And metadata is far, far more than just what you've been searching for on the internet. Were you fatigued before an incident? If you say you weren't, why do your mobile records indicate a series of texts sent and received through the night, and can you justify keeping your job? Searching something on BeyondBlue, for whatever reason? Are you sure you aren't depressed? Say yes and you are seen as depressed, say no and you are seen as both depressed and lying to your medical examiner or CASA, both of which can have serious and ongoing implications for your employment.

Metadata also binds together a lot of otherwise separate information, which makes it so powerful. The tracking cookie on your home PC might know your browser history, the work PC might know you are a regular on the AFAP jobs website and pprune, the phone company knows who you call and when, and from where, the spyware you inadvertently installed may know your preference for busty blondes, but storing all this information collected across different devices and locations and collating it into one dataset, linked to you, for CASA, is far more powerful and dangerous than any individual organisation that previously had a piece of the overall picture.

Having an affair, or conducting anything else that you may not wish to be public knowledge but isnt otherwise illegal, there are plenty of pointers available through the metadata of when phone calls are made, or not answered (say late night calls that aren't answered when the wife's cell phone is logged in at the same location), when mobile phones log onto cell towers and when they move around from one cell to the next.

As far as claiming this helps stop crime and terrorism, TOR, VPN and numerous other forms of encrypted communication are already in use that effectively stop this form of tracking being useful, this is only a way to keep track of those people who arent seriously trying to cover their tracks; laws that everyone accepted in the name of national security are being twisted to watch everyone. People suspected of serious crimes will be surveilled, bugged by police or intelligence services following proper procedures such as obtaining warrants and otherwise monitored, this just watches everyone else that hasn't committed a crime (yet) until someone decides to leaf through reams of data and find something. Did your phone log onto a cell tower before you landed? But your company procedure is phones in flight mode, are you this neglectful of all your procedures or just the ones you disagree with?

Given that most people would have their phones off in an aeroplane how is meta data actually going to help CASA in their goal of regulating the CARs?

Another question to ask is who does CASA share its information with?

I would be interested in seeing their submission if it is available.

It would be pretty easy to match a phone location to a logbook if logbook trolling were to take place retrospectively. Add that to accessing weather forecasts would be on record. Even your data card could be traced from your data service using OZRunways or Avplan. The potential is almost endless...

Keep your nose clean as they say, stay out of trouble and you won't have a problem, because there's not much you can do about it other than go off the grid completely!

A few other aspects of metadata collection that I have witnessed are:

1) Most professional criminal organisations already know how to bypass or obfuscate the metadata trails they may create.

2) Agencies or organisations can fabricate a set of metadata trails to suit their own agendas. This is an extremely difficult for an individual to disprove.

3) The metadata collection system, by it very own closed system nature, is itself corruptible.

De Flieger...

and when did "everyone" accept these laws in the name of national security? Last I remember in this "Dictatorship Democracy" the people of Australia have whatever rammed down their throats whether 99% of the public like it or not.

Watch the following video - I think it sums up the situation nicely. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o66FUc61MvU

TOR
 

When I try to access this site from TOR it does not seem to be able to do it. Have they blocked the browser from getting access to this site?

Why do you think I defend them sometimes? It's all about prior planning, you know. You blokes are way behind the 8 ball now! :)

...And always have a background window open on the CASA jobs website!

Oh, wait - no, that'll flag up in some other departments/companies download of your metadata information. :)

"Led Zep, you're identified; verify medical history and online credit card transactions."

With the proliferation of free wifi around the country like in Melbourne CBD, trains, buses, McDonalds and shopping centers, the value of metadata related to Internet browsing will soon be dininished.

Very clever :8
Not enough people spoke out against the metadata retention laws, because of the claim that they would only be used to stop terrorists and child abusers, and now everyone is stuck with them, with neither party likely to change them for fear that the other side will say they are "wanting to make life easy for the terrorists". I was against them and I guess you probably were too Sbaker, but as you say, we got them anyway. (The Greens opposed them, but apparently they are a bunch of filthy commie so-and-so's :E that noone likes around here).

