Mirage 111 at Wangaratta
 

Droped in to Wang the other da and saw a Marage 111 Ex RAAF parked there. here seems to be a kero smell comming from the jet pipe so i assume it has at least been run recently.

Does it fly

Who owns it,

Whats its future.


Seems it would be quite a hot ship for a plaything.

Cannot imagine anyone short of the Loweys having the cash to run a Mirage 111, nor can I imagine CASA giving approval either. :{

Why would CASA not give approval for a Mirage to operate considering that they allow L39's etc ? (serious question)

There's a company that does vintage aircraft restorations out at Wangaratta aerodrome, so it was probably there for that.

It's been sitting at Wang for a while now.

The Mirage has been there since my last visit in the 1990's. I've got photos of it there in about 1993, but not on this computer.

It won't fly again and the engine is unlikely to be run again because of the high chance of a fire in the burner can from an "over-rich" start, a regular occurrence in RAAF ops, hence the rubbish bin full of water on standby at every start.

The kero smell was probably someone washing some grease or oil stains off with kero, or an enthusiastic curator keen to keep the punters hopeful.

Why would you want to fly a complex military aircraft that was designed with an ejection seat, a drag chute and was required to be operated off an ATC manned and protected airfield with a crash barrier and full fire service......from a small civilian airfield with no facilities and no restrictions on which Tom, Dick or Harry could just cut you off in the circuit at 90kts when you are still slowing down to 210kts at high alpha on final?

The L39 flies at speeds similar enough to normal aircraft speeds in the circuit to be safe.

The Mirage doesn't start flying until way faster than normal aircraft and it stops flying while still well above normal aircraft speeds.

I'd love to see one fly again too, but it won't happen.

You can't compare a real fighter like the Mirage with a very limited capability and short range INTERCEPTOR like that pommy heap of rubbish, no matter how impressive its vertical performance is with next to no fuel in its guts.

"Tigs" is right it's been there for yonks! Shall never fly (although ya never know!:})
Can't imagine the boffins letting it fly without an escort ahead of, (like the first iron horse powered automobiles needing a flag waving person ahead of the infernal contraption) trouble is what's fast enough to escort it anyway?:) Amazing beast to look at though, me takes me hat off to the real fighter jocks that flew 'em.............man are they cramped & an ergonomic night mare in the cockpit compared to 2day's fighting machines.
What do you do with several tonnes of A/C (if you could fly it that is)& had to bail out over the mountains (which are close to WGT) on a hot summers day with all that jet fuel just waiting to burn our forests? I don't think so!!

Who recalls the Mirage that landed gear up at Tulla about a 100000 yes ago? Amazing stuff!!
Nope it's a looker for sure but that's about it!:ok:

Off topic here 'cause I can't be bothered starting a new thread. Spoke to the AV Twr the other day & asked what's with the B58 parked next to the 911 (gotta love that number!!!) DC10 water bomber? He says it flies ahead of the DC10 by about 150 meters to guide the big "10" to the drop zone.............SHEEEEZZZZ the Beech flies flat out & the 10 flies near on the stall (well almost!).............yep I know which plane I'd rather be in !:}
.....cockpit conversation during a drop run............Capt it's a lot bumpier today than usual that last bump was a doozey, ...........yeah it is rough the skipper says but don't worry about that what happened to the escort plane???:}


Wmk2

At least they wouldn't have to be worried about wake turbulence from the BE58. 150 metres is damn close! (hence your comments no doubt)

Quaintly naive and ill informed
 

Not sure why a ThunderCity website Lightning was brought up when talking about a Wangaratta parked up Mirage? Fairly sure there is no connection between the two aircraft, although it is certain the tragic crash of the two seat Lightning (belonging to ThunderCity) a little while ago will be considered if anyone ever tries to fly a Mirage in Australia on the civil register.

Even so, in terms of comparing two aircraft built in a similar era for exactly the same short range INTERCEPTOR mission, why wouldn't you? Both the Mirage and Lightning were hugely successful in their day, neither had long legs and both finished up performing missions beyond the original INTERCEPTOR role. Despite their high attrition relative to more modern types, I have never met a pilot who flew either who didn't love them. I have even met some who flew both and have never heard a preference given.

Personally, I just saw Lightnings and Mirages as targets...:ok:

That has got to be the post of the week! :D

You missed the point, ace. The Lightning and Pointy were being compared...and there is no comparison. :} As for kills:

:D

I'll bite! What were you in, a YF12A? ;)

A 'Target' on a RADAR screen perhaps?????:}

Weeellllll, there is this mural at Temora. Every aircraft depicted is flying there....except one:}

Realisticly, the 111-0 was built here so that gets it in the ballpark for consideration. There was one built with a RR Avon up its backside(City of Hobart..no A number)...so...same engine as the Sabre and Canberra...parts commonality and service expertise..not to mention a couple of pilots who may know a thing or three how to fly them...In answer? Temora has the expertise to put one in the air and keep it there. The limitation must be if TEM has enough runway to launch the thing.

Doesn't the Pakistan Air Force still operate Mirages including some of ours.

or in the HUD. Either was satisfactory for a firing solution, along with several off boresight options :ok: (for training purposes only of course. Both types were on our side!)

Indeed they do. Would they, though?

On comparing Frightenings and Miracles? I stick with my earlier comment BTW I had a preference. It had to be the Lightning. Quite a bit bigger than a Mirage and with twice as many heat sources. This made it easier to detect on radar, easier to see and easier to get a WVR missile lock!:}

There is a Mirage III C on the Swiss Civil Register, but this is a quite different beast to the Australian III O I really doubt the central "avionics" would ever allow the beast to fly again, the Sperry Twin gyro platform we were forced to use is steam driven technology and never did quite integrate to the BEZU attitude system.

