OF: Can you cite any recent example of any ATSB report that states what caused an aviation accident or incident?

I would be surprised if your gratuitous condolences achieve more than our "speculation"!

ATSB
 

Creampuff, if you are asking if I can cite an investigation in which the ATSB has apportioned blame the answer is NO. If you are asking if findings were published the answer is YES. Most recently, the fatal accident of VH-CKS. My point is that the findings of investigators will generally be more accurate than the speculations of posters on forums such as this.

ForkedTailDrKiller. I am not sure what makes my condolences gratuitous. Your comment is unwarranted in my opinion, but I may be just old fashioned.

What brings a tear to my eye is the 'gratuitous' bullsh!t posted by fools such as forktaileddrkiller who have nothing else to do at age 55 but join a forum after they've suddenly discovered the internet and now having 3500 posts somehow think they are qualified to have an opinion that matters.

Well it doesn't.

Have some humanity and learn some respect. (you're never too old)

Oh and please, spare me your "gratuitous" reply, your opinion matters nothing to me so live and learn.

Compylot,

I don't think that my opinion is really important to others. And with the greatest of respect, neither that of you nor FTDK.

But I certainly disagree with you that FTDK is a fool, as you accuse.

You identify as aged 23. I suspect that FTDK has just a little more of life's experience under his belt than you do. Not to mention G.A. experience...

Please learn to argue credibly rather than simply insult.

(Sorrry everyone for the drift. Now back to thread.)

Oh for f&ck sake, that's it, I quit the Internet.

Compylot,
Kindly moderate your tone.
Suggest you come back to this thread when you've given it a bit of thought.

Please don't degrade the thread to the point it closes as some credible information I've been told is about to come to light via official channels and I suspect it will be published elsewhere and inevitably here. Let's see what happens when the wreck is brought to the surface hopefully in the very near future.

OF, I didn't ask you that.

You said:I asked:That question still stands.

If your answer to that question is: could you please quote the parts of the investigation report that state what caused the accident.

48 posts and counting.
 

From which the following data has emerged:-

So far as I can tell, we have two competent airmen doing a bi-annual review in a Morgan Sierra. Sometime during the flight 'something' has occurred resulting in one dead, one missing.

Speculation, bird strike, or structural, or engine.

Birds – Pelican – weighs in at 4.5 – 7.7 Kg; (F=MA). Was there Pelican activity that day, do they 'hold' in the area; a dozen Seagulls same thing. Have we any idea of how high the aircraft was at the 'crucial' moment. Bird strike = No data.

Structural, this argument could carry some weight; if we could reasonably assume the aircraft was in a position to make a forced landing (experienced, competent instructor). This nullifies the engine out argument somewhat; as a forced landing, even on the water has a 'survival' rating. Structural= No data. EINOP = No data...

There were two pilots on board, so the chances of dual, simultaneous heart attack can be ruled out.

So here we sit, two good men short, two grieving families to consider and no sensible answer to offer as to why this tragic event happened. However, if there is even a remote chance of this accident reoccurring, for whatever reason and other families are to be spared the grief, then respectful but diligent investigation is not only required, but essential.

Just my two bob's worth....

Creampuff asked:

When you say 'recent' Creampuff, what's your timeframe?

Let’s say the last 5 years.

“The pilot was forced to land Cessna XYZ because the engine ceased to deliver any power. The engine ceased to deliver power because component x failed. Component x failed because … Component x was torqued to that value because … "

Think you've about nailed it, Kharon. I knew Graham and have avoided this thread to date. But in the end, it's about information dissemination, however imperfect the messages and the medium. If there's the smallest possibility of avoiding a similar accident tomorrow or in a year's time, respectful, objective and thoughtful discussion can only help.

I also commend Compy for calling out plain bad behaviour. It doesn't matter if you're 23 or 83, or whether you're interacting personally or on an internet forum, loss of life demands respect and to question the sincerity of the grief or sympathy of others is pretty poor.

ATSB Findings
 

Creampuff

Please refer to the link below, open the applicable report on VH-CKS, and the PDF attached and read the FINDINGS.

If that does not answer your question of me then there is little point in continuing this conversation.

Safety investigations & reports

So in the midst of a slew of motherhood statements, pious instruction on how to behave online and the like, do we actually know anything about this accident - beyond the fact that it happened?

I raised the question earlier as to what weight could be given to the eye witness report of something falling from the aircraft before it crashed, does anyone know who observed this?

On a more general level, notwithstanding some of the wilder flights of fancy seen here, it is interesting to note that once again the focus of the pprune thread was on the crux of the recent Chipmunk crash ie. it failed to recover from a spin, something that has happened before with this type. By all means maintain an open mind, but discount the group intelligence or herd instinct if you will, at your peril.

It does answer my question.

You are unable to cite any recent example of any ATSB report that states what caused an aviation accident or incident. :=

The “FINDINGS” of the Report say:Those are all merely assertions of fact. None of them is a statement of what caused the accident/incident. Indeed, they don’t even state what the accident/incident was! :D

QED.

Creamie….I will have a crack at it. I would like to claim this as my own original works but I did …err borrow it from the Great Allan Moffat.

He confused ambition with ability. And this always ends with the mother of all :mad:ups!

How is that? :ok:

Please stick to the topic so it doesn't get shut down.

I assure you that information will be shortly available that will quickly give the reason for this crash.

. . ... a timely warning . . .. . . stay moderate or be moderated . .. . . GW himself would expect no less. . .

( there are indeed some wise old owls hereabouts .. . . . so just take five before firing from the hip. . )

So what is: "the topic"?

The thread title is a statement that an aircraft went down on the South Coast on 7 July.

That statement has proved to be true.

Therefore the thread should now be locked because the statement is no longer a matter of debate?

If more discussion is permissible in this thread, what issues may be discussed?

Can someone open another thread titled: "Speculation on why the aircraft went down on the South Coast on 7 July"?

If yes, what's the point of worrying about speculation as to the causes of accidents and incidents, on pprune? :confused: