Jetstar Cadetship (again)........
 

The previous threads have been closed down because people are clearly unable to hold themselves back from turning it into a slinging/whinging/whining/"back in my day we never would have done that" thread.

However, regardless of the opinions of many of you, there are alot of people who have applied for this cadetship and are looking for some information on it.

If your really that upset about this cadetship and what it may be doing to australian aviation then please take out your frustrations somewhere else......go kick your dog..........get drunk with likeminded whingers........whatever floats your boat...........just do us all a favour and dont do it on this thread.

Moving on.......has anybody completed the 'panel interview'????? Is it with somepeople from Jetstar, or is it with some random Grade One from OAA??

Any news from people who have done the interview for the ACP???

I dunno... if I went to a victim's support forum and started a thread about "how to get out of jail early for good behaviour" and then prattled about paying off warden's and quoting the bible to parol officers I'd expect a rather harsh reaction.

I know there are people applying who have buckets of hours in GA... but there are also kids with a big cheque book. If I was slogging my guts (and back) out in an airvan around WA waiting for that big-league break, I'd be pretty angry about the cadetship. Ts & Cs are a bit of a sore point for many people, and if you're seen to be undermining them you should think twice about where you ask the questions.

Not judging, just stating that I think the reactions are unavoidable and this thread will be closed too.

New Cadetship
 

I would like to offer a new cadetship, much better than the Jetstar one.
If you pass my interview I guarantee a job flying any aircraft you wish. Interview price is $500 you can have as many goes as you like. I take cash. Only....
But there is a job at the end of it, somewhere? Just come for the interview....

Actually, because you really really love flying and have always wanted to be a pilot you get the interview for $450!

Do not pay for a job its just WRONG :ugh:why can,t people get this:eek:

I didn't know that HE was involved. Am I thinking of the right person? Might have to amend my opinions...

Testing
 

A mate of mine just sat the initial testing for the J* cadetship and it sounded like a horribly organised last minute deal (which doesn't really surprise me).

Anyway, he withdrew his app. not long after leaving the testing centre. Maybe a heads up to anyone thinking of giving it a crack, but hey, I aint telling people what they should and shouldn't do...

mins :cool:

Some free advice to anyone considering the Jetstar cadetship.

Before you commit to this modern day slavery have a good look around and ask questions of pilots already in the industry about this jetstar programme. Don't just accept what OAA and Jetstar tell you.

Take a read of this to see what CTC and OAA have done in conjunction with European LCC's like Jetstar. http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...n-academy.html

Don't say "it won't happen here" it has already started with this jetstar cadetship.

You might save yourself a lot of heartache.

Interview?
 

Hey guys, heard from J* today and I have my interview early July. Can anyone who's been through the process PM me of just reply so I have some idea what i'm up against. Cheers JJ

Just to make some things clear:

This Jetstar cadetship does not provide the command hours required to obtain and full ATPL.

Until a junior F/O or cadet achieves the hours to hold a full ATPL they cannot receive a promotion to the position of First Officer ($37,000 base pay difference) let alone hold a command.

Jetstar is under no obligation to provide the command time to a junior F/O, nor can it be logged without the approval of the company for a training captain to supervise it.

Because there is a $37,000 pay rise involved there will be a disincentive for Jetstar to provide command time required for promotion until the supply of experienced candidates dries up.

Seniority is only a major consideration in regards to promotion to either F/O or command within Jetstar.

If you still wish to pursue this opportunity then good luck to you and I hope it goes well for you.

I guess seeing such things happen in Aviation such as Multi PIlots Lic & Cadet-ships etc is like waving a red flag to us oldies who did it the hard way but as I have said before Aviation is a very different beast these days & it's been proven that you can take someone off the street screen them & teach them how to fly a 'Bus'. Whether it's the right thing to do or not is something that we cannot control, as someone famous once said..............'the way of the future'!
Good luck to all those newbies who choose the path that takes them to the top as they know no different:ok:


Wmk2

You do not PAY FOR A JOB its just WRONG:ugh:

jethro
 

And it undermines the existing workforce!!

