Building hours for that first job...
 

Hi there,

First of all this isn’t a thread asking for a job and I did not post this thread in the hope of getting a job offer from a forum user.

I completed my CPL + MECIR nearly 6 months ago and I have been getting through the ATPL exams once funds become available for me to book them. I’ve been keeping my eye out on the AFAP website and reading the Aviation section of the Australian Newspaper every Friday in the hope of trying to find a low hour job offer that I can apply for.

So far nothing is available for me. Only jobs requiring a minimum of 400 hours (I only have about 200). I haven’t been bothered to apply for these jobs as quite simply, I do not meet the minimum requirements and I don’t want to waste the operators time with looking over a resume that doesn’t meet their minimum requirements. I bet they would get a lot of resumes that simply don't measure up.

I am writing to get some advice on how to secure that illusive first job. My pilot resume is nothing flash. I have a couple of questions for those in the know that might be able to assist me.

Should I spend a couple of grand and get some 182 / 206 time?
Spend money on a 172 to get my hours up?
Should I invest 14k in an instructor rating in the hope of getting an instructing job?
Should I approach private pilots at the airports (YBAF / YBCG) and ask if I can co-pilot to get a bit more experience and possibly log some time? Surely there would be a couple of aircraft owners out there that aren’t looking to make a career out of flying.
Would it be a good idea to find people that do a few ferry flights?

Obviously the above is for aircraft that I can fly (<5600 kg MOTW, retract. & manual prop. pitch)

I had a read over the fellow forums member that went up north in the hope of finding a flying job. It was one of my plans but I was a little discouraged when nothing became available for him. Perhaps it was his own undoing in starting the thread while he was looking.

Sorry if this is a little long winded but I wouldn’t mind some alternative thinking, ideas and suggestions that could assist in getting some hours up. It would really be a great help.

Thanks.

Two out of the three people I know who went north for work found something. Not trying to offer any advice, but though it might cheer you up!

Right now in Kunus there are about 25 Pilots out of work. Slingair have already hired for the season and Alligator will take on about 10 more by the end of the hiring.

That gives you a 40% chance of getting a job if you hang around.

They seem this year to favour guys with low time and NIL experience.

A couple of hours in a 200 series Cessna won't hurt you and make sure you have a NVFR. There are heaps of guys this year without it, only a ME-CIR and if that is not current you can't fly under the NVFR.

Realistically you have probably missed the up north boat this season, an Instructor rating will be your best bet if you want to work until next year. By then you will have to many hours for an entry level scenic job and no charter time to get on a multi engine aeroplane.

If you wait it out until next year you won't have any currency and that will bite you too.

Flying is a funny thing and the goal posts are always moving just when you think the ball is about to go in. Some guys get lucky, others slog it out for years and years.

Good Luck (and don't listen to those clowns in the flying schools about 'up north' half of them have no idea)

glider towing - join a gliding club and be a tug pilot
parachute ops
firespotting - although wrong season
pest controllers up north fly around as do sparkies find some that fly - check the casa aircraft register for insurance companies or as above to apply to for private work.
station work see casa site as above
instructing
find who does the radio traffic reports and fly them

plenty of work which doesnt involve paying punters to build your skills to set yourself up for the first full-time job.

get an LR and drive the pickup bus for someone until a slot opens up...

if your hungry enough an opportunity will show itself:ok:

Xcel speaks wise, as do the other fellas here.

Mate i know how you feel, with 320 hours here i've spent 12 months looking for work. You need to get out and do your best to meet the chief pilots. an email will not cut it (i found this the hard way) Also be prepared to move, i'm planning on moving mid year if nothing surfaces.

Aviation is a funny mistress, you will get work, you just need to tough it out it'll make that first job all the more sweeter.

and what ever you do, do not give up, too many people throw away their dreams just because it got a little tough.

I feel sorry for the blokes who have no one to grab all this information from (PPRuNe :}) and end up at the flight school with the best website (sausage factory) and get shoved out on the street with licenses with no idea what to do next.

I'm lucky and have been told by many who have been there and done that and know it's going to be a hard slog, but flying is fun so I'm doing it anyway :E.

What ever you do make sure you HAVE FUN!!!

This in no way is having a go at you, but have you had a search of the older threads with the title "first job" in them on here?

When I was in your situation I did exactly that, read about others experiences and gained from their stories. There are some cracker ideas in them and that that led me to get my start.

As an aside, you are in Qld, even if you dont want to "head north" in the traditional sense- ie NT or WA, what about a drive up the coastal road of Qld, from my limited knowledge of the area there is PLENTY of aviation going on in that part of the world. Scenic flying, parachuting, charter. If all else fails at least you have had a pretty damn cool roadtrip.

