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Mirage 111 at Wangaratta

Old 8th Feb 2010, 08:40
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Mirage 111 at Wangaratta

Droped in to Wang the other da and saw a Marage 111 Ex RAAF parked there. here seems to be a kero smell comming from the jet pipe so i assume it has at least been run recently.

Does it fly

Who owns it,

Whats its future.


Seems it would be quite a hot ship for a plaything.
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Old 8th Feb 2010, 09:49
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Cannot imagine anyone short of the Loweys having the cash to run a Mirage 111, nor can I imagine CASA giving approval either.
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Old 8th Feb 2010, 10:12
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Why would CASA not give approval for a Mirage to operate considering that they allow L39's etc ? (serious question)
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Old 8th Feb 2010, 10:15
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There's a company that does vintage aircraft restorations out at Wangaratta aerodrome, so it was probably there for that.
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Old 8th Feb 2010, 10:38
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It's been sitting at Wang for a while now.
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Old 8th Feb 2010, 14:16
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The Mirage has been there since my last visit in the 1990's. I've got photos of it there in about 1993, but not on this computer.

It won't fly again and the engine is unlikely to be run again because of the high chance of a fire in the burner can from an "over-rich" start, a regular occurrence in RAAF ops, hence the rubbish bin full of water on standby at every start.

The kero smell was probably someone washing some grease or oil stains off with kero, or an enthusiastic curator keen to keep the punters hopeful.

Why would you want to fly a complex military aircraft that was designed with an ejection seat, a drag chute and was required to be operated off an ATC manned and protected airfield with a crash barrier and full fire service......from a small civilian airfield with no facilities and no restrictions on which Tom, Dick or Harry could just cut you off in the circuit at 90kts when you are still slowing down to 210kts at high alpha on final?

The L39 flies at speeds similar enough to normal aircraft speeds in the circuit to be safe.

The Mirage doesn't start flying until way faster than normal aircraft and it stops flying while still well above normal aircraft speeds.

I'd love to see one fly again too, but it won't happen.
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Old 8th Feb 2010, 15:32
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ENGLISH ELECTRIC LIGHTNING

History
Not since the era of the Spitfire, has any single aircraft captured the hearts and imaginations of fighter pilots like the English Electric Lightning. Undoubtedly Britain’s most charismatic and best-loved jet fighter, this supersonic cold war jet interceptor is powered by Rolls Royce Avon 302 afterburning turbojet engines and is capable of supersonic performance in most flight conditions.

The Lightning is known for its vertical climb performance and it still holds a number of world climb-to-altitude records. It is capable of Mach 2.2 (1500 m.p.h.) and an initial climb rate of 50,000 feet per minute.


In South Africa Thunder City operates the last two serviceable twin engined two-seater (side-by-side) supersonic cold war jet-interceptor Lightnings in the world, together with two single seater F6 that is primarily used for aerobatic displays at air shows.

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Powerplant
Two 16,300 lb. After burning Rolls Royce Avon 30201 turbojets
Weights
Max. take-off 18,900 kg (41,700 lb.)
Maximum velocity
Mach 2 at 15,000 feet
Dimensions Wing span
10.61m
Length
16.84m
Height
5.97m
Crew
2
Ceiling
60,000 feet plus

From Thunder City's website. If you've got the money, sonny.
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Old 8th Feb 2010, 19:43
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You can't compare a real fighter like the Mirage with a very limited capability and short range INTERCEPTOR like that pommy heap of rubbish, no matter how impressive its vertical performance is with next to no fuel in its guts.
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Old 8th Feb 2010, 22:17
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At least they wouldn't have to be worried about wake turbulence from the BE58. 150 metres is damn close! (hence your comments no doubt)
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Old 8th Feb 2010, 23:55
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Quaintly naive and ill informed

You can't compare a real fighter like the Mirage with a very limited capability and short range INTERCEPTOR like that pommy heap of rubbish, no matter how impressive its vertical performance is with next to no fuel in its guts.
Not sure why a ThunderCity website Lightning was brought up when talking about a Wangaratta parked up Mirage? Fairly sure there is no connection between the two aircraft, although it is certain the tragic crash of the two seat Lightning (belonging to ThunderCity) a little while ago will be considered if anyone ever tries to fly a Mirage in Australia on the civil register.

