737 Landing at Jandakot?
G'day
I've heard rumours that TAFE WA has bought an Ozjet 737 and are planning to fly it into JT. Anyone know if it's true? or if it would even be possible - the main runway is "only" about 1200m long If so when is it going to happen - I heard it was supposed to be before christmas. It'd be some sight watching a 737 have to get lifted out of the sand at the end of 06 or 24 after over-running the RWY. Or JAH flling in the trenchs from where the thing touches down. Cheers |
Air Pac used to (not sure if they still do) fly the 737 into Nausori (NFNA) which is about 1800m long. Now THAT was a hard landing and they normally pulled up by the end...not sure how they'll go with 1200m :eek: (unless they're ex RAAF :}).
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If a 747 can land on a 1500m runway at 5000 ft elevation I'm sure a 737 can land at Jandakot (just ask the Indonesians, they all most did it) :ok: GG |
Plenty of jet RPT going into <1800m strips in this country (YBMC/YBHM are two off the top of my head that are regularly visited by B737/A320), and although I can't give you any exact weights, they've normally got high passenger loads.
I'd still like to see an empty 737 blasting off on 1200m though. |
During one of the airshows at Canberra some years ago, an Ansett 767 touched down on the threshold of 35 (or whatever it is) and turned off on the runway 30. I wouldn't think that it is more than 1200 metres.
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I seem to remember apparently when they took VH-EBQ (747) to Longreach it landed with 400 metres to spare on a 1900m runway... :ok:
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Used to fly into Jersey (Channel Islands) all the time with a full 737 (300, 400 & 500). That runway was a mini-tad over 1700m and wasn't a problem. Never used more than autobrake 3 and very often could turn off way before the runway end.
As a boring aside, I once had to position a 737 to Glasgow airport. It was just the two of us up the front and we were keen to see just what max autobrake, full reverse looked and felt like. We were light (just as a Jandakot flight would be) and we touched down right at the very beginnig of the TDZ (probably 3 reds, 1 white). The bloody thing stopped so fast I'm glad I'd locked my harness and I never got to use the reverse because we'd stopped :eek: By using a bit of judiscious turning we were able to take the first exit off 05(?) which I reckon is no more than 550m from the threshold. I know, silly old fart, but I didn't half learn how quickly those things can stop if you need them to. 1200m, piece of piss :ok: (edited to add: the aircraft was going to GLA for maintenance and would be there for at least a week, so don't start the normal gobbing off about the irresponsibilty of warming up brakes for the next crew etc) |
Pontius, no humorous comments from ATC? :}
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A Virgin 737 recently landed at Mildura enroute Sydney to Adelaide. From memory that is 4,500ft / 1500 metres?
I'm of the belief that a STOL equipped 73 can operate out of 1300 metres reliably. |
I'm wondering if a 100 would manage same performance though :P
I'm also wondering whether the concrete will hold it, if there is enough room to taxi it and finally where the hell they plan to park it? Would be cool to see though. Might take up a bit of room at the holding point while they wait 25 mins for departure instructions. Another thought, would a 73 be able to comply with a mantl or armad 4 on 06 and not breach PH airspace? I'm assuming it could but it'd be interesting. Also cool to see. Final thought, would they plan to give the 73 special treatment to make a strait in approach on 24 or would it be required to join at CNB like everyone else? |
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You'd be able to land at Jandakot but would not be able to leave the main runway without hitting things with the wings. Perhaps a taxi onto 30/12 from 24/06 may work then plonking it in the middle of RACWAs lot somewhere :ok:
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I would imagine it will move soon as there is a new Logo on the side.
I think it say something like Western TAFE.:ok: |
It will happen at some stage when CASA feel up to ticking the boxes.
It will be a one shot deal, 1 arrival and there is to be no departure. Once it's at YPJT it will be staying. Arrival will be at min weight from Perth with operating crew only. According to the engineer looking after the paperwork, operating into YPJT won't even raise a sweat. |
Whats the purpose of parking it at JT? Any idea where they're planning on putting it?