The auto command flight control system requires quite sopecialised "Analogue" knowledge and the general electrics on the beast are a French technological marvel, when they all work.

Navigation by the Canadian CDC box is at best guess work and without radar vectoring the aircraft is unlikely to find its way home !!! no reflection on pilot skills, just a statement of fact. This is quite a different beastie from the Sabre which is a gentlemans aircraft.

A Mirage III O VFR is a frightening thought.

As someone once said the Lightning was a fantastic aircraft for attacking your own airfield ...

At least the Smiths Attitude system on the Lightning was relatively reliable being a single source integrated system, the "speed tape" not so good, but backup suck and blow instruments reliable if somewhat lagging the acceleration and performance of the aircraft.

Late 60's 75 Sqn RAAF operated a detachment of Mirages at Tengah alongside 74 Sqn RAF Lightnings, the Mirages were more reliable even though the BEZU/ Sperry TGP system gave lots of trouble in the humid conditions.

Short range
 

As everyone always said about the Mirage!:}

Nature of the beast I'm afraid. Them pesky European rocket ships were all short legged!

In my experience, some RAAF Mirage pilots were self-opinionated windbags who flew an aircraft with about enough range to defend the outer marker. Our bombers, transports, helicopters and FACs (OK, FACs were fighter jocks and I take my hat off to them) were in Vietnam. At least our Navy Skyhawk 'knucks' had a carrier landing to cope with at the end of their sorties (also always 'training').

Yet the RAAF of the seventies and eighties had this bizarre culture of 'if you ain't a fighter pilot, you ain't sh-t'.

P.S. Is RAAF News still called 'F-18s and Doggies Monthly'?

P.P.S. Is it true that the only aircraft shot down by the British RAF since the end of World War Two have been their own?

The Israel Air Force thought the Mirage 111 was pretty good....

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Captain Dart
 

"P.P.S. Is it true that the only aircraft shot down by the British RAF since the end of World War Two have been their own?"

Not true.

Falklands War "Britain’s 21 air-to-air kills by Harriers carrying AIM-9L Sidewinders".

11 IAI Dagger A 9 by Sea Harrier
10 A-4B Skyhawk 3 by Sea Harrier
7 A-4C Skyhawk 2 by Sea Harrier
3 FMA IA 58 Pucará 1 by Sea Harrier

3 A-4Q Skyhawk Navy 3 by Sea Harrier.
2 Mirage IIIEA 1 by Sea Harrier
2 B.Mk62 Canberra 1 by Sea Harrier
1 C-130E Hercules 1 by Sea Harrier

Conditions apply - (to Mirage joyflight)

You must not have (a) heart and/or neurological problems.

Participants are advised ... to avoid alcohol the previous day.

I guess that cuts out most - the heartless, the nutters and the drunks.

dwarfhunter, the Sea Harrier was operated by the Royal Navy, not the RAF.

Hey Captain Dart, I think you are right. In an earlier post on this thread Capn Bloggs reported a Lightning once shot down an unmanned RAF Harrier (I had never heard that one!), and of course we all know about the famous RAF Phantom on RAF Jaguar over Germany back in the 70s!

To credit the RAF with some success because they do have excellent training, it is often brought up that Lt Cdr Dave Morgan of Sea Harrier fame was Flt Lt Dave Morgan when he was a Falklands War hero.:ok: Several additional Falklands aerial victories in Sea Harriers were achieved by other RAF pilots who were seconded to the FAA at the time.

BTW, is this Wang Mirage a 2 seater? I thought you guys were saying it's a Mirage 3O. It won't ever take a passenger anywhere, let alone over the Swiss Alps!:uhoh:

Any RAF kills in the various sand pit skirmishes over the last 20 years?

The point about the Mirage in Switzerland is that it can be done. Good on those involved if they can get the Oz machine going..:D

The saddest part of this story is that the wonderful Museum left to Wangaratta by Joe Drage, of which this aircraft was a Star was dispersed by the local Council and is no more

Does that include the won that was "scared" out of the sky? My recollection is that it got zapped by a Harrier and took such violent evasive action that it crashed!

Dr :8

Pretty hard to shoot down aircraft with AIM-9Ls that are operating beyond their normal range...:cool:

Wallsofchina

Hear hear :D

Rgds

WallsofChina and Fris B. agree with your sentiments one hundred percent. Short sighted bureaucrats:yuk::ugh:

Could have been another Temora.

Regarding the Wangaratta air museum, the building was taken over by a large 'warbird' restoring operation. The museum volunteers were kicked out, but the good news is that they are now busy setting up a smaller version at Benalla; Benalla Aviation Museum. It is also a memorial to 11 EFTS wartime training unit (some 80 Tiger Moths operated there).

The boys are restoring a Tiger to static, and arrangements are in hand for better accommmodation and more exhibits. There is also a Winjeel and a de Havilland Moth Minor operating from BLA, with links to the Museum. It will never be on the scale of Drage Airworld or Temora, but there is now more to Benalla than gliders, 'Weary' Dunlop and the rose gardens!

Not a lot to see at present but the BAM has a working day on Wednesday and is open on Sundays, and visitors are always welcome.

Captain Dart
 

Sorry Captain, you may be correct. Can't recall them shooting anything down over Iraq.

Is that the same Mirage that took the top off a caravan whilst being transported by road?

According to the current Flightpath mag she's gonna fly again. Good on the bloke behind it!! :ok:

Last time I saw it, inside Drage Airworld it had a wing tip bent up after a collision when it was delivered.

The RAF shot down or maneuver killed an Indonesian C130 loaded with paratroopers during Confrontation. The aircraft was a Javelin out of Tengah, Singapore.

Plenty of RAF pilots shot down Migs in Korea on exchange with the USAF.