See you at the bottom
 

Good to see that the roaring success of the J* Cadet program has flowed on to GA so quickly. Have never seen a job add so enticing as this one.....

Position is ONLY guaranteed for 2 days a week.
The candidate MUST have experience or natural ability in Sales and customer service.
Remuneration is Incentive driven.
Must be available immediately.
Must be prepared for training/ICUS.
Floatplane endorsement, not essential, however, training will be at the cost of the candidate.


Where does one find the "INCENTIVE DRIVEN" remuneration clause in the pilots award? I wonder what the CFMEU do with this?

To play devils advocate...the company did say it was only a casual job. However the clause of being prepared for training/ICUS should definately not translate into PAYING for said training/ICUS out of the pilot's already empty pockets. :=

But I'm sure that there will be the occasional bourke who will come along telling the manager that he/she'll be happy to work for free... :mad:

Fuel-Off :ok:

That is not an ad for a pilot, rather, it seems to be an ad for an unpaid Ops Clerk/General Factotum.

The funny thing is that they will get someone..

Sounds average I agree but at least they are honest about it. If you want to wind up at the bottom have a look at the add below Cairns Seaplanes.

Well at least it was upfront, except for the missing bit about washing the bosses car, walking the dogs and cleaning the staff toilets. Could be worse, coulda required the applicant to perform other acts under his desk

Why are you guys getting so upset?, this company is doing what all the others do including Pac Blue , jet connent and jet star. At the end of the day dont blame the companies, blame us Pilots, we are the ones prepared to degrade ourselves. Thats fine but please dont grizzle about conditions when you do get to the dream job when you have paid your way to get there.

Was going to say something, but in the end couldnt be bothered. Oh I will say the wine is good in SA eh.:ouch:

I see lots of crying in beer, but, what are you wa#$@rs going to do about it?.:rolleyes:

What can anyone do about it? Everyone outside the industry thinks we're overpaid button pushers. No one listens and no one cares. Some idiot will take the job and down we go.

This is what's called "welcome to the market driven economy the hard way".

It will always be like this at the bottom of the food chain... always has been.

"incentive driven renumeration" sounds like the deal I'm on the boss pays me above award and conditions - thats my incentive. In return I turn up fly and try not to break his aircraft.

Realistically it's a start for someone to get into floats. all the research I did years ago when looking into floats were no insurance till you get a few hundred water landings and you have to be a bit of a boaty as well as a good aviator. In this instance you would have to make sure it's not an ongoing rip off and get something in writing to say that once you have xx number of water landings or after 3 months there would be a retainer and or casual/full time dollars as per the award. At the end of the day if you can't pay your employee's properly there is something seriously wrong with your business plan.

Just curious - betting London to a brick that some miscreant will actually pay for this gig, how many Engineers work for free ?
How many ATCO's work for free ?
What is it about Pilots - please spare me the love of flying b/s, just explain why a certain group will eat their own young and then spend a lifetime justifying it.
Incoming :sad:

Yeah I don't get it either. Spend a hundred grand getting all the quals, fly for dodgy/shonky operators for years while gaining precious hours and getting paid peanuts, finally worm your way into a regional and get treated like doggy doo for a few years, get your command... now you are probably down half a million bucks over your mates who all became accountants... finally achieve the holy grail and start serving your serious airline time as a cruise F/0 or something while still being paid, well not peanuts, more like salted almonds.

About now you realise that quality of life and lifestyle are way more important than monitoring a computer for 13 hours... now all you want is an easy roster and less flying... eventually you would kill for a few weeks at home playing with the kids, who now don't recognise their father anyway... and now you couldn't care less if you never saw an aircraft ever again, if you could only stop feeling exhausted all the time and permanently jet-lagged...

May not be everybody's experience, however enough of my ex-colleagues found it to be so for them, which is why I never went long haul. Just not worth it IMHO... although the money can be good at the top of the tree...

And now you realise that flying for nothing, in order to get something that you end up not wanting anyway, isn't such a bargain!

Maybe time to get out of the industry Remoak ? ...

No... the key is to engineer yourself a career that suits your needs, which I have - flying in a place I want to fly, flying types I enjoy. All I'm saying is that far too many people follow the yellow brick road and find that at the end, it isn't what they thought it was.

