I was not aware of any specific restriction on the number of passengers for private pilots. Where did you see the 5 pax limit? Possible I may have missed something in the regs.

If you fly where radio is not required you do not have to have the endorsement.
I believe if the aerodromes are within 25nm you can fly between them.

I don't think that was the intent of the RPL (it was meant as a replacement for the GFPT and before that the Restricted Licence, that allowed you to fly between an aerodrome and its associated training area) but I think with the new wording there is nothing that specifically states you have to land at your departure aerodrome. May be wrong though.

The idea is an RPL knows how to fly the aircraft. They have not however been trained to navigate at the same time as flying the aircraft.

For that reason they are restricted to flying in the vicinity of their departure point, to avoid getting themselves lost.

Typically navigation training involves around 9 flights (including 2 supervised solo flights) of increasing complexity, averaging several hours in duration. You typically will add around 30 hours of flight time to your log book. That is why the cost.

With a PPL you are entitled to carry passengers, operate in controlled airspace and at controlled aerodromes (basically you can fly anywhere in Australia and potentially overseas).

There is a MTOW restriction for the RPL but there is no such limitation for PPL. I believe there must have been one in the former versions of the regulations and the idea that PPL holders are limited to flying aircraft with an MTOW of 5700 kg is still being circulated but there is no such limit in the current ones.

As demid wrote, the limiting factor will most probably be the MTOW of your wallet. Most private operations involving a pilot and their mates will involve some form of cost sharing, in which case there is an explicit mention of 6 occupants, ie. the pilot + 5 passengers. Incidentally the wording says "sharing the costs equally". While it is a certainty that a private pilot may make no profit from the operation, no provision seems to be made for passengers wishing to just "chip in" and not sharing costs equally.

@ChaeBaee:
If money is a concern and hence making you consider the RPL + all endorsements, my advice is to consider this alternative: just skip the RPL and all those endorsements altogether and go straight for the PPL. As a RPL is no prerequisite for a PPL (as some schools would wrongly have you think – or are just happy to keep you confused), you can embark on the PPL right away. The syllabus up until navigations will be the same anyway but the good news is, you'll also just sit a single CASA exam (PPLA instead of RPLA). You'll cover the training of those radio, CTA/CTR, and navigation endorsements as part of the PPL training. If you add everything up, you'll find that going for PPL straightaway may take you a little longer to act as PIC but won't leave you much poorer and certainly will give you many more privileges.

Also worth noting: unless you're going to fly in your own aircraft, I found people reluctant to hire out to RPL holders. I can't blame them. The R in RPL means just that, you're a recreational pilot. Most will also ask for at least a PPL plus minimum time on type. Obviously you should always be able to hire from the school you trained with but that's a bit restrictive and schools charge you a fortune on VDO time. If you're flying out of a larger aerodrome, say YPJT, reach out to LAMEs. They often have a couple of airplanes that they're happy to hire out on flight switch at much, much lower hourly rates.

My advice is to go straight through to PPL rather than mess around with an RPL and all those endorsements. There is no requirement to do an RPL and it gives you no exemptions when you do a PPL. If the school insists on it, shop around.

The radio and CTA and/or CTR exams are most probably in-house exams to ensure your theory is up to scratch for the grant of those endorsements. And, yes, if you're operating in and out of Jandakot, you'll automatically cover the training part of those endorsements as part of your flight training anyway. This wouldn't be the case if you were getting a RPL from a flight school operating at an uncontrolled aerodrome (at least not the CTR part) and would require further training.

Keep in mind that the PPL curriculum is just the RPL training + the navigation part. If you wish to have a licence at this mid point, then you'll have to sit the BAK and pass the flight test to obtain a RPL. With said RPL, some flight schools will let you fly the solo navs of the PPL training at the solo rate. Others will still charge you the dual rate (they claim that they're "supervising" you, hence the fee but it's mostly a sham).

If you forgo the RPL and carry on straight to the PPL, you'll save on the intermediate flight test and licence issuance fees.

Any flight school that tells you that you must do the RPL as a prerequisite for PPL is dishonest.

Do read the attached CASA flight crew licencing manual, esp. the table at §6.3.

You can choose which path (RPL->PPL or PPL only), further into your training if you want.

