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CASA Exams Tagging Rules Changed
Hi folks,
Just got an email from CASA with revised tagging rules. From 3rd May 2010 CAR CASR NO TAGS PERMITTED. CAO NO TAGS PERMITTED AIP MAX 10 TAGS ERSA MAX 5 TAGS DAPS NO TAGS PERMITTED CAAP NO TAGS PERMITTED HANDBOOK AND OPS MANUAL of EXAM AIRCRAFT MODEL NO TAGS PERMITTED ALL CHARTS NO TAGS PERMITTED ANYTHING ELSE NOT LISTED NO TASGS PERMITTED Mods, could we sticky this for a little while. |
CASA Exam Policy Tags, Highlighting & Underlining in Exam-Permitted Publications Effective 3 May 2010 Background In earlier years CAA/CASA did not permit underlining, highlighting and tagging of reference documents allowed in exams for the reason that reference publications such as the Civil Aviation Regulations (CAR) (1988), Civil Aviation Orders (CAO) and the Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP) (the book itself) have excellent coverage of the sections and procedures in both the Contents and Index pages. However, recognizing the usefulness of ‘selective’ underlining, highlighting and tagging of some of the more-frequently used or important sections in these publications, CASA decided a few years ago to allow these practices, with conditions that there shall be no training/explanatory notes, study aide-memoires, formulae, or cross-referencing between pages of a document or across to other documents, either in the documents or on the tags. Problems Not understanding purpose of tags Unfortunately some exam candidates might not have realized the existence and usefulness of the Contents and Index pages, or have abandoned or ignored their use. They seemed to depend solely on tags, a practice acknowledged by a few schools teaching these candidates. It would appear that these candidates have virtually replaced the functions of the Content and Index pages with a staggering multitude of tags. Such an approach is actually counter-productive to the aim and value of tagging. As the purpose of tags is to swiftly and precisely locate a selected number of the more-frequently referenced sections in publications, these candidates have, through the over abundance of tags per publication, unwittingly neutralised any benefits they may derive from them. The same observation applies to the practice of highlighting and underlining of texts in permitted publications. Some candidates have highlighted or underlined entire pages. What then would be the benefit in such indiscriminate actions other than for the candidates to view coloured and completely underlined pages during exams? Security issue When a candidate brings into an exam session several reference publications, as would be the case in air law or IREX exams, with each book having as many as 30 tags or more, and the session comprises 12 to 15 candidates, the supervisor is confronted with a security situation which may adversely affect his/her primary supervisory role. CASA cannot accept any situation which impacts adversely on the integrity of CASA exam sittings. Updated Policy w.e.f 03 May 2010 Given the current unsatisfactory situation, CASA has updated its policy on the use of tags, to be made effective on Monday 03 May 2010. The new policy will specify which exam-permitted documents may have tags and their respective maximum number. This will actually make the role of tags more effective and thus benefit exam candidates. The policy on underlining and highlighting of text in exam-permitted documents remain unchanged. Role of schools & instructors Schools and instructors are also encouraged to guide their students back to more effective use of the Contents & Index pages of the exam-permitted documents when the students need to refer to specific air laws and flight procedures to answer exam questions. Instructors should also advise their students on the correct way to highlight and underline texts in the exam-permitted publications. The aim is to bring out for their immediate attention, during a very involved exam session, useful keywords or phrases, therefore the operative word in highlighting and underlining should be judicious selections of the text. ‘Contents’ and 'Index' pages CASA updated policy has taken into consideration the respective publication’s layout, availability of official printed section dividers, and the quality of the 'Contents’ and 'Index' pages. Tags permitted or not permitted The following lists the maximum number of tags per respective publication where such publications are permitted in exam session:
Candidates who tag their exam-permitted publications in excess of the above limits will not be allowed to undertake the exam until they remove the extra tags. Damn terrorist explosive tags! :hmm: So does this mean that you'll be given an extra 15 minutes in Flight Planning to keep referring to the contents page? I think not. I realised the usefulness of the contents and index pages years ago...and decided that tags were far less ambiguous. :yuk: |
You beat me to it Led Zep, the contents and Indexes would nbe more bebficial if used as toilet paper.
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Oh where do I begin...