Like others have said, good on you for getting on here and being pro-active, that already puts you ahead. But you still have to act on the idea's to grab a spot...

I would strongly advise that you go and buy some Heavy Single hours.

Cessna 200 series time is highly regarded by charter companies.

There are many flying schools along the east coast who can offer a heavy single endorsement and consequent consolidation of those hours with highly experienced instructors. (ie dual navigation exercises)

Once you have 5-20 hours of such experience, update your resume with a separate column of "Heavy Single hours".

You'll be a shoe-in :ok:

a heavy single endorsement???? :rolleyes:
does a c150 full fuel & 2 bums count? :E

So do you have to suffix your callsign with 'Cessna 206 Heavy'? Geez, its just a dirty ole motor plane!

I would agree get an experienced pilot, not an instructor, perhaps someone who has or used to operate the type in the real world and after you are allowed to private hire the aircraft, take said pilot with you and I'm sure for a carton or two they will instill a great deal more practical commercial operating techniques than an experienced instructor could. Not having a go at instructors, just my two bobs worth.

Plus, the two cartons would be much less than the instructor hire, and you don't have to fight the experienced bloke about who is logging it as command....

j3

Hi j3pipercub, may I respectfully disagree with your comments regarding .

May I say, that many instructors have experience and that 'said' instructors could even have substantial heavy single time?

Believe me, instructional experience on heavy singles is highly regarded when applying for an airline position :ok:

Eloquent elocution is certainly another attribute positively reviewed.

Certainly nothing wrong when flying a heavy single with prefixing your callsign with "Heavy" when inbound to a CTAF, as there are many light singles such as jabirus out there that struggle to do half the IAS of your typical heavy Cessna and appreciate the heads up!

C206 Heavy?
 

Why spend more money.? Your already qualified to enjoy the heavy 206,s.
Depends on how deep your pockets are, but that job will NOT come to you.
I left Coloundra many years ago and had a list of EVERY piston single operator in Aus. That was my challenge and my dream. I would avoid instructing, as i truely believe that commercial charter flying and freight flying in the wet and dry will consolidate a firm grounding and you,ll come out the over side (in some cases spat out) but the experience will hold you in good stead and teach you more than ccts in a C152 heavy.?
Go to NT!. Forget KNX.
Now i,ll breath. Apologise for my rant, but i,m not flying 152 heavys anymore.
M:ok:

Compylot- you have got to be kidding!!!!!! Read you AIP/Jepp for a definition of when to add 'Heavy' to your callsign. To the best of my knowledge there are no 'Heavy' piston aircraft as it is determined solely by weight. FWIW it is not at all difficult to fly a fully loaded 206/210 around the circuit at 80 kts if required to fit the traffic pattern (this is called Airmanship!).

sweet jesus :ugh: I hope that was a wind up.... but from some of your other posts..... :eek:

Ok Compy, nice fishing expedition, I needed a laugh.

Compylot good one. :ok:

Does that make a Cessna Caravan a Super Heavy?

Compylot
 

GOLD! :}

a few more characters

Does that mean that the C209 is a Super Heavy single? :}

Please confirm this is a wind-up. Or let me know where you fly, so I can listen in to some CTAF chatter - should be entertaining.

command time
 

Anytime in command is good. If I were you I would go and fly the 182 for a bit then go and hire a 210 for at least 3 - 5 hours (depending on budget) I am unaware of any operators up your way with 210's for hire.

OR ... this has been said before, if you really wanted to go and build up your hours try and find 2 friends who will be willing to cost share or even pay a little bit to help you out. :ok:

Bwahaha, you actually think that I conduct myself in this manner in the real world or when at an interview?

Zapp,

Look at the tools previous posts, you'll see a pattern

j3

Since when did a C-206 produce Wake Turbulence? The term "Heavy" when communicating with ATC refers to aircraft with a Max Certified Take Off weight exceeding 250,000 lbs under FAA Certification.

The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) classifies those aircraft as “Heavy” that have a certificated maximum takeoff weight of 300,000 lb. Also called a "Heavy Jet".

This is strictly a heads up to the ATC controller of the need to apply wake turbulence separation standards.

Enter controlled airspace and identifying yourself as "Heavy" in a 206 will raise a few eyebrows at least and more likely result in being asked to telephone SATCO after landing for a little chat ....... :hmm:

You want a heavy single? Try the P47D Thunderbolt.
MTOW 8,800kg.:ooh:

I would hope so.

A heavy single, such as a DC-10 with #1 and #3 out would be quite a bonus on a CV. Airlines want to know that you can handle emergencies.

I hear on the grape-vine that Mr Dotau has been tucking away on faaaaar too much ice-cream, so the aircraft he flies may indeed be a heavy.