Good luck finding a friend on the flight deck or some one to have a beer with on a slip...................:ugh:

but hey, it's not all about that...........we fly airplanes just cos we love it:yuk:

why do that?
 

If jetstar were going to just trawl through files of all the kids who graduated from OAA when they need a few cadets, why limit themselves to one school? Wouldn't they just throw the doors open to anyone with a fresh CPL? There are enough guys and girls that would pass J*'s apptitude tests floating around right now to supply the scheme for a couple of years. The only reason its with OAA is so they can advertise that you can pay for it all with fee help through swinburne Uni. The sums don't ad up if you have to shell out for a CPL yourself.

I'm desperate to crack a entry level flying job but the ACP is just too much of a financial minefield. Less pay and a big bill for my trouble.

I just do not get the thinking of people will pay $ to multi mill $ companys for a job :ugh:

Replies
 

Has anyone been contacted for the Advanced cadet programme?
It seems a few have applied for the ab initio scheme but no one seems to want to admit to applying for the ACP. Not wishing to share it with your fellow aviators? Feeling guilty?

Look, what I really would like to know is how many people with the minimum have applied and been contacted. If J* only got 50 applicants with the required ticks in the box I would say that the ACP will be history. If 200 suitable people applied for it then it is here to stay.

Re: White and Fluffy
 

I have heard the exact same information from a senior J* staff.

Good luck to all applying be sure and live with what you get out of it in the end...for some will be great...the others we will read all about it here on pprune.

safe flying everybody

Interesting news from the inside is that they are using the reverse recruitment method theory. This theory states that standard aptitude testing has serious inherent flaws. As the applicant is obviously aware they are being tested they are able to distort their results in a manner they feel is conducive to the companies requirements. For example, by knowing that airlines look for team players who are also willing to query or challenge the actions of their team when required, I can at the very least “drift” my answers to meet these expectations.

While the creators of these test are aware that this is human nature, and so design safe guards into them, there are acknowledged limits. In the example of this scheme, the plan is most likely dangle the “carrot” of a job in a shiny jet to potential applicants but then provide a series of obstacles. These begin with the published low pay, the poor conditions, and shaky job security. Beyond this I can only assume that there will be interviews where inappropriate questions are asked, strange conditions attached, and dubious requirements floated. If at this stage the applicant withdraws (as some have done it seems) they are offered a position with the company. The shocked applicant is then briefed on how Company X requires crew with a high level of situational analysis, hazard identification, and a general level of self preservation, and that by rejecting the offer they have clearly demonstrated these qualities. Applicants who wish to continue are given a standard “thanks but no thanks” letter.

i don't believe in these cadetships, it makes kids dream and gives work to flying schools but will never make a good pilot out of anyone.

" ladies and gentlemen, this is you FO speaking, i'm 21 years old and i have 250h, the captain is in the toilet spewing his guts, we are arriving in Heathrow in an hour. There will be severe turbulence, snow storms and it is still night time "

Can anyone provide a link to Jet* EBA covering these cadetships. Curious on payrates and conditions etc etc.

Thanks

Cadetship?
 

But is the 6 years bonded to jetstar counted as part of "The Cadetship"? Why is there such a knock on this program? I really don't understand, it's in JQ's interests after paying for your training accomodation etc. to give you work. Unless it's in a signed contract they cannot force you to pay them back, I guess reading the fine print is important in these delicate situations.:8

How many applicants have they been assessing on each assessment day?