Generally schools will show costs to a RPL standard on the PPL path because you *do* have to be at the RPL skill standard at some point even if you don't do the flight test for the RPL or the exam so don't get an RPL. The training to that point is the same.

RPL == you can safely operate the aircraft as pilot in command - you need to reach this skill standard whether you obtain an actual RPL or not
PPL == you can navigate and operate in various airspace whilst flying the aircraft as pilot in command

By not getting an RPL you don't need the RPL flight test or exam.

Some people choose an RPL even if they are going to PPL because they want to take a passenger, are happy flying locally and want some tangible qualification at that point. Often they take a break in their training at this point as well.

Others just want to push through. You don't have to choose at the start.

That's all very true, especially the bit where you have a choice! You don't have to chose until you are at that point in your training.

Since the RPL came in five years ago only one student of mine has chosen to do it.

Also there are some schools that are still treating it like a GFPT and have not covered everything in the RPL syllabus, instead telling people that they need more and more real and imaginary endorsements to do things that the RPL syllabus covers. This is why I am reluctant to hire to RPLs.

Hi All,

I have been a long time reader of pprune so I am across previous posts in this thread and in the wannabe section. As an introduction, I have just turned 39, married, kids, and mortgage. I have made the decision to pursue the dream of career pilot. If you think I shouldn't chase the dream, please don't comment - I might be a stubborn fool but I have only felt regret my entire life for not doing this earlier and now I have got to the point where I can no longer tolerate not having a go. I'm not going into this blind (metaphorically or literally - Class 1 medical approved) - I understand how hard this is going to be. I have worked my way up to my RPL and am continuing flying as much as I can afford (approx. av. 1 hr per week). This translates to getting my CPL at or around 41 years old and so far I have enjoyed every minute of flying.

If anyone has any advice on how I can make myself attractive to an employer I'd value any comments or PMs to assist me. I would like to know if I should get the MECIR after CPL to make me employable or if there is a reasonable chance to secure a job with CPL only - I understand this may require moving but would prefer a FIFO or commuter job - do these exist at the CPL level? I am happy to do anything from RAAus or G3 junior instructor through to airline SO - whatever it takes.

I also flew roughly 20 hours about 15 years ago but the flying school I did this through lost my logbook (they also didn't treat me very well which is one of the reasons I didn't continue back then)- can anyone think of any way I can evidence these flying hours or have them recognised towards my CPL?

I think a cadetship is out of the question as I cannot afford to not work for 12-18 months but if there are other suggestions I am happy to listen.

All opinions and comments from seasoned professionals and starters like me are valued. If I can learn from other people's experiences then hopefully that will assist me, so thank you in advance for accepting me on this site and providing any guidance.

Toughen up, get a PPL.

To be a true pilot you must fly across Australia. Try and time it for the Avalon Airshow. You'll learn a ridiculous amount of navigation, runway selection, fuel planning and contingency skills that you will never get from a jolly around the metro area.

Better yet, do a NVFR after that too - the circuits at night, in summer, are a lot of fun, especially if you can pop the canopy (according to the POH) on your aircraft.

Doing those night circuits with minimal or constant wind down the runway - it really hones all the skills especially if you do it not long after the PPL and the cross-wind landings night-landings away-from-base are exhilarating. Black hole landings and the instrument reversion really were mentally-satisfying to me, event when the lighting went out at 100 feet AGL. Early computer gaming experience perhaps helped here? PS - Yes, that was a go-around to reactivate PAL, instructor aboard, with a crappy PAL that couldn't be reset, and lighting shutdown was known to be imminent.

Based on my personal experience... age isn't so much a factor as the three other things you mentioned in your intro... namely wife, kids and mortgage. They will impact on your "mobility" and could mean, depending on your current location, that your options for finding employment might be somewhat limited.

As for the MEIR, it really depends on what it is that you're actually trying to achieve... You say you're happy to do RAAus or instructing, but is that the end goal? or are you saying you'll do that to get to your end goal of an "airline" job? If you're going to be happy instructing, the MEIR can probably wait until you want to move onto G2 or G1 etc... If you're after a charter/RPT/airline type career, then the MEIR is probably something you should consider sooner rather than later (finances permitting). You never know when that "big break" will come along and you'll kick yourself if you miss out.