I'd rather have a fulfilling, enjoyable career, living where I want to and see my kids grow up, than always be trying to fly the next bigger type etc. The downside is that you don't earn the top salaries, or have as good skiting opportunities... :}

I am very, very glad that I didn't do some of the PTF opportunities that were around when I was doing my licences. Turned out it wasn't necessary in the long run.

Wonder what Charles Kingsford Smith, Gordon P. Taylor, Saburo Sakai, Sir Francis Chichester, Billy Mitchell, Fred Ladd, Adolf Galland, Robert Munro, Jimmy Doolittle, Adrian Mark, Chuck Yeager . . .

. . . thousands of nameless heroes who on the smell of an oily rag have built their own homebuilt wonders and taken family, friends and neighbours for flights . . .

. . . and all the other pilots who never made a fortune but blazed trails through the seas and skies that can still be seen to this day would think of all this negativity? :cool:

Grow up guys!

Here's hoping the kid who gets a start with one of these crowds will end up in that ever decreasing group of men who think of themselves as aviators, men whose eyes shine with the glory and gratitude for the fleeting chance of being able to soar with angels, rather than the group of complaining and whiny half-men who equate the magic of flying as a job and think of themselves as pilots.

Pilots = half men who talk about pay, conditions, seniority, contracts, and whose gloom brings down others. :yuk:

Aviators = men who talk about
flight,
flying,
flyers,
and whose passion lights the fires in the hearts of others. :ok:

Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly.
— G. K. Chesteron, 'Orthodoxy,' 1908.

I'm sorry but why can't we complain about ads like this?

The reason that so many of us feel so passionately about this ad is because we too were asked to run someone else's business for them/do 65 other non-flying related jobs with a bit of flying on the side while being paid fairly average wages in the hope of getting the hours to make it to a job that pays well enough to afford a beer at the end of the day.

As for doing something about it? Well..... Do you want a job or not?

Notwithstanding - I did have a good laugh at this ad :}:yuk:

I'm sorry I thought this was a Professional Pilots forum? You know, those who fly for a JOB? Those who fly for pay, for food, for a CAREER?

Dreams and stars in your eyes wont put your kids through school.

Thank you so much "weloveseaplanes" for cheapening my career choice. Thank you so much for opening my eyes and showing me that I don't deserve a brass razoo. Because I'm so lucky that I get to FLY for a living... well not a living but I get to do it and not pay someone for the pleasure!

Alternatively I could do another job where I'm paid for my qualifications and experience; then pay for flying and come out on top because that's what you're saying isn't it? Why should someone expect to be paid for what others see as lofty amazingly unique experience. Something that's so special and entertaining that one should be happy just with the fortune of experiencing it.

Hey while we're jumping on the tall poppy bandwagon, lets hack Tiger Woods down to size, I enjoy golf why should he get paid? Thats not fair. What about Brad Pitt? I would LOVE to be in a movie, I did a bit of drama when I was kid, acting is fun; he should just be happy with being famous! He certainly doesn't deserve a dime!

While we're being idiotic about peoples lives and careers, here's a nice single piece white suit with the v cut down the middle; there's your drab white econo box car, here's your assigned job and you can expect your universally standard salary in the mail. If you need any help call the Kremlin and ask them when communism took over the world.

Mr. ...victim(?)

. . . "I thought this was a Professional Pilots forum?"
Yes it is ~ all sorts of flyers welcome.

. . . "Dreams and stars in your eyes wont put your kids through school."
Family love and governmental assistance will. Worked for mine.

. . . "cheapening my career choice."
No need to thank me,I'm not cheapening it at all, am on the contray trying to move away from this obession people have on PPRUNE to complain about pay all the time. You're cheapening it if the value you derive from flying is financial.

. . . "I don't deserve a brass razoo."
Never said that.

. . . "I'm so lucky that I get to FLY"
Yup. Surely you can feel it?

. . . "that's what you're saying isn't it?"
Nope. Am saying 'wonder what (insert list of famous aviators)would think of all this (=your) negativity.'

. . . "Why should someone expect to be paid for what others see as lofty amazingly unique experience."
I hope each time you arise and alight you too see it as a lofty amazingly unique experience ~ it'll help you, and those you meet, feel better.

. . . "why should he (Tiger) get paid?"
Don't particularly think he should especially as he wastes it on hookers.

. . . "What about Brad Pitt?"
Think he's great for adopting so many children from third world countries and donating so much money to children's charities.