Even so, in terms of comparing two aircraft built in a similar era for exactly the same short range INTERCEPTOR mission, why wouldn't you? Both the Mirage and Lightning were hugely successful in their day, neither had long legs and both finished up performing missions beyond the original INTERCEPTOR role. Despite their high attrition relative to more modern types, I have never met a pilot who flew either who didn't love them. I have even met some who flew both and have never heard a preference given.

Personally, I just saw Lightnings and Mirages as targets...
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Old 9th Feb 2010, 01:38
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Personally, I just saw Lightnings and Mirages as targets...
That has got to be the post of the week!
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Old 9th Feb 2010, 02:06
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in terms of comparing two aircraft built in a similar era for exactly the same short range INTERCEPTOR mission, why wouldn't you?
You missed the point, ace. The Lightning and Pointy were being compared...and there is no comparison. As for kills:

In its time aloft, the Lightning was credited with only a single air-to-air kill - this being a "runaway" Harrier. The Harrier pilot had successfully ejected but his aircraft continued on course. A Lightning was sent to intercept and destroy the aircraft to which it did.


Personally, I just saw Lightnings and Mirages as targets...
I'll bite! What were you in, a YF12A?
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Old 9th Feb 2010, 02:35
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A 'Target' on a RADAR screen perhaps?????
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Old 9th Feb 2010, 05:08
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Weeellllll, there is this mural at Temora. Every aircraft depicted is flying there....except one

Realisticly, the 111-0 was built here so that gets it in the ballpark for consideration. There was one built with a RR Avon up its backside(City of Hobart..no A number)...so...same engine as the Sabre and Canberra...parts commonality and service expertise..not to mention a couple of pilots who may know a thing or three how to fly them...In answer? Temora has the expertise to put one in the air and keep it there. The limitation must be if TEM has enough runway to launch the thing.
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Old 9th Feb 2010, 05:14
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Doesn't the Pakistan Air Force still operate Mirages including some of ours.
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Old 9th Feb 2010, 05:46
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A 'Target' on a RADAR screen perhaps?????
or in the HUD. Either was satisfactory for a firing solution, along with several off boresight options (for training purposes only of course. Both types were on our side!)

Temora has the expertise to put one in the air and keep it there.
Indeed they do. Would they, though?

On comparing Frightenings and Miracles? I stick with my earlier comment
Despite their high attrition relative to more modern types, I have never met a pilot who flew either who didn't love them. I have even met some who flew both and have never heard a preference given.
BTW I had a preference. It had to be the Lightning. Quite a bit bigger than a Mirage and with twice as many heat sources. This made it easier to detect on radar, easier to see and easier to get a WVR missile lock!

Last edited by DBTW; 9th Feb 2010 at 05:49. Reason: adding content
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Old 9th Feb 2010, 09:03
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There is a Mirage III C on the Swiss Civil Register, but this is a quite different beast to the Australian III O I really doubt the central "avionics" would ever allow the beast to fly again, the Sperry Twin gyro platform we were forced to use is steam driven technology and never did quite integrate to the BEZU attitude system.

The auto command flight control system requires quite sopecialised "Analogue" knowledge and the general electrics on the beast are a French technological marvel, when they all work.

Navigation by the Canadian CDC box is at best guess work and without radar vectoring the aircraft is unlikely to find its way home !!! no reflection on pilot skills, just a statement of fact. This is quite a different beastie from the Sabre which is a gentlemans aircraft.

A Mirage III O VFR is a frightening thought.
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Old 9th Feb 2010, 13:45
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short range INTERCEPTOR like that pommy heap of rubbish
As someone once said the Lightning was a fantastic aircraft for attacking your own airfield ...
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Old 9th Feb 2010, 22:56
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At least the Smiths Attitude system on the Lightning was relatively reliable being a single source integrated system, the "speed tape" not so good, but backup suck and blow instruments reliable if somewhat lagging the acceleration and performance of the aircraft.

Late 60's 75 Sqn RAAF operated a detachment of Mirages at Tengah alongside 74 Sqn RAF Lightnings, the Mirages were more reliable even though the BEZU/ Sperry TGP system gave lots of trouble in the humid conditions.
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Old 9th Feb 2010, 23:00
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Short range

As someone once said the Lightning was a fantastic aircraft for attacking your own airfield ...
As everyone always said about the Mirage!

Nature of the beast I'm afraid. Them pesky European rocket ships were all short legged!
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