Moss
There's been plenty of posts on this very issue. If you can't decipher or come to some sort of intelligent conclusion on what the processes would be based on some facts they present (read their website/ pprune posts) and then make moronic statements like the above then truly this cadetship is for you.:ugh:

Ps. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

"But is the 6 years bonded to jetstar counted as part of "The Cadetship"? Why is there such a knock on this program? I really don't understand, it's in JQ's interests after paying for your training accomodation etc. to give you work. Unless it's in a signed contract they cannot force you to pay them back, I guess reading the fine print is important in these delicate situations"

Because, after you have finished paying for your on-the-job training (and buying your job) it is cheaper for them to "employ" another wannabe who is willing to pay for the same deal as you did. They don't renew your contract but engage a new wannabe cadet (just like you were). "Cadets" (who pay) are cheaper than employees who get paid.

Simple mathematics

Where exactly does it say you are contracted for 6 years as opposed to being a normally employed FO?

But you are checked to line, you arent paying anything up front, surely an a320 endo and a job getting hours on the actual aircraft for six years is plenty to get you going! Even if they don't renew that contract after 6 years then youve still got a ****load of hours on a jet so you can do what you like with it.:ugh: If you don't like jet flying, im sure any other lower level job that's out there would take you on with that kind of experience. I'm not doing the cadetship so i'm not biased towards it but either way my point remains valid. And if you love it then after six years even 50% co pilot time i'm sure would be enough to get you doing something with another airline.

Jetstar
 

Probably worth thinking about;
- I don't believe it says there is any guarantee Jetstar have to offer you a job at all,
- I don't even know if Jetstar management would know where the future growth of the airline will be,
- Its well likely the employment a cadet would be offered would be to fill vacancies on the offshore expansions (on that countries local conditions). ie where the Aussue EBA pilots won't leave or take leave to go to,
- I haven't heard if a cadet would appear on a seniority list (and from what I've heard from a friend in Jetstar, with the total lack of movement forecast in the Aus RBA ranks you would likely be overseas for a long time!

Given all the above, everyone has a choice to make for themselves. I guess it's nobodys place to tell someone else what to do. I do think that many considering the cadetship would be best to get some insight into the obvious direction Jetstar is heading with offshoring of employment and how that will affect their possible future.

Having said that also. If someone thinks that the shoe fits them then the best of luck. I hope it is everything you are looking for.

Hi guys,

Any one completed the ACP testing at OAA. Im finding it hard to prep for....
Any help or suggestions would be great :ok:
pls pm me


Good luck

What other Airlines??
 

Moss197,

What other airlines?? Overseas?? The point people are trying to make is that it will end up eroding the conditions of ALL pilots in Australian airlines. Great to have the experience but to have also ruined the current conditions for everyone else.....

This has happened continuously since the early 2000's, how low will the conditions go? I enjoy my job but I am worried that I won't have one in the future because people are accepting worse conditions from the pimps!!

Time will tell.... Please don't bitch on here in 5-10 years time when you are over the "I just love flying bit" and the conditions for ALL of us are utter crap.

Rant over, enjoy paying for someone to use you!!! :ugh:

Billy, can I suggest some core stability strengthening and stretching. Your going to need to be extra flexible with all the bending over you'll be doing. 6 years is a lot of pineapples.
:ok:

Tarmac12,

You seem to be under the impression that Fee-Help pays your fees. It is only a loan. To access an ~$86K Fee-help loan you will also need to pay for an academic postgrad uni course at ~$15k as well.

If the scheme works via VET-Fee Help, then no academic course fees are payable, but there is an upfront $20K loan fee.

One way or another, access to Fee-Help will cost you an extra $15-$20K.

Paying up front is much cheaper overall if you have access to the cash.

Jetstar physc testing
 

Hi Crew

I'm here to divulge some insight into Jetstars stage 2 testing and interview. I thought Id help out those interested with some valuable info because I have recently sat the exams.

It consists of a computer based 3hr examination that covers

1. Yech questions, most of these are found in ATPL aerodynamics and systems about jet operations.

2. A maths test that covers long division, algerbra (4x+6=9y find X) kinda stuff aswell as pythag therom etc.

3. personality testing. You know the type

4. Motor skills testing with our old favourite the joystick and pedels. Basically the idea with this one is keep the aircraft on the glide slope and the ball in the middle which appears below the simulated ILS.

the other motor skills test involves entering given alts, heading and radio frequencies while killing a red light that systematically appers in the top left and right corners.