. . . "I would LOVE to be in a movie"
Now you're talking - look at that you even used the word love and in capital letters no less! First time the sunshine of positiveness shone through that dark cloud. That's the spirit. It sounds like you had perhaps subconsciously wished you had followed the actors path instead of being one of those, "You know, those who fly for a JOB?"

In your second paragrapher you used the phrase "stars in your eyes" and later on you also said "acting is fun". Certainly sounds like one pilot's subconscious is trying to lead them back to their true calling :-)

Have you considered discussing with your family your childhood dream of becoming an actor, (drama did you say?), and perhaps giving it a go, after all God give us only two things - life and the will to follow our dream.

Weloveseaplanes, each of those names you mentioned would probably tell the author of this ad (you ?) to stick the job up their ar_se.

The more entrepreneurial names from aviation history would offer the employer a deal of their own, and wave goodbye if it got knocked back.

X

Maybe we should all apply for this position, and whoever gets it then phone up on the first day and say that they couldn't turn up due to:

• the cost of petrol to drive to work
• couldn't afford to buy lunch
• was offered a better gig at McDonalds

After the first three failed attempts they should get the message.

havick -

"you wouldn't be able to mooch off govt handouts that you freely admit to pocketing.. maybe a reality check is in order."

Your certainly right about the need for a reality check. Never mentioned 'mooching off.' Never mentioned 'pocketing.'

It was mum who received the governmental assistance for my education after the death of my father who was an aviator in the true meaning of the word. It helped our family a lot. Mum was flat out with volunteer work herself helping others less fortunate. I've since been able to make it by myself and when the flying jobs couldn't pay enough would simply get other jobs. Never forgotten how important it is to volunteer either.

A bit of hard work never hurt anyone as much as listening to groups of people complain about how unfair and underpaid being a flyer is.

Great to hear that you're on 6 figures. The world sure can do with your generosity. Should you again be in the position to negotiate for higher pay, perhaps you and your employer could set up a joint charity fund to help others struggling in your community?

Far out, count me in.:ok:

Now I shouldn't bother but...

People who bring children into this world under those circumstances should be committed. Why would you put children through that?
How can I enjoy the former if I cant survive without the latter?

Read above.
No. Physics and an eduction. (or should we praise the lord for the mystical marvel of this gravity defying act?)

I'm sure they'd be appalled of other young aviators being exploited after they worked so hard to develop the industry into what it was.

At $99 a seat to Sydney its hardly unique :ok:

Taking them away from those who cant afford to look after them? Perhaps those who choose to take hand outs so they can pursue a hobby over meeting their life commitments?

I followed my dream attained all my goals and now thinking about a family realise that in order to provide for them I need to get paid something more tangible than fluffy feelings.

Or should I apologise for expecting to be paid for the service I provide? :hmm:

Hmmmm, guess it depends on how much you expect

Ill pretend its not a wind-up.

weloveseaplanes, your attitude is disgusting. Flying is a job. Its a fun job, but at the end of the day I want a return on my training investment. That was real money and I didn't spend it for nothing. I certainly didn't spend it for an employer to tell me that I owed him for the privilege of working for nothing. That my return is the love of flying or some such bull****.

For an employer to think that somehow his employees 'owe' him for the 'privilege' of working is shameful.

If your business is unable to operate whilst paying your employees a proper wage, then its not a viable business and it shouldn't exist. 'Serving your time' is just bull**** made up by dodgy owners to try to create a culture of acceptance amongst pilots of below award conditions.

Some of them have been playing this card so long they have actually started to believe it. You sound like one of them.

:rolleyes:

"Actually, I think a new sports car or another investment property is on the cards.."

Yeah I think you're probably right there. A new sports car or another investment property sounds much more likely. Enjoy :-)

You sound like a MAF Pilot WLSP :cool:

weloveseaplanes,

This one's for you, it reminds me of you:

http://www.etoolsnow.com/images/cust...T%20WRENCH.jpg

A GI-NORMOUS TOOL!

Furthermore...nah, it's not worth it. Someone with as warped a mind as yours will never see sense, have fun slipping the surly bonds and living on food stamps.

j3

Dear Super Soldier das Uber Soldat -

"weloveseaplanes, your attitude is disgusting"

Well don't hold back there my man. Give it to me straight.

"Flying is a job."
Nope flying is what birds, angels and aviators do. Piloting is a job.

