Tiger down off Straddie
 

CM reports two missing after a charter Tiger went into the water off Stradde. Very sad news, let's hope there is good news to follow.

Doesn't look good, debris on the water and divers sent out. More photos on the link below;
Tiger Moth crash off Stradbroke Island

DH 82 crash into sea Qld
 

TWO people are feared dead after a Tiger Moth plane crashed into the sea off Queensland's South Stradbroke Island.

The crash has left a trail of debris and fuel in the water and at least four choppers are searching for any signs of survivors. The plane crashed into the water about 300 metres off the island, at about 12.30pm (AEST) on Monday.

The two-seater plane is owned by Gold Coast-based operator Tiger Moth Joy Rides, which offers scenic flights and aerobatic flights including barrel rolls, loop the loops and other manoeuvres. Spokesman Jeff Stillman told AAP the company was still trying to work what had happened.

"We're not real good mate, look we don't have the information as yet, we don't really now what's going on," he told AAP.

"We're all very worried about all the occupants of the plane." Water police are also heading to the scene to assist the air search.

Photos from the crash scene show parts of the plane's wreckage, painted a vivid red, floating in the water.

Police divers are on their way to the crash site.

Here is VH-TSG, red and silver. Hoping for good news.

The photo of the speed placard is chilling isnt it? Very sad.

Last reported radio transmission from the pilot said was he was "carrying out aerobatics at 3500'."

Witnesses stated they saw the aircraft hit the water in an almost vertical high speed dive.

It looks like he might have tested and found the aircrafts aerobatic limits.

Pax is reported to be a French woman.

Sadly, two bodies have just been recovered from the water by police divers.

RIP

RIP.......:(

Nice one onetrack. I'm thinking that you are trying to say something polite but the words didn't come out right?
Those that know the Tiger would know that a spin is pretty much survivable (water aside) so to go in vertically instantly leads one to believe something far worse has occurred. What a bloody tragedy, particularly for a commercial operator.

Tragedy
 

VH-XXX. It is a bloody tragedy regardless of the rating of the Pilot. Two lives lost is two lives lost. RIP

Very sad.

I can only fear it is all from a 10c piece/iphone/<insert any loose item> and that is something that may never be found.

:sad:

You're right Jabba. Old aircraft are also simple ones, which is why they have stood the test of time and it usually takes something out of the ordinary to take them take them out of action.

VH-XXX - I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come across as unfeeling, and I don't have any more idea about what actually happened, than the next bloke.
I was merely presuming in-air break-up, due to aerobatics, but of course, it could have been any one of a dozen other things, from pilot incapacitation through to simple breakage or jamming of a vital control component.

However; and I don't think I'm alone in this view - I have serious reservations about the wisdom of practising aerobatics with paying pax on board, in an 80+ yr old wood, wire, and fabric aircraft.
Now, I now they undergo exceptionally thorough examinations for COA, but I guess the conservative side of me, tells me that if I want to go aerobatic, it's probably a lot wiser to do so, in a much later model and more durable metal airframe.

Unfortunately, despite the great love for Moths amongst pilots, the truth is, a substantial number of Moths have augered into hard ground or water after practising, or attempt to practise, aerobatics. Maybe a lot of these were pilot error, and maybe a lot weren't, either.
Maybe I'm affected by my earliest memory of aircraft being a Moth that augered in only a few miles from my home in the 1950's, after the pilot apparently tried practising the falling leaf manoeuvre. He didn't survive.

Sad...
 

Investigation: 200200377 - de Havilland Aircraft DH-82A, VH-AJG

Really quite sad, but the moth has been known to fall out of the sky for reasons unknown (I know, just like any other plane ever made). That link above being very close to me, a mate of mine being the passenger in ajg.

Tiger Moth crash off South Stradbroke Island
 

Newlywed pilot Jimmy Rae's last words before horrific Tiger Moth crash off South Stradbroke Island

JIMMY Rae grabbed the controls of his two-seater Tiger Moth and radioed back to base.
"Conducting aerobatics over 3500 feet," he said, preparing to thrill the French woman seated in front with a spinning view of sea and sky.
Then there was silence.
The four-cyclinder wooden plane had speared into the ocean, crashing about 400m off the coast of South Stradbroke Island.
http://resources2.news.com.au/images...0c394bcc3d.jpg
Tiger moth pilot Jim Rae, pictured here with wife Alice on a previous trip, was killed when his Tiger Moth crashed on Monday. Picture: Facebook




HOW THE STORY BROKE YESTERDAY
Alex James Rae, 26, had recently married and was about to embark on a new adventure with his wife Alice - the pair planning an outback move to a cattle station in the Northern Territory where they had both found work.
But last night emergency crews were working to retrieve his body and that of his passenger as the French woman's distraught partner helped police contact her family.
http://resources3.news.com.au/images...0c394bcc3d.jpg
Police search for the wreckage of the Tiger Moth. Picture: Fletcher Scott




