NT C210
 

Sad news again.

2017 has been a bugger of a year for GA.

rIP.

Sad news indeed, keep frosty out there boys and girls, it can be difficult even at the best of times.

Air Frontier 210 en route Darwin to Elcho according to NT News. :(

Reports that the wings came off?

RIP

ABC media is showing the rego - VH HWY

Plane crash leaves two dead at Howard Springs on Darwin's outskirts - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

https://www.casa.gov.au/aircraft-reg...eld_ar_serial=

Given the wings are in the trees i suspect they departed when it hit the trees.

BTW the ABC definition of Howard Springs is pretty loose.

On the little info and the statement of 2 distinct separate areas, but not seeing them.

The wing that is vertically against the tree does seem to part of a wing a fair way from the fuse (a few feet).

If this is one area and the other a few hundred meters away on the other side of the road, I doubt the wings came off but one was removed by a tree. 200 m is not very far unless you are very low such as survey - so if the wings came off I expect they would be much further from the rest of the craft.

RIP.

There were a few large buildups out in the area this afternoon where they come down. Looking at one photo on the ABC report, looks like there had been rain in the area.

Not good news.

Very sad news!! Normally the 210s are bulletproof in strength.

The CASA link above shows the CofR holder and Operator only changed last month too

The wings didn't look like they were ripped off by impact.
The leading edges all look not too bad.

I did not see the in/bd point the wing departed - it will be localized if it was a tree trunk/s.

Impact with water will flatten the leading edge - and separate it from the rest of wing about 2 foot from wing attach point (the weak point). Have photos if you need them.


Other than that what will make leading edges look bad?

If they are relatively intact and I'm not mistaken, it wouldn't be the first time 210 wings have departed in flight.

Bend Alot. I would be interested in seeing photos.

Here we go again. C210 wings are weak because they don't have struts according to ill informed people/pilots. Yet they happily jump into their strutless Bonanzas and Pipers.:ugh::ugh:

Like any aircraft they will shed wings when flown way outside the envelope or when they hit something solid enough.

ABC reporting this morning that the wings were located 400m from the fuselage.

Coffin on board
 

Coffin in a 210 is a tight fit. where were the 2 middle seats? what was used to support the coffin in the middle section. Were tiedown straps used to secure the coffin to some fixed point. In a turbulent situation if the horizontal stab got deflected up causing the nose to pitch slightly down, would that have caused the coffin to move fwd slightly. If it pushed on the co pilot seatback even a little distance would cause the control column to push down. That would also increase the airspeed and take it beyond va of 110 kts even with pwr off. When this company has other suitable aircraft for coffin they why the hell would you use the most unsuitable type for this job. Use a bloody 207 or bonanza or something. Wats the use of owning 60 planes when all of them are junk. own 10 and have them in good condition.

A moving coffin? I've heard it all now! :hmm:

As you say Corvallis, a coffin run in a C210 is definitely a tight fit. Able to be done but generally the front copilot seat is removed entirely from what I've witnessed before. I've seen milk crates used to support the coffin where the middle row seat is removed and everything strapped down. It is however possible, that if this was the case, the coffin could have shifted in bad turbulence.
If the copilot seat was removed to facilitate the coffin, this begs the question where the second person was seated in the aircraft? I've heard that this was a training flight with 2 pilots on board (admittedly not confirmed) so I'm assuming ICUS in which case the copilot seat would have been occupied.
I hate to speculate so I'll leave it there but what a terribly tragic event. :sad:

Anyone know how to bring up the radar weather picture for the time of the event - 1330 local? Looked at the BOM site but beyond my capabilities (not hard).

Weather definitely seems to be relevant. LiveATC recording has him requesting initally 5 miles left and right, of which only 5nm right was granted due to restricted airspace. The approach controller later gave him 10nm right, and at some point offered "alternative routing", so the aircraft was definitely trying to avoid something.

BoM Darwin Airport Radar Loop - Rain Rate - IDR103 : 01:00 23/10/2017 UTC - 01:00 24/10/2017 UTC

Stop at UTC 0400

Coffins come in all different sizes.

Once witnessed an operator trying to fit a coffin in his Cherokee, so when it didn't fit,he took out old mate and put him in seperate and unscrewed the coffin to make it fit.

I won't comment on this accident because there is not enough accurate information available to form a valid opinion.

