Folks ( And Jack please note)

A brief look at AIP Gen 3.4, page 51 may be enlightening to some of you as to the formal situation ---- and any thing to do with takeoff and landing clearances ( and clearances in general) should be very formal.

(1) If you need time on the runway, the call is" (callsign), request lineup (X seconds)", X denoting the time required on the runway.

Jack, if the operation requires it --- and this is up to the pilot in command, it is quite correct to nominate the time needed, but the local phraseology needs smartening up.

(2) If you have called ready at the holding point, a clearance for takeoff can, but does not require a rolling takeoff, but the time lined up must be minimal.

(3) If the tower requires a rolling takeoff , the clearance to the aircraft at the holding point will be " (Call sign) cleared for immediate takeoff".

If you want to let the tower know you can do a rolling takeoff, you can say '(Call sign) ready immediate" as you approach or are at the holding point.

In this area, the Australian AIP and Australian practice is generally consistent with ICAO Doc. 9432 (and Doc. 4444 and Annex X), which is also referred to in the AIP as the source of phraseologies not contained in the Australian AIP.

Based on what is reported here, both the flying school CFI and instructors, and the tower staff, need a standards refresher.

The above fundamental phraseology is nothing new, indeed it has remained unchanged for at least as long as I have been flying, which is over 50 years.

Tootle pip!!

Another non standard call that has crept in, pending clearance springs to mind. Someone heard someone say it and thought it was cool. Now every man and his cessna is saying it.

Pretty sure there was a thread regarding this on here a lil while ago.

Sometimes a ten second delay is what's needed to get the job done in a training environment Jack. Just the way it is.

It used to specify "rolling start" in the GAAP section of AIP. Disappeared when "D" came along (giant leap forward!) and the whole chapter was deleted.
Not just short fields wanting the 10 seconds at AF anymore - no real problem, just means more waiting when it's a bit tight.

WRONG!

AIP says: REQUEST LINE-UP [REQUIRE (required number of seconds delay in lined-up position before departure) SECONDS ON RUNWAY]

:rolleyes:

Since when?

nice one ozzie mozzie! :D

Come on............lead, dood, the only time I've asked for a 10 second delay (and I have) is when I've ****** up & haven't latched a shoulder harness or door.

You blokes whinge when you get sent round cos some clown requests a 10 second delay.

Sit quietly and count 1 banana, 2 banana etc. 10 seconds is a friggin' long time in ATC land. If your brutha pilot requests a 10 second delay, don't whinge :ugh:

Not debating that if time is required for checks, the call can be used.

Just questioning why after years (and I've been operating at AF for over fifteen of them now) of every other operator being able to conduct SFTO without needing to requst time for what is essentially a three second operation, we are suddenly hearing this request on almost every second departure (it would seem).

Even flying turboprops (that do require time to spool up) out of short strips, I've yet to hear this call made in the real world for this purpose.:rolleyes:

Amazing awhole thread about nothing, thanks Ozzie Mossie for injecting some sanity into this.

When all is said and done isnt the object of the exercise to communicate clearly to the talking traffic lights your intentions without resorting to Swahili.

Bloggs,
Please explain what is different about what I said, and what the AIP says, and what is so wrong about what I said ---said in plain language, so even you can understand.

Do you understand that the phrases in the AIP are not the only phrases that may be used, as is now recognized in Australia, as part of ICAO compliance.

As to "ready immediate", I guess this is just a matter of your limited experience and knowledge of the relevant ICAO Docs., for which I have provided a reference, and related advisory material --- particularly the recommendations for plain language communications, and commons sense use by experienced pilots.

Precisely the point made in the ICAO docs.

Tootle pip!!

Unbelievable. Read what you wrote and what AIP says. Oh don't bother, I'll point it out again: you're supposed to say "REQUIRE 10 SECONDS ON RUNWAY. Get it now?

Actually, I did hop onto the net and have a good look. I couldn't find a current copy of the ICAO doc without paying for it (not worth it) but I did find old copies, and also the current CAP 413 from the poms. Nowhere is "Ready Immediate" mentioned. I therefore assume that this is a dreamt-up call by somebody who thought it was a good idea at the time (a bit like the call that started this thread) that has assumed quasi-official status like so many other calls in use these days. So how about putting your money where your mouth is and showing us where this call is in any even semi-official publication?

Swahili to some, but actually fairly straightforward. Is it so hard to say "require 10 seconds on the runway". Better to do a bit of study and learn/say the right words (learn it once and it will stick) than blubbering, spluttering, umming, arrring and generally clogging up the airwaves with verbal diarrhoea.

Are you ready for immediate T/O is quite often used by controllers at YPJT clearly seeking info to help in separation when on only 1 runway.

Part of the clear and concise communication construct, in the 50 years I have held a license I must confess this is the silliest discussion I have witnessed.

Yes and I used to hear 'keep it rolling, cleared for take-off' at AF, not so much lately though

I generally always request a 10 second delay so that I can find a good playlist on my ipod before takeoff because I don't like flying without some mad beats cranking.

That takes you 10 seconds? You must be Gen X or previous?? :=