What has happened to SBAS?
 

Quite some time ago, announcements were made that the Australian Government was going ahead with the Satellite Based Augmentation System (SBAS), however nothing much seems to have been said or done in recent times.

Could there be a problem with who is going to pay for the ground stations?

There is heaps going on in this space. Still going ahead, I believe contracts are being finalised.

Why do you continue to have conspiracy theories over this? Its a fully funded Australian Government Infrastructure project.

You could try using google:
https://www.gpsworld.com/australia-n...-sbas-by-2023/
https://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-top...gram#heading-3

I think Dick knows more than he's saying. As any politician will tell you, never ask a question you don't know the answer to. I did hear a rumour the acquisition of the ground stations in Australia was presenting some problems compared to New Zealand.

Glad this topic has come up.
I was wondering about the Australian SBAS upgrade myself, and how it was going.
Seems to be we have had to wait an inordinately long time to get something other countries have had for many, many years.
Hope our leaders don’t try their usual thing of trying to reinvent the wheel, and in doing so stuff it up, and make it expensive, late, and of limited usefulness.

Alphacentauri, no, there is no conspiracy theory here. This is a direct quote from the latest Australian Helicopter Industry Association newsletter dated 31 August 2021 in relation to SBAS:

Does not sound that the project is fully funded!

Ahh so you don't know how to read then.....the quote is about funding to "enhance" the system, not about providing a system.

Not sure what enhancements they are referring to, I suspect it may have something to do with expected rated coverage of the network. There is belief that more ground stations = more coverage and this untrue.

Alpha

Sounds a bit like it to me.

Alpha. You appear to be a positive supporter of what the government is doing.

Do you have any information on when it will be up and operating?

Will aircraft have to be fitted with additional expensive equipment ?

WAAS in North America operates with existing Garmin and the like equipment - will it be the same here?

Who is the “ go to “ person in Australia that has the vision on this project? Or is there no such individual?

Dick,
Q1 Yes I am.
Q2 In the 2024/25 time frame
Q3 Not that I am aware, you just need to make sure that avionics is WAAS capable. I believe that is TSO145/146
Q4 Project is being run by Geoscience Australia as a national navigation infrastructure project. Of which Aviation is a minority user but is being consulted with. If you want to know about the project then I suggest someone at GA would be your best bet. The aviation side is straight forward in that it will mostly be a copy of the US WAAS system. There is project at Airservices running that side of things.

The reason things are quiet is because they are still at contract negotiation/finalisation stage. When that is complete, things will become clearer.

What exactly do you want to know?

Alpha.

Mainly want to know if it will be similar to the the US. WAAS and work with existing Garmin and similar equipment.

So often we do things differently. Look at our airspace and safety regulations.

I wonder if they are putting safety in front of cost.

And the helicopter association quote gives reason for concern.

I don't believe that can be guaranteed at this point.

Given most, if not all, past experiences with any infrastructure upgrades in this Country..............:rolleyes:


Cynical....who....me???:ugh:

But I'd really love to be proved wrong on this subject!!

SBAS according to our unzud partners
Update on SouthPAN

Imagine that Lockheed Martin would think they are in the box seat for a tender win. considering they have the runs already with links to all the ground reference stations the uplink facility at Uralla and the satellites already doing their thing. However, I wonder if Thales will win all the marbles again with a come from behind bid that miraculously ticks every single box...Just sayin...Off the shelf means nothing to our Aussie procurement experts.

Surprise surprise, Australia continues to be left behind.
Progress being made in Africa and Indian Ocean.
An article in Flight Global.

http://www.flightglobal.com/safety/a...149242.article

Twenty. years too late and poor value when it eventually arrives. Probably obsolete as well. The only area in which Australia is “cutting edge” is over regulation and corruption.

Doesn’t Sydney and Melbourne have SBAS approaches or something similar?

Capt Fathom, aviation is a very small part of the potential and actual usage of SBAS. Cheap, real time centimeter accuracy revolutionises everything from mining and agriculture to terrestrial transport and consumer goods……..except Australians are last to benefit as usual.


SBAS - brought to you by the same types of cretins who delivered the NbN.

I think those approaches are GBAS, not SBAS, using beacons nearby. GBAS (DGPS) is readily available in Australia if you're willing to pay a subscription.