1. (i) CAR (1988) ... – no tag permitted 2. CAO – no tag permitted The new policy will specify which exam-permitted documents may have tags and their respective maximum number. This will actually make the role of tags more effective and thus benefit exam candidates. the supervisor is confronted with a security situation which may adversely affect his/her primary supervisory role As the purpose of tags is to swiftly and precisely locate a selected number of the more-frequently referenced sections in publications |
When I did ATPL airlaw I finished the exam with only minutes to spare and used the tagging system that was provided by AFT that is CASA approved.
I wonder what will happen to such systems? I would imagine now the exam will now become very time critical. Glad I don't have to hand the buggers anymore money ever again:ok: |
Guess it would be best to remove the tags from my FCOM, would hate to be accused of cheating come check time. :ugh:
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Holy Sh*t, I had more tags than pages and still had 'time' issues when doing both exams. It would be acceptable if the docs had a decent index. What a stupid change:confused::ugh::suspect:
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had me a look on the casa website and the ASL site. no mention on the homepages of either about this major change. had to do a specific search on casa to find it.
When was the regulator going to notify the flying public of this change? I feel sorry for those who don't know, who show up for an exam after the 3rd only to be told to remove their tabs |
If your on CASA's mailing list it was sent out today.
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WWWW
Mate, that post was hilarious! :}
Let us know how it goes doing your ATPL Law without tags. :ouch: Do you want to be a professional pilot? Well, professionals know their sh1t. The ATPL law (and probably CPL law) exams want you to know some pretty obscure stuff. Let me know how often you can remember the flight & duty time limitations for 3 crew, or rules for inbound international flights. DIVOSH! |
Being the devils advocate to your devils advocate, if Professional Pilots know their stuff, here's a challenge for you. Go back to the top, remove all but the allowed tags from your documents and re-sit a cyber exam and tell us how you do, you 'Professional Pirate' you...
j3 |
AussieNick,
When was the regulator going to notify the flying public of this change? |
Do you want to be a professional pilot? Well, professionals know their sh1t. I just want to know how much easier we have to make these tests what with Bob Taits books and Cyber Exams Probably two of the dumbest statements I've come across on PPRuNe (and there have been some pearlers). FRQ CB |
excerpt from letter sent to CASA.
Dear Sir,
Thankyou for taking my telephone call today. I would appreciate the opportunity to provide what is meant to be constructive criticism. Firstly, can I suggest that CASA provide industry with the opportunity to be involved on an exam panel. You could perhaps invite a small number of CFIs or ground instructors to participate from each state and provide industry feedback on the strengths and weaknesses of each of the exams. I feel this is an area that you would have a large interest from industry. The extra resources made available would allow the exams to be changed and updated on a more regular basis than is presently available to you. You would also be able to incorporate relevant subjects incorporated into exams. For example Class D questions should maybe be increased in light of upcoming changes at GAAPs. I believe that the general consensus within the industry is that the current indexes are inadequate and could do with some industry consultation to promptly update them. This could be achieved in one meeting I believe. The short notice for the changes has caused some difficulty. We taught an Air Law class last week. The students are well prepared, but do have tagged documents. With the sometimes long lead times between completing a course and being able to book an exam with ASL I have a number of students who will now need to prepare for the new requirements. Perhaps consideration should be given to an extension of the time permitted for the exam. My personal opinion is that reasonable tagging enhances flight safety as if the documents are less formidable and easier to use then students are more likely to refer to them, rather than acting on their beliefs of the correct interpretation. I have been flying for over 25 years and my job requires me to regularly refer back to documents. In order to promptly but accurately provide answers I feel that reasonable tagging is an asset. Perhaps CASA could consider an approved set of tags designed with industry consultation that could be made available to students. We need to bear in mind that we are dealing with relatively inexperienced pilots with usually less than 100 hours experience trying to wade through a mass of documents. As the documents are available on line, perhaps students could prepare their own documents. For example a PPL candidate needs access to only a small part of the CAOs and CARs. If they could print only the relevant pages from the website and take those into the exam that would probably negate the need for any tagging at all. Thanks for your consideration, Cheers |
I just booked for Air Law on 24/4/10, the last pre 3/5/10 sitting at YPPF. I reckon I'll put tags in my charts just because I can. No legitimate reason really. Maybe I'll tag ERC1 with and ERC1 tag etc.