The 20 hours from earlier would have been helpful, but the missing logbook effectively means they don't exist. Why were you not keeping your own logbook? :confused: As a pilot, your logbook is your responsibility. The only way I could think of to "find" those hours would be to track down your old instructor(s) and get the information from their logbook(s)... I take it that isn't really an option given your bad experience with the previous flying school? :ouch:


Also, one last piece of advice... make sure that your wife fully understands what is going on... be open and honest, she is likely to end up making a lot more sacrifices than you!

@Cloudee:

I was going to reply to that but then I realised that you were being utterly ironic :D

(If not, please advise and I'll be happy to shoot holes in your claims)

Flying school costs in Australia
 

Hey there,

I have taken the decision to go ahead and be a commercial pilot. I am from Europe but I would like to study and then work as a pilot here in Australia.

I am on a budget, I am just basically saving most of my income to hopefully start in a couple of years. I have found some schools on google but they are more expensive than I expected.

Could anybody recommend any "budget" schools around Sydney?

I found cheaper schools in Canada with great reviews from students, I will go there if I don't find any cheap school in Australia.

Any help will be much appreciated.

Cheers

Being responsible for a student on their solo nav flights is not something I take lightly.

I would not be on my lonesome.

CASA regulatory costs are forcing flying schools out of business in Australia.

Pay peanuts and mostly you get monkeys.

Flying training in Canada, USA and New Zealand is - or was - all less expensive than Australia, but air fares and overseas accommodation costs may balance up the numbers somewhat.

Well, I hope you never become an instructor because the idea that all that responsibility should be done for nothing is the reason instructor wages are so rubbish.
Some places have a "supervised solo" rate, somewhere between hire and dual, to cover the wages of the supervising instructor.
Meanwhile there are places charging a fortune for pre-flight briefings, how much of that does the instructor get?

No point getting an Australian CPL without having residency or citizenship.

Best to come here, do the PPL and build hours, then go back to Europe to do the modular CPL there.

USA about half what it will cost you in Australia. Pretty much the same in NZ with some fantastic scenery to fly over.
In either country hassle free, unlike Australia. We took the best of British bureaucracy and refined it into an art form with aviation.

Low hour volunteer GA pilot jobs sydney
 

Hi all fresh out of flight school and am eager to start looking for a job, willing to do volunteer GA flying within Sydney appreciate some help or ideas for job hunting especially with such a large community pilot base here on PPRuNE!
My qualifiactions are: 220 hours flight with a muilti-engine command instrument rating, commercial pilot license and ATPL theory

What is "volunteer" GA flying?
Are you saying your willing to fly for free?

Just to give you a little of my personal experience.

I'm an Australian that left for the USA to specifically flight train around 7 years ago after realizing the cost was piling up after working on my GFPT. The training was cheaper, more laid back, a huge variety of flying and an amazing infrastructure to fly in also. Opportunities for career progression are plentiful at all levels here also if you decide to stay.

Good luck with your training!

I understand that you want to work here in Australia. However, is that work and live forever? Are your friends / family mainly in Europe?

What I'm getting to is figuring our where you want to fly is a very important question - long term.

Should you decide to work in Australia and move back to Europe then you have relocation costs. Your CASA license will need to be converted to an EASA license - same if you want to train in Canada or the US. Regardless of when you will relocate, costs will be associated with conversions. Not to mention the time involved in relocating and studying for the conversion exams.

You avoid those by going - here's were I want to fly and live for the rest of my flying career. Wherever that may be, get your license there, look for work there and fly there. Opportunities are everywhere but are only seen by those putting an effort in to look for them.

Clare Prop's point is a deal break - you can't work here if you do not have the legal right. No point in trying to get a sponsorship post training, that won't work. You need to get that sorted prior to commencing training. If residency is not an issue, then you're over one 1 hurdle.

It sounds like your in the planning stage and don't expect to be training in a few years time. Take this time to study theory of whichever license you're endeavour to get. Study now whilst you can as it will make the training easier when that happens - you can buy all the books online.