Hi Sunfish "except Australians are last to benefit as usual.", better than the UK who had SBAS for LPV approaches but after leaving the EU and EASA, no longer have access to it. Another win for Brexit....

Redsnail
Not sure how that is "better than the UK".
At least UK had SBAS LPV for a time.
We have never had it.

Yep, we had it and lost it all because of ridiculous politics.... No idea if the UK will ever get it back again. Frustrating.

According to this site. Not going to be fully operational till 2025.

Here is some info that may make Redsnail happy

Cheers Ozbusdriver, I reckon I'll be retired before it's operational :D

OZbusdriver, thank you, but......... "researching applications 25 years after the technology was released and available in the USA??? What is the Government smoking? Do they think Einsteins field equations and Maxwells equations are 'different" down under?

WAAS/SBAS is settled science get on with it! There is SFA need for research!!!!!!!! Miners and Farmers need it now!!!!!!

Croppies have been using their own DGPS for years. No reason why Mining and Farmers can’t….. if they are not already!

Contract awarded to Lockheed Martin.
Glacial progress so far, but maybe this indicates light at the end of the tunnel (hopefully that light isn't the headlight of an oncoming train full of Canberra bureaucrats moved to oversee this project).

I cannot post web links yet.
Google " Lockheed Martin awarded SouthPAN contract " in Aust Defence Magazine.

I've been following SBAS for a little while from a personal interest in satellite tech and the work of some folks I know, and although not all that clear as yet, I'm told that the system we'll be getting is slightly different and much more advanced than the other GPS augmentation systems out there.

I note various articles are talking about it (a) making Baro-VNAV completely redundant and (b) offering better than 100mm accuracy on approach.

“100mm accuracy”…. Hmmm… I wonder if terrorists could make use of a bomb drone with that sort of accuracy…..







​​​​​…

Probably... and that might be part of the reason for the roll-out delay whilst they work through challenges like that.

They were joking that it's accurate enough to allow you to choose which part of the center-line stripe you wanted to land on. If it's as good as they say, that's crazy!

Nothing new in that. Different system, different boxes required. SBAS has always given you LPV, which has lower DAs than LNAV-VNAV, but about the same as RNP-AR, without, as I understand it, a lot of the hassle.

The SYD and MEL GBAS approaches have near enough to 200' DH.

Whatever you do, don't use it yet:MELBOURNE FIR/BRISBANE FIR (YMMM/YBBB)
C1311/22
NEW SBAS SOUTHPAN (SERVICE PROVIDER IDENTIFIER 8) (L1, DFMC) NOT
COMMISSIONED
RADIATING ON TEST, DO NOT USE FOR NAVIGATION DUE POSSIBLE FALSE
INDICATIONS
FROM 09 140237 TO 11 300200 EST

Great! Let's wait another 5 years and get it down to 20mm accuracy

We may not have a civilian usable GPS signal in 5 years.


It is interesting having a look-see at one of Indonesias main news services YouTube channel. Seems they are supporting terrorists who send missiles into city’s. Have a look-see at the comments sections of the vids..:yuk:


https://m.youtube.com/c/tribuntimur/videos

Binghi, can you be a bit more specific with your links. My indonesian language skills is not too good.

Most of the vids relating to the war are pro putin. They do offer up a little counterbalance at times, though not much.

No need to do many translations. Just have a look at all the Russian flags in the comments section.

Here’s an example:

Peluncur Roket Pasukan Muslim Chechnya Meluncur Bak Hujan Deras 'Proyektil' di Nasionalis Ukraina

Chechen Muslim Forces Rocket Launcher Launches Like Torrential Rain 'Projectile' in Ukrainian Nationalists

Are you referring to the US-controlled GPS constellation specifically? or GPS/GNSS more generally?? If the former, then the US has always been able to 'tweak' the accuracy in certain contested regions and if the latter, it's only the lazy/stupid terrierists that would rely on civilian GPS in a war zone - everyone else sets up their own (classified) positioning systems anyway.

Even though Australia now has a highly-paid 'Space Command' with a remit to ensure Aussie satellites and signals don't get tampered with (exactly how they'll do that is anyone's guess), perhaps on final approach GBAS has it's advantages after all.

I get the impression we went with SBAS partly because it was cheaper than installing GBAS stations at every major airport.. but others here may know.