I cannot imagine sitting Flight Planning without my tags. The index is shocking, the text is of questionable legibility, most of the pages looks so damn similar to about 30 others (cruise scheds) and there's very little logic in the way it is laid out. If it was a cockpit it would be banned by and self-respecting Authority for such woeful ergonomics, prone to human error. Here's an idea, if you chop off the top cm of the book carefully leaving little chads (thank you US election of 2000 for my knowledge of that word) where the tags were would you be in contravention of the "Updated Policy"? What if you get a drill and carefully make those little indentations as seen in fancy dictionaries and encyclopedia? What a ridiculous rule. God help you who sit Flight Planning post 3-may-2010. FRQ CB I shall dub the first method above (cutting most of the top cm off) the FRQ CB Stone Carving method based on my HS art teached who said that sculpting a human head was easy, you just chisel off everything that doesn't look like a human head. Just cut off every bit of paper that doesn't look like a tag.:ok: |
What a complete and utterly pointless policy from CASA.
It would appear that these candidates have virtually replaced the functions of the Content and Index pages with a staggering multitude of tags. Such an approach is actually counter-productive to the aim and value of tagging. As the purpose of tags is to swiftly and precisely locate a selected number of the more-frequently referenced sections in publications, these candidates have, through the over abundance of tags per publication, unwittingly neutralised any benefits they may derive from them. The same observation applies to the practice of highlighting and underlining of texts in permitted publications. Some candidates have highlighted or underlined entire pages. What then would be the benefit in such indiscriminate actions other than for the candidates to view coloured and completely underlined pages during exams? If I may be so bold, I suspect that the real reason for all of this, alluded to in the "security issue", is that many airline cadets are writing large amounts of information on tags in languages that are not English, and therefore the exam supervisor has no way of knowing whether or not the student is cheating. |
I suspect that the real reason for all of this, alluded to in the "security issue", is that many airline cadets are writing large amounts of information on tags in languages that are not English |
What about bringing the VFG into the PPL exam, can you still do that but not write on the tags?
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Tags weren't invented when I did Air Legislation... as it was called then.
And half the SCPL Air Leg Exam was closed book! Tag That! :} |
How about a better solution, CASA?
Youve already directed that tags are not to contain formulas and notes - How about a statement that tags must be in English? That way the supervisor can tell whether or not it's a normal tag, or one containing notes. |
Lasiorhinus, I think you hit the nail on the head, that's all that would of been required.
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Perfectly fine index on the AIP - 10 tags
Hopeless index on CAR/CAO - 0 tags Seriously? :mad::mad: :ugh: |
Hopeless index on CAR/CAO |
What is the fuss? I didnt use tags, just learn the books, I got 90+ on every subject and time was not an issue. I put a good 4 months of private study into it however. I had around 2000 hours when I did the ATPL theory, as a low hour I guess it is different but just delay it until your up to speed, pretty simple really. I found Air Law a piece of pi$$, as well as flight planning. Systems was my bug bear.
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Reality check... what are we checking here...
isnt the exam to ensure the candidates have sound understanding and knowledge of the rules and regulations... If it is to ensure we know it and can find it in a timely manner then wtf - im sorry but when asked a question or referencing something at work i dont give myself 3 minuts per question to find it and then a big red alarm goes off and im fired... If this is the case perhaps i should remove all of the tags from the company set of orders etc. or remove the search function from the casa website.. as it could be considered cheating during the course of work. and heaven forbid i have a problem and cant find my emergency procedures for comms failures in my ERSA because i was forced to remove big red tag that says EMERGENCY... seriously, just make it close book and be done with it... surely we can all recall the schedules in the 727 manual. maybe we should make it closed book navigation too and forbid maps as it could be considered cheating.. surely every "professional" pilot if remembering every obscure ruling not applicable to daily life but comes up once in a while should be able to memorise every landmark from their route checks... oh wait that would be ridiculous... thanks CASA for saving the day... |
Memorising The rules?
G'day guys,
I just wanted to know if it's possible/recommended to study most of the rules off by heart? I mean, Is it a MUST to flip through the documents for reference to EVERY question? Or only the questions your abit shaky on? What are your experiences in regards to the questions? Regards, In Out p.s. Not meaning to drift off thread! |
Hmmm, Tagging severely limited/ not allowed because people aren't using the index and contents pages. Why aren't they being used? Because they're rediculously organised and completely inadequate!
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I knocked off ATPL Air Law close to 10 years ago now. Hadn't even heard of AFT when I sat the exam. It was simply a matter of getting the Flight Rules and Air Law book from Aviation Theory Centre sitting down and trying to find the answer to every single question.
