No, that only applies to a frequency change, ie on initial contact you don't have to advise your vacated level.

Hey "JR" if we didn't have this sort of thing on PPrune just think how boring it would be in here buddy...yawn!:E

NO ONE is word perfect even ATC (sorry 'JR'), we are all meant to be professional pilots/controllers (well most of you guys are anyway:E)so we adapt where necessary to the situation like pilots have being doing since the 'Wrong Bro's left the ground:-)

We drivers could write volumes about nothing, this thread is volume 1:ok:

Wmk2

If ATC wants us to say "pending clearance" to let them know that yes, I promise I won't enter CTA without a clearance, then they would have it put into AIP. What next, call the tower and always say "holding short", just to let ATC know you are not going to take off without a clearance?

Nice try, but no cigar. Of course it won't work to 9000ft, but the other pilot can certainly start descent to 10,000 from 11,000 the instant you call "Left 9000".

Glad we had this discussion; today I said "Left 9000" and the ATC asked me how many orbits was I going to do? I said 9000 divided by 360.

I know! How about “lefted”: ABC lefted niner thousand on descent to six thousand. :ok:

(I was taught to use “left” niner thousand.)

Its simple, 'left' and 'right' are only directional instructions when you are on the ground!

Heard on the freq today(Seattle FIR) "OUTA Two For Oh for Three Oh Oh". Yah I guess it doesn't meet the anal retentive standards of the ICAO weenies but everybody understood what was being said, and North America still has the least number of airline accidents per 100,000 hrs flown, than anywhere else in the world......

It's "leaving".

Many moons ago a memo/aic or something was put out stating NOT TO USE "left" due possible confusion with a heading instruction. In the wake of an incident that involved this very subject.

End of story

How does one misinterpret a pilot reporting "Left FL X/ X000'" with a heading instruction?

I doubt very much that there is that much lack of common sense out there!

Reading this rubbish is doing my head in. From this day forth, I am going to say 'going UP' or 'going DOWN' (as the actress said to the Bishop.)

Bladeangle

As to reporting requirements when identified...

AIP Enr 1.1 para 11.3.5
Pilots must report maintaining an assigned level, unless ATC has advised IDENTIFIED.

The principle is that on first contact with a station, you verfify your altimeter reading so that ATC can confirm it is within 300' of what you txpdr is broadcasting. If you are identified, they can see on radar when you reach or depart a level, hence no need to report unless requested.

Nitpicker has it right.:ok:

Capt Bloggs

Reference?
AIP Gen 3.4 para 5.14.8
Item 2 Airborne Report. PASSING (Level) CLIMBING TO (Level).:cool:

Because of lazy RT.
A response of
"Left 200" meaning "leaving fl 200" is easily interpreted
as "im turning left heading 200".
Something like this is EXACTLY why the incident occurred and hence
emphasis on correct RT and use of "leaving" was highlighted.

Two different words is impossible to confuse.

You often hear people drop the "flight level" part . If you use "left" instead of "leaving" it is easy to see how confusion can occur .

Well, some controllers do make another whole extra radio call just to tell you not to enter controlled airspace without a clearance, and the 'pending' is an attempt to let them know that, yes, I am aware FL2xx is in controlled airspace and I'll level off at FL180 if you haven't given me a clearance by then, so don't make that unnecessary radio call. To be honest I haven't actually said 'pending clearance' for years, mostly because controllers in the sectors I've been flying haven't been doing the above.

The point isn't just about 'pending clearance', however, its about using plain language to get a particular message across - the AIP states very clearly that this is what you SHOULD do in the absence of a standard phrase.

'Leaving FLxxx' is the standard phraseology, 'left FLxxx' is plain language that tells the controller its now past tense. Its not the big deal some want to make it out to be.

Exactly what was this incident?

As the call you mentioned would have been done only by a pilot, surely the only result would have been from ATC: "WTF are you doing again?". The aeroplane wouldn't have been turning, it would have been doing exactly what ATC thought it was going to do, leave FL200. Apart from a slack-@rse driver, what's the problem?

No, you must report leaving/left when you whenever depart a level, even if identified, reference already provided in post #22: ENR 1.7 4.1.6.

That wasn't what I was asking. You said ""Leaving" is the correct phrase for a level change when not radar identified". Where's that in the book?

Only in Australia would you have have a thread on a subject like this and it runs for 3 pages what's more.

I found this to be rather unusual but then again I had to remind myself we are talking about Australia, where they often do it "better" than the rest of the world.
I would have put my money on Nitpicker and Make it happen Captain as being correct, that's how it is in other parts of the world.

Can't recall but that's the gist of why the
emphasis on "leaving". I remember getting the memo/ AIC or whatever it was very clearly.
Google it. It will be out there somewhere . Gotta go. I'm needed to fight trolls back in the RPT thread.

So Bloggs, why don't you show everyone here where it says "LEFT (level)" in the book?

The phraseology for pilot responses uses;

CHANGING TO,
MAINTAINING,
DESCENDING TO
CLIMBING TO
LOOKING,
RESUMING,
HOLDING,
LINING UP,
HOLDING SHORT,
TAXIING,
TURNING,
HEADING,
TRACKING....

Still that difficult to see the pattern?

ps, AIP ENR 1.1 12.1.4 Uses the phrase "LEAVING FLIGHT LEVEL TWO NINER ZERO".:E

A SID can use the phrasing LEFT (OR RIGHT) (three digits). NOWHERE is a level change referenced as "LEFT".

Comment reserved on identified requirements...

As an aside, this report is quite enlightening...

http://www.equinoxpub.com/journals/i...File/9957/2350

Drifting, but humorous excerpt...

(a) JNB:​Bankstown Tower. Juliet November Bravo, 2RN inbound with alpha.
(b) Tower:​Juliet November Bravo. Bankstown Tower.
Follow a Cherokee turning downwind.
(c) JNB:​Looking for traffic. Juliet November Bravo.
Unable to locate the turkey.
(d) Tower:​silence.
Juliet November Bravo. Preceding traffic is in your 2 o'clock and it is a white and blue CHE-RO-KEE. Report sighted.
(e) JNB:​Traffic sighted. Sighted Cherokee.
:}

That's the whole point; it doesn't. Nor does it say "Leaving". And as I said before, that example is so non-sensical that it cannot be credible.

Tally Ho the Turkey! :}

Understand the concept, thats not what my post was referring to though!:eek:

Love it!!


My favourite is the 3rd post by Happybandit, you Sir are an inspiration!


Not only did Happybandit in one post combine "This old chestnut" with "said checkie" they also peppered their response with gems such as "correct terminology" and "Suffice to say".


Keep up the good work