Empty sky:

Pilot to Willy Control: "Request clearance overhead Williamtown to Taree at 2500 if available"

Willy Control: "Clearance not available ...."
(Lets send this Cessna jerk up the beach at 500" after making him orbit at Nobbys a few times .....)

Surely the 'if available' is superfluous.

It is, I do it as well harrowing, guess I have a bit of Canadian in me or something :P

How much can a Canadian 'bear'...??

Cheers

an awful lot- especially if he drank Canada Dry.

My bad, perhaps that is why the clearances are not that forthcoming ......

You're too polite Aussie Bob, stop letting yourself get pushed around by those ATC jerks, DEMAND!! :D

My bad? Aussie?

I spent 45 years in ATC. 18 in Australia and 27 in Hong Kong. I strongly object to the term ‘ATC jerks’ Ixixly. What about the pilot jerks? There are jerks in every occupation. In my career I have had to use the following phraseology 5 times. “xxx turn right/left immediately heading zzz, terrain ahead. Maximum rate of climb.” These have all occurred with departures turning towards terrain in IMC immediately after becoming airborne. Ever tried to convince a pilot on instruments that he/she is heading towards terrain? They don’t believe you. I’ve also had to tell 2 aircraft to turn and climb when on instrument approaches. One DC10 was 1800’ when he should have been at 4500’. This was in the days of no labels on the approach radar screen. Very luckily the long grange radar did have labels and for the reason I don’t know to this day, I looked across at it and couldn’t believe what I was seeing. The other was a B747 that turned early on an ILS approach and headed straight towards a 3000’ mountain while on descent. Thank goodness that on each of those occasions the pilots concerned listened to ATC.

I’ve had aircraft nose to nose that have punched through their altitudes on climb and descent, (including Australia’s favourite airline.) Aircraft that have descended on the Glide Path while not established on the Localizer.

The thing is that as pilots, you never hear about ATC “saves”. In Hong Kong we had had at least 4 attempted take-offs on a taxiway at night. Each one was saved by the controller issuing a “stop immediately” instruction. On one occasion there was a sweeper truck on the taxiway.

Over the years I have been an advocate for better understanding between pilots and controllers. Before I retired, I used to look after Cathay Pacific Command Course pilots visiting ATC. The most common remark from those pilots was “I thought I knew how ATC worked but until this visit, I really had no idea.”

I have experienced hundreds of hours on aircraft flight decks. I think I have a pretty good idea what goes on and what pilots want from me. The longest I’ve ever had a pilot plugged in watching what I do was a QANTAS Captain friend of mine who sat with me for 10 minutes. Before you start making remarks about ATC jerks, why don’t you try and learn more about the other side of the microphone.

My apologies ClearedIGS, It was meant entirely tongue in cheek with my comment and I certainly appreciate everything ATC does for us.

Let's not turn this into one of those threads Squawk, ATC do a Hard job that they get paid for and so do Pilots, nothing wrong with some healthy rivalry which was the intention of my post but no need for that, keep this as a bit of fun like it was intended!

ClearedIGS, I think you are taking what is an amusing thread too seriously. I am also sure Willie ATC never refereed to me as a Cessna jerk either but that is what I wrote. I have respect for all controllers, including the Willie ones who, over they years, have often given me exactly what I asked for.

Too seriously? I think not. While this may be a light-hearted thread, to read what ClearedIGS has said about his not inconsiderable experiences is the best "from the horse's mouth" that I have encountered in years. (Most of us have our sensitivities. Best to disregard a smattering of invective here and there.)

Anyone with enough cash can be a pilot. Not so much ATC.

I’m not taking the thread too seriously and I'm all for a bit of fun. I’ve been quite happy to put up with the jokes and comments about ATC for 45 years. In fact I’ve even contributed some of my own. I also have a few of my own about pilots and most of my closest friends are pilots. It was the terminology “ATC jerks” I objected to.

Jerks? What is a jerk?

True story. Two members of the Aero Club of Southern Tasmania have fueled up at Devonport prior to crossing Bass Strait to Victoria.

They are putting on their life-jackets. One says to the other, while showing him the red toggle. .. . "Bill , if it comes to it, you will have give this a tug, okay?" "WTF do you mean by that ? " "Well it says it here on this label - JERK TO INFLATE."

(Tasmania is not only home to a hundred appalling incest 'jokes'.)

I recall a tower controller at the aerodrome I was instructing at, who was bought some introductory flying lessons by his wife, as he had always wanted to try flying.

His first flight and unlike most students at that point he said he was happy to make the radio calIs (and I assumed radio was not going to be a problem) but... right from the taxi call he got it wrong, said things he didn't need to, missed readbacks, and got it all backwards (and was given lots of attitude in the responses from his mates in the tower who knew it was him, "ABC say again aircraft type", "what are your intentions", "ABC I require read back of..." etc etc as well as them adding in some additional curly requirements to make him even more miserable :))

He said afterwards he assumed he would be fine but because all his experience was from the ATC side, when he went to do the aircraft side of the radio he got himself all out of order.

Worse thing for him was after the flight his shift in the tower started where he continued to cop curry poor bugger.

Makes you wish some people would grow up and know when its okay to be a little frivolous and when to get on with the job in hand without the distraction of , in this case, a bunch of smart-arses . After years of being 'in the loop' , you get to appreciate the true wits (with a short , sharp quip (e.g.the late 'Binos') ) , and to suffer the petty, puerile pricks who, when they are hogging the mic, need to know when to change hands.

"Sequence has changed. Cross (X) at amended (Y)"
Someone in another sector is stuffing with the times to avoid vectoring/holding

"Amended STAR when you're ready"
Yes, I know you'll have to wait to cross an active runway now. No, I didn't make this decision.

"In with the ground, say again"
Someone just opened the line and started talking all over my traffic

"Contact Centre with your request"
I just handed your plan off, please give your airwork speech to the other ATC

"Say again flight planned route"
I'm being checked right now / I'm due for a voice sample review