It is understood surf life savers spotted the plane ditch into the ocean at 12.30pm, sparking a massive air and sea search.
Other pilots in the air at the time said they had no idea anything was amiss, having heard Mr Rae's voice over the radio announce he was about to perform aerial manoeuvres.
The wreckage of the Tiger Moth was spotted shortly after, having sunk 7m to the ocean floor.
http://resources1.news.com.au/images...6236de09de.jpg
Debris from the wreckage is washed up on the beach. Picture: Adam Head




Over the next few hours, pieces of the plane, including part of the propeller and its ID badge, washed into the beach.
Mr Rae, from Labrador, was one of several pilots working for Gold Coast-based Tiger Moth Joy Rides.
"We're just devastated about what's happened," owner Geoff Stillman said. "We're a very small outfit and very tight-knit, so we are all shattered."
The young pilot and adventurer, who moved to Australia from the UK with the girl he'd known since school, was about to set off on his latest adventure at the end of January.
The couple had been getting ready to move to Helen Springs, a 10,000 square kilometre cattle station in the Northern Territory.
It was to be Mr Rae's second outback adventure after he spent 18 months flying Cessnas for S Kidman and Co out of a cattle property in Southwest Queensland.
CEO Greg Campbell said Mr Rae, like many other newly-qualified commercial pilots, had completed 1000 hours flying experience with them, taking staff members between the company's vast properties and mustering cattle.
"He was a really friendly, likeable young man who always fit in well," he said.
"The respect with which he was held within our organisation was such that we were only too willing to re-employ him and his wife as well.
"It's very sad.
"I can't imagine how his wife must be holding up."
The Tiger Moth was powered by a de Havilland Gipsy Major, a four-cylinder, air-cooled, incline engine used in a variety of light aircraft produced in the 1930s.
It is believed to be the first death from the Tiger Moth Joy Ride company since it began flying in 1978.
"This is not great for this time of the year," said one operator. "It is not great for the close-knit community either. When something like this happens we all feel it.
"Jimmy was a great pilot. He was just on the radio doing a standard call out ... just before the crash happened."
Sources told The Courier-Mail Tiger Moth Joy Rides is a responsible operation with an outstanding safety record stretching back more than 30 years.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau will send a team to the site of the crash today, to begin their investigation.




No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au

Terrible ..... :(
I remember that Tiger very well from when I flew at Cooly in the 80's. Old Bruce on the radio, "Cooly Tower this is Tango Sierra Gold for a Rrrrrromeo Four November".

Condolences to all.

addition...
 

One track has said it..." serious reservations about ..aerobatics with pax in an old aeroplane (etc)....and I would add...WITHOUT parachutes!!! in any type of aircraft wood or metal

Surely, as things can and do go wrong, what price a bit of cheap "insurance" and giving those on board at least another option.

In the States where the lawyers bite hard, for even just a joy flight in a Texan, they get you kitted up and briefed.

There has been the odd occasion where the wearing of didnt make a difference to the fatal outcome, but there are many more examples where a 'chute would have made a tragic outcome just an adrenalin rush.

see the video clip of the 2 Cessnas that had a midair 'ding'...ok full of parachutist passengers anyway but the pilot of the fiery broken one could depart as well.:ok: instead of having to ride it down...as have others
RIP those Tiger 2
my 2c

I read in the media that a GoPro camera was in use. That is a video I would not want to watch. I hope and presume the footage will never go public but do realise that others could benefit from it.

I hope the media is correct this time, the Gopro footage will be of great use to investigators, and help with closure for a lot of people.

My Grandfather was an airframe rigger on Tiger Moths at Temora during the earlier war years. He doesn't have a lot of praise for them and honestly can't believe that they are still flying around the place.

I do not wish to disparage the operator or the victims of this accident but one does have to wonder about the wisdom of using ancient wood and wire flying machines in the commercial world of today... Having said that, I hate the thought of yet another restrictive rule being introduce to spoil legitimate fun and enjoyment of aviation. Unfortunately there are always risks involved in this business and someone, sometime inevitably pays the ultimate price...

My thoughts are with the families of those involved in this tragedy and I hope more definitive answers will be forthcoming compared to other recent historical aircraft crashes...

To some here who 'seem to know better'.....

I am the proud owner and operator of a DH-82A Tiger Moth aircraft, which has a plate on the side stating
Date of Manufacture May 1942.

I can assure you all that the ONLY part of that aircraft made in 1942, is THAT plate.

The rest is quite 'modern' in manufacture and covering.....

A LOT like 'Grandad's favourite axe'....four new handles & three new heads...but....still 'Grandad's favourite axe'.....

I will await the outcome of this enquiry, as I have a few questions in my head as well.
e.g. The 'Vertical dive' at 'high speed'....If I take my hands off the control column in this situation, the aircraft simply recovers from the ensuing dive.

So, the 'GoPro' may well provide a clue.

'Tis a sad occasion.
Enough said.

Well if this was in NSW the NSW Police Aviation investigator would have every diver scouring the sea floor looking for that go pro before it disappears for good. He has done this several times and with success.

If the Hemple accident is anything to go by I suggest we will not see it recovered. Lack of significant action quickly.