I wasn't successful and so find myself sitting in a bar am MLB airport drowning sorrows. My apologies for any spelling and/or punctuation errors.

On the positive side I met a great bunch of blokes (9) and the sun will still come up in the morning. I'm off to chase my other love, float planes!!

any Q's feel free to PM me.

clinty83,

Presumably a cadet would have only to pay for a copilot endorsement as that is the job he has applied for. The copilot endorsement would be heaps cheaper than a command endorsement as the requirements are different.

Hi All,

The above description of the OAA screen for Jetstar is accurate, I just wanted to clarify for all those that have not done a huge amount of math since high school. The ask 2x+6=9y, what is the value of y if x=3. they don't give 2 variables and make you come up with an answer. That would require a bit more maths knowledge.

Flagg

I'm not here to have a go at people going to the cadetship, if they want to avoid the GA scheme of experience then that is their choice.

My flatmate recently spent over $2,000 in air fares, buying a suit, hiring a car, accommodation... only to be told by jetstar that he hadn't passed the aptitude tests after paying the additional $300.

I am sorry but i must express my dissapointment in what seems to be a monkey race. They offer no assistance to those travelling from other parts of australia, and as someone mentioned before having to pay to sit an interview and psychometric testing to WORK FOR THEM is just an outright joke.

IMO if the company was serious about doing things professionally then surely they could organise travel for those where spare seating was available, offer some kind of accommodation assistance rather than just expecting people for have the savings to pay for this kind of an event.

Multi Engined,

This is the whole point here, it was purely your mates choice to spend $2,000 to go to the cadetship interview. If you would believe others on this forum then everyone who turns up with the money and willing to sign gets the job. Judging by the amount of people on here who are not getting through the selection, this if obviously not the point. Don't forget, no one is forcing people to go to these interviews, rest assured if Jetstar got ZERO applicants due to the cost associated with the selection then the policy would change. From the numbers that are apparently applying this is obviously not the case. If you resent paying for the selection just don't do it. Once again this is not new, to get into a 'certain' legacy carrier I had to take unpaid leave, pay for flights and two nights accomodation which cost me about £600 at the time, they offered ZERO assistance as it was my choice to apply.

Not so, in some cases this will become a hinderance not a help. It may come as a surprise but some employers of a 'lower level job' may not actually want your co-pilot jet time... There's not whole lot of anything you can do with a bunch of co-pilot time. Anyway, why would you go back to a 'lower level job?' So you can work your way back up the ladder so that maybe you can get back in to an airline to fly the all important shiny jet for dirt money all over again...?! :ugh:

The only reason why Jetstar are doing this is so that they can MAYBE employ you on THEIR terms and pay you LESS for LONGER. A long way from what I would call a 'win, win.'

If you think it is a good idea, it might be - for Jetstar, but not for you!

Believe it or not but there are people here with lifetimes of experience in the industry who can see what is really going on and are trying to offer a genuine warning...

"IMO if the company was serious about doing things professionally then surely they could organise travel for those where spare seating was available, offer some kind of accommodation assistance rather than just expecting people for have the savings to pay for this kind of an event."

Of course the company could organise such things. Why would they bother though? If people think buying a job is such a good idea then those people would also think paying for the interviews is ok too.

Perhaps it is all part of the interview process? They are just testing you to see just how much you are willing to fork out and what you are prepared to pay for.

Fools and their money........?

I understand it is people's choice whether they want to spend the money. In general a lot of those applying don't have a lot of experience and imo don't really have an understanding on how much of a joke this is.

From what people have told me from their exp in the industry things use to be much more about teaching people how to fly rather than the now making money out of people learning how to fly.

Your Kidding right? This is Jetstar they will make money out of everything including applicants! Either way the applicants are going to be spending so much dosh that they don't have to care! In fact they will be making money out of this scheme thats what is so stuffed about it!