may”.
However, you cannot be sued for defamation if your allegations are true, so why not report it in writing to CASA and relevant industry representatives? Include other members of the aviation governing body that he is representing, but give CASA a month’s head start , in the hopes that they ping him and pull his licence.
Advise all recipients that you will retain a copy of your correspondence and will go public if this person does not immediately desist, or ever has an accident.
OTOH, if it’s only hearsay, I suggest you let it go and leave it to Charles Darwin. He sure sorted out the original subject of this thread!


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