". . . an employer to tell me that I owed him for the privilege of working for nothing."

Your twisting my question and running off into your own forest of fears about evil employers. You obviously missed the question the first time round. Your welcome to look back up at post 18 for yourself. Read the question dude. (The question is the sentence that ends in one of these '?' )

Now The Wawa Zone, although mistakingly hinting that I might have placed the ad was able to answer the question with an answer I didn't agree with "each of those names you mentioned would probably tell the author of this ad (you ?) to stick the job up their ar_se."

Perhaps he's a good role model for you?

I'm sure you can afford a chill pill and now's as good a time to take one as any.

Relax and enjoy the beauty of flight. Man has dreamed of it for millennia and you and I can achieve it.

Is it so hard to believe that some of us pilots so love flying?

Green Goblin -

"You sound like a MAF Pilot WLSP"

That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me on this post - thanks!

If there was a MAF pilot for every airline pilot the world would be a much nicer place. :)

If flyers dreamed of how they could use aviation to help the less fortunate rather than how they can use it to help themselves . . .

Keep trolling mate.

:ugh:

You crack me up! I've flown to Gove a couple of times, and the only time in my career has someone pushed in not once but twice, was a MAF pilot! :ugh:

Funny, it was a MAFia C206 that refused to extend his downwind to facilitate the arrival of a Med 1 Kingair the other day. Interesting words followed on the CTAF.

The reason I began this post was to highlight just how acceptable it is for employers to now ADVERTISE without remorse just how far they expect you to drop your trousers.

The hope was to get some unity happening amongst us so that maybe, one day, we will ALL stand up and say no to this bs. Together United we won't be defeated but can't see everyone on the same page and this is why this **** continues.

It is the likes of "weloveflyingseaplanesondrugs" that will always give employers the opportunity to cry poor and offer peasant wages because of some accepted notion that all we want to do is live the dream and fly their aircraft for nothing. It is the dream that got us here seaplaneman, hard to continue the dream on fresh air. Please pm me with your drug supplier so I can get onto the same page as you.

As for the family seaplane man, all is good. The centrelink check just arrived at home so the Mrs can get some food for the kids. I am doing ok aswell, especially knowing you are there to give me a hug, smack me on the arse and remind me how lucky I am to be in sky living the dream.

Weloveseaplanes

Pilots aren't allowed to do drugs. Obviously there are different rules for aviators.

Buddha, God, Allah, Perseus or whoever must all be very displeased.

Off to poke my head in the clouds, much like yours.

Obviously you have not had to deal with them......

MAF join cross wind as Metro joins 5 mile final with a call asking them to extend downwind to facilitate, Metro calls three mile final, MAF calls turning final and have right of way, Metro goes round.........:ugh:

All Australian Airlines Australia/NZ/Singapore/Vietnam/South Pacific/Antartica/Afghanistan bases
Casual Line Pilot

The candidate MUST have experience or natural ability in Sales, aircraft cleaning(internal and external), baggage handling, engineering, IT, Accounting and customer service
Remuneration is Incentive driven - flight 100% full, every single flight for the week in your region u get paid a generous retainer of the % of beers sold onboard sold before 8am on Monday mornings.
Must be available immediately.
Must be prepared for training/ICUS - discounted endorsements available at $100,000, multiple endorsements required, 2% discount available on 2nd Endorsement.
Training will be at the cost of the candidate.
Must be willing to relocate to all the above bases, up to twice a year at your own expense.
Must have a genuine love of aviating, being a pilot and picking up ladies in the bar in your uniform(available at own expense)
1 year contract terms - renewal available for $5000 annually
Holidays available subject to business needs - generous no work no pay scheme.
Payroll deductions available for, ASIC cards, carparking, taxis, overnight hotels,uniforms, meals, water, toilet usage.

Before too long the love of 'aviating' will bring us to this !! weloveseaplanes will be there with bells on ! You 'currently' get paid to 'aviate' - what a world !

Piety is for popes and paedophiles
 

WLSP,

I really dont want to go at you arguing quote for quote because you appear to have mistaken yourself for the Dalai Lama. You also seem to have stirred up some strong emotions from a number of otherwise well balanced, reasonable posters.Perhaps it is because you are less the Dalai Lama but more a saccharine spouting, sanctimonious fool living in a dream world where people work for free and are grateful for the priviledge and you may call them optimists.