But seriously ..... keep plugging away at the Old Boy Network. You'll often get the best jobs that way.

Hi,

Thanks for the replies, it does give me a few more things to consider and options that I haven’t even thought of which was my aim in starting the thread.

Currently I am considering some 200 series time – about 10 hours or so, probably about $2850 for that in a 206. I think it would be a good step in the right direction as I have noticed the majority of charter companies do have 206’s and 210’s in their fleet.

In terms of CIR and NGT VFR, I would just have to keep my CIR recency up to be able to fly at night. I would rather keep that up then pay for a VFR NGT rating.

I noticed that a few of the glider groups use the Piper Pawnee – tail wheel endorsement required. Possibly a good way of getting some hours up over the weekend but I would like to visit these places in person and ask a few questions before outlaying money for the endo.

Parachute ops – I know of a couple around SE Qld, both pilot positions seem well secure by their current crew. I have heard that ‘meat bombing’ hours aren’t as favorable as bush time by some charter companies. Don’t shoot me for saying that, I am just repeating what I have been told.

Ideally I would like to have a little more experiences before hitting the road and heading up north as I am certain that every other newly qualified pilot would have the exact same qualifications as me. I would like to have something on my resume that would stand out from the rest and perhaps make me a more favourable candidate for a low hour position.

I will keep working on it and saving some money up.

Thanks once again for the replies.

You have to keep your CIR current. It will be an expensive exercise to keep renewing it, if you are flying a single out in the bush!


Re NVFR + CIR, have a look at this thread.

Good call....that's what I did when I headed North. You have a rating that allows you to fly at night so why pay for another rating. The $ you spend on the NVFR would probably pay for 2 renewals...and who knows....you will may have the opportunity to progress to multi IFR by then (wouldn't it suck missing out on a ME IFR opportunity because you didn't have a current rating).

Personally, I would not invest in too many 210/206 hours-waste of money. Get a couple under your belt so you can go into a check ride with confidence.

Good luck.

C172 Copilot...?
 

Isn't this reserved for two crew aerial devices engaged in commercial operations where the ops manual requires two crew?

I don't understand what you're getting at.

I'd agree with the 206/210 time for simply the reason of confidence when you're asked to go for a fly. I only had 3 hours in a 206 when I headed off but at least I wasn't going in blind. This was also the first time I had ever been in a cessna so it helped from that regard too.

The road trip up the coast sounds like a good idea too. Never know what you'll find.

Network well and that may help your cause too, but some time in these newly classed heavy singles is a good idea.

(and to think I accepted a wake turbulence waiver all these years without knowing!):}

I'm pretty sure you can't log copilot on anything other than a certified two crew aircraft, e.g. B737 except where an operations manual requires two pilots for a single pilot certified aircraft like a B200. For other operations e.g. C404 'two crew' there is the PIC and a safety pilot, but that is not a copilot.

Logging copilot on anything like a light single would be looked at suspiciously.

By all means, go for a ride with a more experienced pilot but don't put it in your logbook unless you are the PIC or are under instruction in a dual operation.

I did encounter some wake turbulence doing steep turns today in an ultralight heavy single (p2008 Sierra)..It was my own.does that still count?

TSIO540 - understood - I understand what you're saying.

Would anyone know a good contact around YBAF / YBCG that has a 206 and 210 for hire? Feel free to send a PM if you like.

Thanks

Save the money, or perhaps get a few hours on a 206. Buy a ticket next September and come to Africa. Start in Maun, Botswana, if nothing, head to Dar es Salaam or Arusha in Tanzania.
Good jobs, good maintence, and logging around 750-900 hours a year. With progression into a Caravan after a year (and all the training/type ratings are paid for)

dotau

It's nearly been three months since you last posted. How is everything coming along? Did you decide on some 200 series time?

Only just noticed the reply to my above post.
Times change, although a lot of people turned up this season, 24 got hired, and they were all the ones that took the time to wait around. Of the ones that didn't get hired which was only a few, they all headed west to Namibia and got hired there as that was the start of the hiring season there.
You can't hope to get a job by just sitting around at home, and coming from a guy who left the country to build hours, I find it strange that you aren't of the opinion for others to get out there and give it a go.
And the money spent, in 3 months here in botswana, you will spend approximately $2-3000.
Cheaper than 3 months in Australia or NZ in my opinion. Or, you will gain perhaps 10hrs in a 172.
3 months in africa having one hell of a time and a experience of a lifetime, or 10hrs in a 172, plus another 10hrs that you would spend on the airfare getting here.

You choose.

liftboy262.
Sounds like an adventure indeed. Just out of curiosity, what did you have to do to convert your licence? Did you head over there with a bare Aus cpl? I'd be keen for a bit more info.