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What has happened to SBAS?

Old 31st Aug 2021, 22:38
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What has happened to SBAS?

Quite some time ago, announcements were made that the Australian Government was going ahead with the Satellite Based Augmentation System (SBAS), however nothing much seems to have been said or done in recent times.

Could there be a problem with who is going to pay for the ground stations?

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Old 31st Aug 2021, 22:53
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There is heaps going on in this space. Still going ahead, I believe contracts are being finalised.

Could there be a problem with who is going to pay for the ground stations?
Why do you continue to have conspiracy theories over this? Its a fully funded Australian Government Infrastructure project.
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Old 1st Sep 2021, 00:18
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Originally Posted by Dick Smith View Post
Quite some time ago, announcements were made that the Australian Government was going ahead with the Satellite Based Augmentation System (SBAS), however nothing much seems to have been said or done in recent times.

Could there be a problem with who is going to pay for the ground stations?

You could try using google:
https://www.gpsworld.com/australia-n...-sbas-by-2023/
https://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-top...gram#heading-3

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Old 1st Sep 2021, 03:43
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I think Dick knows more than he's saying. As any politician will tell you, never ask a question you don't know the answer to. I did hear a rumour the acquisition of the ground stations in Australia was presenting some problems compared to New Zealand.
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Old 1st Sep 2021, 03:56
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Glad this topic has come up.
I was wondering about the Australian SBAS upgrade myself, and how it was going.
Seems to be we have had to wait an inordinately long time to get something other countries have had for many, many years.
Hope our leaders don’t try their usual thing of trying to reinvent the wheel, and in doing so stuff it up, and make it expensive, late, and of limited usefulness.

Last edited by rjtjrt; 1st Sep 2021 at 04:36. Reason: Grammar
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Old 1st Sep 2021, 04:53
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Alphacentauri, no, there is no conspiracy theory here. This is a direct quote from the latest Australian Helicopter Industry Association newsletter dated 31 August 2021 in relation to SBAS:

“Current challenges include identifying funding to procure the necessary ground station sites that will enhance the SBAS network.”
Does not sound that the project is fully funded!


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Old 1st Sep 2021, 05:07
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Ahh so you don't know how to read then.....the quote is about funding to "enhance" the system, not about providing a system.

Not sure what enhancements they are referring to, I suspect it may have something to do with expected rated coverage of the network. There is belief that more ground stations = more coverage and this untrue.

Alpha
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Old 1st Sep 2021, 05:09
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Originally Posted by rjtjrt View Post
Glad this topic has come up.
I was wondering about the Australian SBAS upgrade myself, and how it was going.
Seems to be we have had to wait an inordinately long time to get something other countries have had for many, many years.
Hope our leaders don’t try their usual thing of trying to reinvent the wheel, and in doing so stuff it up, and make it expensive, late, and of limited usefulness.
Sounds a bit like it to me.
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Old 1st Sep 2021, 05:46
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Alpha. You appear to be a positive supporter of what the government is doing.

Do you have any information on when it will be up and operating?

Will aircraft have to be fitted with additional expensive equipment ?

WAAS in North America operates with existing Garmin and the like equipment - will it be the same here?

Who is the “ go to “ person in Australia that has the vision on this project? Or is there no such individual?
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Old 1st Sep 2021, 06:00
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Dick,
Q1 Yes I am.
Q2 In the 2024/25 time frame
Q3 Not that I am aware, you just need to make sure that avionics is WAAS capable. I believe that is TSO145/146
Q4 Project is being run by Geoscience Australia as a national navigation infrastructure project. Of which Aviation is a minority user but is being consulted with. If you want to know about the project then I suggest someone at GA would be your best bet. The aviation side is straight forward in that it will mostly be a copy of the US WAAS system. There is project at Airservices running that side of things.

The reason things are quiet is because they are still at contract negotiation/finalisation stage. When that is complete, things will become clearer.

What exactly do you want to know?

Alpha.
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Old 1st Sep 2021, 08:58
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Mainly want to know if it will be similar to the the US. WAAS and work with existing Garmin and similar equipment.

So often we do things differently. Look at our airspace and safety regulations.

I wonder if they are putting safety in front of cost.

And the helicopter association quote gives reason for concern.
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Old 1st Sep 2021, 09:47
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Originally Posted by Dick Smith View Post
Mainly want to know if it will be similar to the the US. WAAS and work with existing Garmin and similar equipment.

So often we do things differently. Look at our airspace and safety regulations.

I wonder if they are putting safety in front of cost.

And the helicopter association quote gives reason for concern.
I don't believe that can be guaranteed at this point.
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Old 1st Sep 2021, 09:52
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Hope our leaders don’t try their usual thing of trying to reinvent the wheel, and in doing so stuff it up, and make it expensive, late, and of limited usefulness.
Given most, if not all, past experiences with any infrastructure upgrades in this Country..............


Cynical....who....me???

But I'd really love to be proved wrong on this subject!!
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Old 2nd Sep 2021, 09:17
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SBAS according to our unzud partners
Update on SouthPAN
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Old 2nd Sep 2021, 10:06
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Imagine that Lockheed Martin would think they are in the box seat for a tender win. considering they have the runs already with links to all the ground reference stations the uplink facility at Uralla and the satellites already doing their thing. However, I wonder if Thales will win all the marbles again with a come from behind bid that miraculously ticks every single box...Just sayin...Off the shelf means nothing to our Aussie procurement experts.
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Old 1st Jul 2022, 01:15
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Surprise surprise, Australia continues to be left behind.
Progress being made in Africa and Indian Ocean.
An article in Flight Global.

http://www.flightglobal.com/safety/a...149242.article
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 09:28
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Twenty. years too late and poor value when it eventually arrives. Probably obsolete as well. The only area in which Australia is “cutting edge” is over regulation and corruption.
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 11:42
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Doesn’t Sydney and Melbourne have SBAS approaches or something similar?
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 19:15
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Capt Fathom, aviation is a very small part of the potential and actual usage of SBAS. Cheap, real time centimeter accuracy revolutionises everything from mining and agriculture to terrestrial transport and consumer goods……..except Australians are last to benefit as usual.


SBAS - brought to you by the same types of cretins who delivered the NbN.
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 03:02
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post
Doesn’t Sydney and Melbourne have SBAS approaches or something similar?
I think those approaches are GBAS, not SBAS, using beacons nearby. GBAS (DGPS) is readily available in Australia if you're willing to pay a subscription.
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