Remember a review is just a person's point of view. It's human nature to have different points of views. What might work for one might not work for another. No point in investing your money and time in a school based on someone's point of view. You need to determine whether it is right for you. If that means paying them a visit then so be it. You'll be thankful in putting down $2k for a flight and a visit to them and realising it's not for you or putting down $100k when the time comes and it does not work due to the school.

Lastly, don't try and budget this - wherever you will go, training costs money. It's your responsibility to make sure there is a return on your investment, in the form of a career.

I wish you well.

What does a responsible instructor do when their student is sent out solo that justifies the latter to pay dual rate? Serious question.

I'm obviously not saying that any work (of value) on the instructor part should be at no cost for the student but I find that charging as much as dual rate on solo navigations is nothing short of fraud. I'd be happy to be educated to the contrary, that is.

Let me guess, you want to "volunteer" because:
a) Your parents funded your entire CPL and ATPL theory
b) You live at home with your parents and so you can just sit back, do a bit of part time work, bit of "volunteering", and have a cruisy lifestyle, all whilst getting those hours up before applying for the big airline gig
c) both a and b
d) none of the above / apologies for making assumptions

What is concerning is that you have made it all the way through your CPL and you have no idea of how frowned upon the idea of volunteering really is. Suggest you search for the topic on these forums and get an idea on what would happen to the industry if "volunteering" became a thing.

The other thing that surprises me is that the vast majority of pilots have gone through so many sacrifices, hardships, disappointments, rejections etc and most did it the hard way (went bush / military / overseas). Yet from your short and most likely unintentionally naive post, you are looking for the easy option. Please just do yourself a favour and get informed, do some research, speak to some pilots but primarily - read these forums.

Can I ask where / what sort of flight school you went to? I'm curious to know how you can spend 2 years at a place and come up with such a concept as "GA volunteer work"

As someone eloquently said so above, it may be a good idea to start your journey with an Aussie PPL first and defer the decision to pursue your career down under to a later stage. Converting a PPL between ICAO member countries is a relatively straightforward task. If you really like so much here and, assuming that you work out a working visa for yourself, then you could just carry on with a CPL and so on. Canada, the US and New Zealand came up as alternatives. If you're on a shoestring, you also have to consider the cost of living where Australia still comes with a certain price tag. While there may be other factors why you favor Australia (lover, surfing, roos, ...), I'd actually also consider South Africa. Have a look at http://www.mbsf.co.za for instance. The quote for an ab initio CPL + multi engine instrument rating is RAND 363k, or around EUR 23k at this time, additionally you'll still be able to afford a very comfortable lifestyle on a typical European low budget. This is just one school I happen to have heard from, and is in no way an exception to the average flight training fees in South Africa.

Their employer? If they spend their time while the student is on the nav doing paperwork, or even a quick session of circuits with another student, do they get paid double?

The business owner is responsible for paying their employees. The business owner sets the rates that they charge customers. The customer gets to make the judgement as to whether the rate is fair value.

The only link between what the customer pays and what the employee gets paid is that - overall - customers need to pay enough to cover employee wages, other overheads and hopefully make a profit.

Okijara, I run a one man band flying school and need to earn as much as possible to keep it viable. If I turn up for work and spend the day there I need to get a days wages regardless of whether I sit in the aircraft or not. Often I turn up and due to weather or whatever, I actually earn nothing at all for that day. I commit no fraud whatsoever! It is never what I earn in a day, a week or even a month. What makes my business viable is what I earn in a year. Some days it is north of 1K and the average student would think I was making a fortune. That 1K quickly divides when I turn up for a single hour of dual the following day and the day after is not VFR.

Some of my students are doctors, some are tradesman. both these professions charge more per day and earn more per year. I would argue that I deserve at least as much as a tradesman. I was one once. Sadly I fall way short over 12 months but the lifestyle makes up for it.

RHSandLovingIt Thanks for your comments. In reverse order... My wife is understanding and has already made sacrifices beyond any expectations just so I can get as far as I have. I couldn't want for a better partner in my life. It will be a struggle to continue to fund my flying and not have this affect my ability to give the kids everything they want in their life but careful planning and budgeting will hopefully allow for me to chip away slowly.