Yes, the index was ****house to non-existent. But after the first set of questions it quickly became apparent where to find the answers based on the topic. A tag here and there helped to find things a tad quicker - licensing starting at CAR 5.x but one on ATPL save flicking through trying to find information specific to the ATPL or flick back from that tage and in to the CPL stuff - but it certainly wasn't the be all and end all. Didn't even bother hilighting, after finishing all those questions, I'd read most of those same paragraphs 20 times. Since getting out in to the industry and flying with guys, and watching a number of them attempt to pass the ATPLs, it absolutely amazes me the length they go to just to "pass the exam" rather than learn the material. I've seen at least 30 different ways of cheating, and a huge number of books tagged with the messiest tags it's impossible to find anything anyway (seriously, space them out so you can read five tags at a time, rather all on top of each other, I didnt think it was that hard?!) Seriously the amount of time wasted on these schemes that ultimately don't work and lead to more whining about the exams would be much better spent actually studying - the guys who do actually study rather than look for the cheat sheets are the ones from what I've seen who are passing first time with 90+ % glenb: CASA do already consult with a small number of instructors in the industry. The lecturer I had for Flight Planning previously wrote exam questions for CASA and three years after I did the exam went back to writing exam questions for another two years, before getting back in to teaching again. PPL students can also use the VFR Flight Guide, though the information in it is not regularly updated (though very few things in it change!). It might suprise a lot of you to know they do adjust the exams based on pass marks. If people are constantly getting a certain question wrong, the question is reviewed. While sitting my ATPLs the time allowed in some exams was increased and decreased in others based on performance of previous candidates (we saw a lot of these changes in the year after moving to cyber based exams because people were taking longer with the computer, although two of the exams decreased in time because most people finished earlier). If this rule change means less guys are passing (and I'd be pissed as well if I was the bunny taking Air Law the week after it changes, fail because I need another 15 minutes without tags) then you will see the time allowed increase. If enough people accept the change, study hard enough to pass without tags and manage to do it in the time allowed, well you won't see any difference will you? |
Geez you are a cynical pilot aren't you :)
The exam is there, if you want an ATPL it's what you have to do, deal with it. I don't mind if you want to stick with the small stuff, no skin off my nose. |
Where on the CASA web are the new rules re tabbing??? What amazes me is how CASA feel the need to make changes due to "Security Measures", or so I read are the reasons behind the changes.
Probably there are too many candidates passing the ATPL's and CPL's theory tests these days and CASA aren't making enough money from candidates re-sitting exams, also ASL are probably down a few bob and have advised CASA that to increase revenue lets just adopt another stupid method to increase our profits. And to all those out there who did their Seniors,ATPL's before colour TV and the telephone were invented where certain practices weren't allowed in the exam "WHO CARES" changes occur with the times people. Lets look at moving forward and adopting better practices rather than living in the 1950's where our industry still is.........:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh: |
So glad I've already done Airlaw, Performance & Loading, and Flight Planning... Feel sorry for anyone who hasn't! :sad:
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el_capitano: it's hidden away in the cyber exams section:
Civil Aviation Safety Authority - CASA Exam Policy |
All I'm thinking is sucked in! :}
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Ah that sucks... :uhoh:
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Note...try booking an exam sometime in the next 10 days....not a chance in hell. It's funny what motivates people to do the study isn't it? Motivation technique here, a combination of fear and panic.... If security was the real reason, why could they not rule that all tags must be in English, as the manuals are.... |
I think the main problem here is not only the policy but the time of implementation. Sure if they said a few weeks/months so schools, ATPL theory organizations such as Secombe etc could re organize and prepare classes given the new circumstances but this has not eventuated and now they will get a flurry of guys attempting exams in the next week-two who a.) are not ready and b.) will clearly not learn the topic but just a pass as you say.
Doing this for IREX especially could prove fatal but anyways thats not for me to judge. |
Quote: Hopeless index on CAR/CAO Read: non-existant :p |
Today managed to call up Casa and speak to supposedly someone who was heavily involved in the decision making behind these new changes. Apparently he is the head of tha air law division and can be contacted on 02 6217 1643 if anyone has any questions.. asked him to find the standard rate of climb/descent in aip since it aint in index and started timing- seems like he struggled a fair bit:ugh:
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Whaaaaat! there you go, CASA cant even use the AIP's without tags. We should all give this guy a call and see if he can answer our questions! :}
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We wouldnt want to interupt them from the good work that they do...
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