With the proliferation of free wifi around the country, the value of metadata will be greatly increased - your uniquely identifiable device logged on at certain WiFi access points, showing where you were, when you were there, what you looked up, how long you stayed and even where you moved around in certain situations. That's what they are wanting to store (among many other things).

Who gives a ****? Really.

Quite the contrary. Do you think the bad guys will be using their own device for such activities? No. Do you think that McDonalds keep a record of all MAC addresses of all devices that accesses their free wifi? No. Do you think that a smart criminal (if in fact there is such a thing) will use a device that can be linked to their identity? No.

Who cares? Good question... If you've for nothing to worry about then this would be no problem, but just imagine if you made a mistake in your logbook and wrote down Melbourne to Sydney when in fact you actually travelled to Brisbane and CASA does their logbook trolling on you, combined with a review of your metadata???

Do I think the bad guys will be using their own devices? No. The seriously bad guys have many different encrypted or hidden methods of communication, this will only affect the rest of us. Do I think McDonalds keep a record of every MAC address that accesses their WiFi? Probably not, maybe, but its certainly not impossible, and if you access Telstra WiFi or similar then you can expect it to be retained. The MAC address isnt the only thing that necessarily identifies a user or device either.

Does McDonalds keep a record of every MAC address? No! MsDonalds ISP does!

Using an untraceable second hand laptop will work….until you visit your email account or attempt to contact your friends with it. Or when the machine with the invisible MAC address is always used where your iPhone is - travels with the iPhone in fact.

Then of course there is the little matter of your Ozrunways running on your iPad…. If it is accessing the Bom, Naips or the Ozrunways traffic server then "ping".

The paranoia is high in this thread. I hear if you wrap your phone in tin foil you'll be right.

I am not sure about metadata, data storage and surveillance, and CASA's use of all of this. (They want to know that I spend my own time watching Youtube cats or live streaming C&W radio from America? Their lives are sadder than my pay packet.)


However, I do remember reading an accident report from the States, where the cause of the RPT flight accident was due to pilot fatigue. Part of the evidence presented was the co-pilots use of mobile phone to search social media sites and to text, during the allotted rest period. I also seem to remember that when an Aerocommander went in off Horn Island in 2011, mobile phone records and bank transaction records were used to track his activity the night prior to the accident. No sleep records were listed in the ATSB report, which showed no conclusions but speculated that fatigue was an issue.


I was only wondering a few days ago - with the rise in individuals wearing Fitbits, which record movement and sleep debt, how long before we see the information recorded on one of these devices presented in a coroner's court. Your Honour, the device records show that at the time of the accident the accused was six hours sleep deprived, and no significant movement was recorded in the four hours prior to the accident, indicating that the accused did not take advantage of the mandated rest break every two hours........in my opinion, this is not just aviation, but also applies to truckies, and (I think) will shortly include Joe Bloggs, driving over Xmas holidays....

It's not so much the surveillance powers, it's the way they can be misused and the limited power an individual has when they are.

The NSW ICAC were eavesdropping on NSW prosecutor Margaret Cuneen SC since 2008, and in 2014 they acted on a lighthearted cell phone conversation with a crash repairer to charge her with attempting to pervert the course of justice (it was not revealed why they were eavesdropping in the first place).

CASA have in the past been selective about who they prosecute, and failed dismally to act on others who deserved to be.

Recall their handling of John Quadrio and then Barry Hempel.

The Levine report into the ICAC described their actions as "arrogant", "unlawful" and "abuse of power".

Does any of this sound like the CASA you know?

Would you trust them to know who you communicate with by cell phone and what websites you visit?

Apparently the Australian Crime Commission was monitoring the phone of a tow truck driver suspected of links to organised crime, and when they heard the conversation between someone using the tow truck driver's phone after a car accident and Margaret Cunneen, they passed it onto ICAC. Margaret Cunneen says she was joking about telling her son's girlfriend to fake chest pains
(Apologies for the thread drift)

Would I trust the C**** Against Sensible Aviation with anything??

About as much as I trust any Politician:mad: of any political persuasion. Which is less than I would trust a Tiger Snake.