A common thread in any accident (C210 or other type) in similar situations runs something like this. Certain constraints eg terrain, controlled airspace, restricted airspace, getthereitis and nasty weather ahead. There's a bit that doesn't look too bad. We should be OK that way. Opps we've just gone IMC. Never mind I've got an instrument rating and an auto pilot. We'll be through this soon. There were imbedded thunder storms forecast. I hope they're not where we are. Suddenly all hell breaks loose. The autopilot disconnects and the aircraft is tossed around like a leaf in a willy willy. No instrument stays still long enough to work out what is going on.

If lucky in a few minutes the aircraft pops out the other side shaken but not broken with enough altitude to recover from whatever strange attitude the pilot finds his aircraft.

If not lucky and too close to the ground, at or beyond VNE, the heroic efforts to save the day have pulled a wings off.
Read the sickening similar accident reports going back to when man first ventured into clouds.

^^ as rutan around said :(
Just about every vfr topend Pilot has their own story of venturing into poor weather, seeing that little gap they thought they could get to close up before them and finding themself below LSALT, myself
Included. Even with a good autopilot and instrument rating, it’s a sickening feeling when your eyes are scanning the instrument panel and nothing seems to look familiar.
i can only imagine what was going on in the cockpit on those final moments.
RIP fellas

I'd say a body bag, not a coffin.
They would have boxes at Elcho and complete the packaging there.

Thanks Cazbah, the 0300 to 0400 loop is telling. Had rain at the airport early morning but clear skies following, in DWN at the time.

The young man, Darcy McCarter, 23, RIP youngster.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/908...x4-340x453.jpg

Of all the funeral runs I did to arnehm land they were all in coffins as the body's are prepared in Darwin and transported out. They do not have the resources to prepare them remote.

Unless times have changed since my day, it's likely to have been a coffin. Usually inbound to Darwin from the community was in a bag to the mortuary for the autopsy, then back out in a coffin to the community.

Agreed, every time I've done it, it's always been in a coffin. I've always done it in either a C207 or Airvan though.

Mention the words "Coffin Charter' to any ex PNG type will most likely elicit a burst of expletives!:* Especially if those two words are preceded by two extra words. "A Fane..."

In my case, if Fane was concerned; Definitely!:=:mad::mad:

It was a YBHI aircraft back when I knew it. Probably one of the nicer 210's around at the time.

DF.

I spoke with a mate this afternoon who is a firey who attended the site and was involved in extricating the bodies of the deceased. He said the wings were not that far apart, and unfortunately most telling that the fuselage landed horizontally, level with the terrain. The roof of the cabin was approximately 600ml above the floor. "Pancaked"!
Appears high vertical speed impact with the ground took place in level pitch attitude.
This from a semi laypersons observation.
Condolences go to all concerned.
RIP young aviators!

So sad - there but for the grace of God....

For those who haven't had the experience of being wedged under a coffin in the back of a 200 series Cessna: they're tricky to get through the doors but will certainly fit with the front seats in situ (always removed the rear seats in the 206). I never experienced any weight and balance issues on funeral runs in the same region. I'd be very surprised if the cargo had any bearing on the accident.

I hope the ATSB are able to provide some answers for the families, friends and colleagues.

Keep safe, S

Well, someone with the right connections is going to post the Flightradar24 paints synchronised along with the BOM WX radar sweeps, so something might come from that. Otherwise, I'd be interested in how the box was tied down and if ATSB finds the witness marks in the AH matched the nose attitude at impact.

Are you related to anyone involved? If not, it’s none of your business!

Fathom, as in .. it's freight, and I'm interested in how it (and anything else ) was tied down, ie., I'll be reading the ATSB report and specifically looking at that aspect.
Incidentally, what other bulky stuff do you think might have been in the cabin ?

Dumbest quote of the day, a couple of boys have died and you want to start an argument. What sort of a moron are you?

Post 19 suggests the coffin may have moved forward and pushed the control column forward.

Highly unlikely I think.

People have been hauling coffins around the Territory in the back of C210s for 30 years that I know of and probably much longer. I haven't heard of problems.

Coffins empty or full are relatively light ( not like a loose,full 200 litre drum of fuel that once caused a fatal) There were 2 pilots on board so between them the coffin could be quickly pushed back.

The main evidence that the coffin wasn't involved is that the aircraft impacted flat ie parallel with the ground. If the controls were pushed forward as suggested then the impact would be more vertical.