I was wet behind the ears when I accrued those first few hours and the flight school told me, in no uncertain terms, "the logbook lives here [in the flight office bookcase]" so that's where it stayed. In hindsight I should have taken it, as you are correct, it was/is my ultimate responsibility. Live and learn. I couldn't even tell you the names of my instructors from back then so I'll just write that one off as a life learning experience.

As for end jobs, Number one on my list is an airline job - shiny jet syndrome? Maybe. But that is what I want and that is the goal. I'll do anything to get there. Having said that, I also have pragmatism and understand that I could be 45-50 before the opportunity presents itself - (I'm not buying into the pilot shortage)... and would an airline even take on a 50 year old 'graduate'?

If it doesn't come to pass, anything that puts me in the air brings a smile to my face [literally every time] so instructing, GA, charter and anything in between would still fill the hole in my life and bring me the satisfaction I have been seeking for nearly 40 years.

Thanks again for your comments.

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• No advertising or promoting of business/commercial ventures.
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Aussie Bob
I understand the point you're making and I would never suggest that flight instructor is any less deserving than the other professions you're mentioning. I believe your case, being a one man operation, makes it somewhat special too because you're obviously not that 20+ year old instructor who just happens to be there to clock in enough time to get your FO position in the first place. To add some flesh to the bone of my argument, please understand it so:

1. The solo rate covers the aircraft costs and yields a profit, the dual rate covers the instructor fee on top of the solo rate. That's how most people see it. I wouldn't know that time done at dual rate covers utility bills for instance, but I might be wrong.
2. My remark was made in the context of a larger YMMB flight school, one of those with an average of 10+ junior instructors, and where students are akin to cash cows that can be milked and tossed around, where scheduled lessons can be cancelled at short notice to accommodate for TIFs (a classic – my time is an infinitely flexible resource but yours isn't).

I have a feeling that you nurture both a more personal and professional relationship to your students and that's without a doubt much appreciated. Your students probably graduate with fewer hours too. As for the greedier flight schools, my message to prospective students is: beware of shiny good looks. It is an unfortunate reality that the schools that seem to worry more about their popularity on instagram than the actual value they offer are incidentally also those that thrive these days but that doesn't correlate with quality instruction.

From the student's perspective, I honestly can't really say what warrants being charged dual rate on solo navigations. That's from my personal experience having had instructors that couldn't seem to care less. Solo navigation routes were all predefined, thus allowing little to no degree of freedom, to aerodromes that had been previously visited. Preflight briefings involved minimal input, debriefings were more proforma and often had to be deferred to the following day because said instructor was out flying with another student when I'd return. On that basis, I would never have accepted to pay dual rate.

I do believe that today's technology could add elements that involve more inputs from the instructor on solo navigations though, e.g. record cockpit audio and video and analyse the footage during debriefing for instance, or have the instructor call you (bluetooth pairing) at 10 nm inbound and follow your broadcasts and joining procedure and be available for queries.

Ultimately, I concur with you that one can't objectively assess a school on the basis of what it charges alone. Unfortunately, there's currently a lack of good metric out there to compare flight schools. Moreover, I understand most people are recreational or private pilots, i.e. one-offs who will ever only be students at a single school, and hence have no means of comparison, and once licenced, won't need one any more. Most reviews are polarised (and often biased with instructors themselves leaving comments) offering no objective insights. Schedules of fees based on CASA minimums are also meaningless. So here's an improvement: schools should dare to advertise the average costs their students incurred to obtain their licence. Better yet would be the distribution thereof. Or the average pass rate on the first flight test attempt. The average difference between flight time and total engine time. Those are the metrics that don't lie and really count in my opinion.

Would you mind sharing a bit more about the path you took and where you've ended up and what doing? The US is a path I have considered myself. I am assuming you were able to use the E3 visa?

Don't tar all instructors and schools with the one brush. The school I work for charges first solo at the dual rate (1st solo, 1st area solo, 1st nav solo) and subsequent solos at the solo rate however still pays the supervising instructor the same rate as dual (ie the business wears the cost). Because the instructor is expected to be working when supervising.

What work you ask?