The Qld Police has recovered the GoPro according to Ch9 news...

Griffo, my Tiger is a complete rebuild same as yours, and the only original part is the pilots ( rear ) seat, but the rest was new via Challinor's.
and yes, mine is as yours..put into a dive and it will tend to recover on its own.

Have some of the online "experts" checked to see that there has been several AD's regarding wing spars and flying wires over the past few years, and that the Tigers you see flying around here in SE Qld, are very well maintained.
Just like G'pa's axe.

Jabba, hopefully they do raise it, as it may reveal something , but as you said its Qld and not NSW.

Maybe the Go-pro, if that rumour is correct, will reveal something, and if it does, I hope for the sake of the families , certain parts, for obvious reasons, are never made public domain.

Also just wonder with him being over the beach, did the lad collect a seagull or pelican on the wing strut ? but the witness didnt seem to suggest that it was in pieces coming down.
I do have another theory involving a stopped prop, and other Tiger pilots could guess what Im thinking.

But most important ,are thoughts to the families who have lost loved ones, especially this time of year.

That is good news at least for investigative purposes.

Maybe there was something learned after the yak. :sad:

My condolences to the family of those on board.

It will be interesting to see if the airframe is recovered by the ATSB or Qld Police and, if so, what ramifications would that have following the non-recovery of the Hempel Yak

Tiger down off Straddie
 

Some observations:
- there has been no indication as to the cause of this terrible accident, so why speculate as to the cause? It just has potential to upset the family / friends of the deceased and feed the media machine.
- I would aerobat an aircraft with timber spars before one of any other material (timber doesn't fatigue)
- "rag and tube" aircraft are stripped back to bare bones periodically (when re-covered). This doesn't happen to other construction types.
- the DH 82A was never approved to do "flick manoeuvres", however I have seen more than one flight manual with the statement "flick manoeuvres are permitted" - an omission of the word "not" was made. I have observed a DH 82A performing flick manoeuvres and when brought to the attention of the operator was told to mind my own business. I don't believe the ASIR I submitted resulted in any action.

As suggested in pervious posts, the GoPro should shed some light on what happened. This won't help the families / friends of the deceased with their losses. However, it may help prevent a re-occurrence of a similar incident.

Hi Mr 'arawa',

I could have said a lot more, but then I normally don't feed the 'ignorant trolls' who just sprout crap & like to see their name on the site.

I would think that EVERY DH-82A on the register has been 'rebuilt' - most of them more than once - and the 'old' problems of delaminating spars etc, are way behind us, one would hope!

Your suggestion is one of my thoughts also....

However, I'll leave all of that conjecture / speculation until more facts come to light.

And, if the go-pro is situated at the same site as in the 'Promo's', and intact, then there well might be an answer....

With respect,
Griffo

NSW Police also have the best (computer) media forensics people in the country. If there's footage to be recovered from a submerged GoPro they'd also be the ones to do it :ok:

Indeed you are right bankrunner. Makes me think you and I have a common friend ;)

Have to agree there, the NSW investigator knows his stuff.

I heard that there was actually two GoPro's on the machine, with only one found thus far, and intact. The ATSB will use the footage if it is salvageable, but that will remain privvy to them and the Coroner, as far as viewing it goes. Anything beyond that is tantamount to walking over the graves of the dead.
I know this is an emotive topic, but under what I would call normal circumstances (circumstances that some bloggers on here are referring to), these machines are well loved, well cared for and very well maintained. I have lost count of the passenger trips I have taken in them all over the world, and I have no fear of the craft when it is in the hands of a capable pilot and it has been nurtured with the kind of TLC normally associated with said aircraft type.
I have seen Dash 8's and Metro 3's, still flying, in frightening and appalling condition. Give me a TM over them any day.

R.I.P

Tiger Moth crash in Australia
 

Just seen this.

GoPro video camera recovered by police from Tiger Moth crash site - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Because you have a Moth that has speared into the water leaving almost no tangible pieces in tact, and most importantly, because internet.

Hopefully the waterproof gopro box doors were used... I'm not sure if the footage could be recoverable otherwise?

While the card itself might be unusable due to salt water destroying the tracks on the circuit board inside, the chips themselves reside in sealed airtight packages. They have a pretty good chance of surviving at least a short time in the drink.

As long as the leads on the chips aren't too seriously damaged, if you were to transplant the chips (flash IC(s) + controller) onto a new board in a new card, you'd have a fair chance of recovering the footage.

Thats interesting, thanks.

The Gopro camera would have used an SD or micro-SD card to store the video.

I've seen SD cards that were immersed in water for two months or have fallen off the wrists of sky divers come up good.

The basis answer is that the GoPro camera memory is probably good and able to be recovered.

There is no indication of what model of Gopro cameras were used. There may be additional information, such as GPS history, on the cards.

GoPro's don't have GPS so no hope there. If it was in the standard waterproof holder it probably survived in tact.

its not about the camera surviving, which is unlikely, its about the SD card surviving, which has a very good chance, even under water for some time