As a supervising instructor (eg for 2nd solo nav) they should check the weather and notams (often well in advance of the student), make sure the aircraft has been given its daily and is available, (again usually before the student arrives). On the basis of the weather they will have already decided what the risks are and if they think it should proceed. On arrival they will get the student to brief them on the weather and will check their flightplan before departure. It is not unknown to notice they have totally stuffed one leg with a reciprocal heading or miscalculation of wind. They will raise issues about notams the student has missed so better be sure they checked them first. They must brief the student on what is expected - eg where to land (in some cases they need to make 2 full stop landings), what issues they may encounter, to remind them about the weather conditions (if appropriate) and what options they have if they encounter problems. They will discuss the decsion to proceed and what they should do and not do, all using their professional judgement, training and experience.

After the student departs, the instructor will not be out of contact until they return, ie they cannot leave work, whether they have other students, briefings, other work *or not* in that time or are sitting in the office idle, they need to be available. They cannot just knock off and go home.

If the student calls ("I am at Dubbo and the ptt switch is not working - what do I do?", "I am at Goulburn and there seem to be lots of thunderstorms on the way home, should I stay here the night?"), they need to be available and give appropriate advice.

If the student isn't back and the instructor is concerned that they should be, the instructor is the one who is expected to call their mobile to see if all is OK. When the mobile doesn't respond and their concern is sufficient, they will be the one who will call flight service and asks if the aircraft can be raised on radio. They will also be the one who sits sweating when they hear back that flight service cannot raise them. They will be the one double checking their sartime and their calculated endurance after finding out earlier in the flight, they revised it. They will be the one ringing people they might know at any of the airports the student may have landed at.

They are the ones who silently sigh with relief when they hear the student turn up inbound. On arrival they will ask them how it went, remind them to cancel their sartime, ask them if they heard Melbourne centre calling them and ask them what frequency they were on and hear them sheepishly admit they forgot to switch from a CTAF frequency for most of the return leg and discuss any other issues they may have had or questions that arise.

They will be the one who updates their training record and makes sure it is all in order for when CASA audits the school. They will be the one who has to explain to the CFI if they are any discrepencies, and whether all requirements have been met and details completed.

They will also be the one who will be asked to explain why the student penetrated control airspace without a clearance, had they been appropriately trained and what the instructor and school will be doing to insure that doesn't happen again.

God forbid, if something nasty happens, they will be Johnny on the spot, contacting those who need to know and later they will be the ones who will be quizzed, why did the instructor judge the student capable of this flight alone? did they appropriately brief them? check their plan? train them? overlook anything? etc.

You think paying them for this work is fraud? Instructor wages are generally the lowest in the industry as it is. That is the nature of the game. Pay them more and ask students to pay more and you would find students would walk away. Pay them more and ask the school to subsidise that? Schools would fold - it is not viable. You want to instruct? It is not the gravy train end of the industry. Do it because you want to. Even if you are looking beyond instructing, do it because you want to, not because you must. There are many schools with instructors who enjoy instructing and want to offer good value to their students and employer.

Supervising solo students is a serious responsibility and I think it appropriate to recognise and reward people for it. Most other jobs pay people to be on call or to be the person in charge of ensuring a safe and successful outcome. ATC are not paid by the number of aircraft they handle or times they push the radio button on any day. Tower controllers at a GA aerodrome who spend a wet and windy monday doing little because no one is flying still get paid the same for being there. Doctors on call who aren't called will still be paid. Why not instructors assuming responsibility for a school's reputation and particularly an individual student's and aircraft's safety?


Are there some schools who do not act responsibly? Yes. You seem to have found one. That school is not all schools. Don't tar all with the same brush.

Not all schools are full of junior instructors with no love (or work ethic) for instructing and who are only hour building and see instructing (and students) as a necessary evil in their journey.

You want to find a good school? Shop around, visit schools, talk to their students, see what they offer.
Don't look just at price but at the experience level of their staff and their focus on their customers.
See what sort of training they specialise in.
See if you like their style (different schools cater for different types of students), judge if you feel they want to offer you something more than the minimum.

Sometimes good value means paying more.



Diatribe over.

I was fortunate to have working rights from family history. I have a friend who is over here on an E3 visa at a regional and from the sounds of it, your choices of employment may be a little more limited until you obtain full working rights.

I got my ratings simply through local schools of my own choosing. Eventually cracked it as an employed pilot and worked for an aerial mapping company before being hired by a regional airline for a few years. With some luck and hard work, I'm now employed by a top 4 major US airline.

@Jonkster
Point(s) taken. Thanks for that very detailed answer, much appreciated. Between licences, endorsements and ratings, I changed schools a total of 4 times now and have flown with a good many different blokes, but I have yet to meet the level of commitment and involvement you express. While I mostly agree with you, with all due respect, you don't strike me as the average instructor either. I expect that there will be others like you out there, albeit in a minority. Like I said, finding the right instructor is – unfortunately – a bit of hit-and-miss, mostly miss. In summary, yes, there's definitely a point to pay extra for good value, even on solo navigations.

Thanks Jonkster.
I have a rate for supervised solo that reflects that the instructor also gets paid a lower hourly rate for supervision than if they are flying. Sure they might be "double dipping" if they are doing another flight while the student is out solo, but they still have a double responsibility at the time...plus they have to stay at the airport until the student returns.
It would be very unreasonable to expect the instructor to take on that responsibility for "free" and sure, there is not enough fat around to cover the wages if the student is given the aircraft at the hire rate.
A lot of people want things for nothing when they are students and feel they are getting ripped off when in fact what they want to do is rip off the instructor...then want a fair rate when they become instructors.
The rate isn't just their wages, partly as a return on their investment in becoming an instructor; but also the cost to the school of their induction course, drug testing, standardisation check rides, renewals, uniforms, super, compo, etc etc. Now some schools cheat on that with sham contracting, which is disgraceful and no instructor should ever accept that. The other thing is the trend to charge a big chunk for pre flight briefings and only give the instructor a paltry 20% or so of what they charge.
So to agree with Jonkster, the hourly rate is not a guide to the value you will get per dollar. Get a different junior instructor with their heads in the clouds each time and watch the money disappear without you getting value for it.
And never, ever pay up front for flying training. If a school demands that they may be trading insolvent and then you (and your instructor) will be an unsecured creditor if/when the locks get changed.

TAFE aviation course
 

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for the reply on my previous post.
I am in the processes of finalizing my flight school/training. I have found a few options one is a full time 'Diploma of Aviation' through TAFE, does anyone have any feedback on the course they offer? I have met with them already and they seem a organised professional outfit. It will provide me with CPL and 163 hours including 13 night hours. This is obviously very appealing as the HELP loans are also offered.

Thanks for any help guys

Applying To The Majors
 

Hi All,

I'm getting to the point in my career that I need to start thinking about applying for the majors! I have a frozen ATPL, approaching 1500hrs total, 400 multi engine turbo prop command along with that. The ultimate dream goal would be to get into Qantas or Virgin. I'm after some advice on what pre-interview prep would be best, study materials, sim, interview preparation companies, etc. And also some thoughts on what to do, as I'm currently bonded for $20k for the next couple of years with my current job, and I am really enjoying the work I'm currently doing. However, I don't want to miss the opportunity at the moment with all this movement about.

I see that Qantas and Jetstar aren't accepting applications at the moment, so that makes that an easy choice, and Virgin 737 NZ applications close on March 31. I don't particularly want to leave my current job at the moment, so if I was successful in an interview and job offer, would I be able to delay a commencement date if given one earlier than I'd ideally like? I'm under the impression that if successful with Virgin, I wouldn't be given a start date at the moment as I don't have my ATPL or an MCC, is this correct? I would still like to remain where I am for a while after obtaining my ATPL.

Are Qantas or Jetstar likely to open up applications any time soon, and if so, would pilots be placed on hold? I've heard rumours that they're both fine at the moment but potentially towards the end of the year things may begin to move again.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated, especially if it gets me thinking from an angle I haven't yet considered. I understand that a lot of my questions may be difficult to answer and what might be correct today, the answer in a months time could be drastically different.

Thanks in advanced!

Hi Mate. Before others jump in and tell you the reality of "majors" job prospective, i would just say with your current flight time hrs you stand a greater chance to join USA regionals on the E3 visa initiative than getting local jobs. Completion is high and you got the guys/ladies coming from DXB & Asia with "heavy jet time" all wanting the same job you want. So look into the USA regional thing, jet some jet and command time over there and after 5 or so years you maybe in the same level field with the "heavy" guys.