I dont think anyone disagrees that it should be a museum piece. |
This info straight from the 732-QRH
Landing distance (unfactored) FLAP 40 @ 38T - 1140 meters Sounds like a job for Gordo:ok: |
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, AirNZ used to operate the 200 out of Napier (with a load obviously) in the early 90s to AK WN and CH I believe...
Napier being 1300m |
When Henderson was being re-developed/upgraded/strengthened in about '85, Air Pacific operated their 200 into the short section that was left for them to use. No alternative. And it had a big trench/stepdown at the end, so no overrun. When that section was done they got moved to using another end section. The most critical, was when the centre third section was being redeveloped.. Probably was only about 1200/1300 metres..!!? to play with. And they had to depart for Brisbane with enough payload (and fuel )for the 1150 n.m. sector to be profitable. Some sharp pencil work required..
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A 767 can touch down on runway 16 at YMML on the 1000' markers and be stopped by taxiway echo which is 1300 metres. I'm sure the 737 will handle the 1300 metres at YPJT without any dramas at all.
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The idea is to use it to train aircraft engineers. They purchased a hanger at JT lasy year where it will be parked. I have a mate at Polytechnic West (as Swan Tafe are now calling themselves) who has promised to let me know when it's arriving - no word from him recently.
Cheers |
For info, Mildura 09/27 was extended to the west in 1996. QF737 attended airshow that year and has been used a number of times as Altn when ADL fogged in.
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The idea is to use it to train aircraft engineers. at Polytechnic West (as Swan Tafe) Are they going to go head to head with Aviation Australia? ....... watch this thing become a white elephant Having been an apprentice at Swan Tafe I know they cant organise a root in a brothel with a fist full of 50's. :ugh: |
Corky McFuz - was it Gisborne?
ANZ definately operated a once-only charter 737 into Gisborne - 1310 m - in the early 1990s - don't know which model, but certainly not one of the current ones.
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I'm of the belief that a STOL equipped 73 can operate out of 1300 metres reliably |
Maybe he's thinking coral/gravel kit equipped.. a la Air Nauru..
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Air New Zealand operated a B737-200 service on week days Auckland - Napier - Christchurch for many years. it limited seats to 80 in the res computer but could take more depending on the conditions.
Napier is 1310 meters and Air NZ have operated charter flights in the 200 and 300 into Gisbourne 1310m, New Plymouth 1310m and Woodbourne 1425m. So for a B737-200 into JT would be a peice of cake. |
Hypothetically it could taxi without hitting anything as long the pavement was up to the weight, 737-200 has a 93ft wingspan, the DC-3 has 97ft and she operated quite easily assuming you kept an eye on things and taxied slowly. Plus the hangar that it's going to is the same one where the DC-3 was looked after, so an aircraft that size has been down there before.
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Capt Fathom said: I'd like to know more about the STOL equipped 73! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/evil.gif A short-field design package is available for the 737-600, -700 and -800, allowing operators to fly increased payload to and from airports with runways under 5,000 feet (1,500 m). The package consists of sealed leading edge slats (improved lift), a two-position tail skid (enabling reduced approach speeds) and increased flight spoiler deflection on the ground. These improvements are standard on the 737-900ER. |
I thought they may have been equipped with a Robertson STOL Kit! :ok:
Wikipedia! Why didn't I think of that! :ouch: |
Thanks for the replys guys.
As others have said i think they only plan on landing it - so getting out of Jandakot won't be an issue. Does anyone know about the weight/pavement? i know SFC sometimes brings their Lear 45's into JT and there used to be a DC-3 here, but surely an empty 737 would still be weigh more than them? I;ve heard they plan on landing it early in the morning so it will be cooler and the pavement will be 'stiffer'? Would that make that much difference? cheers |
I believe it has special tyres fitted which are larger than normal.
It will be towed from the runway to its new home on the northern apron. Whenever it arrives it will be at 0700 or there abouts one morning. As mentioned earlier, one way flight. |
Pontius, no humorous comments from ATC? Anyway, yes, our GLA antics did earn some comments from the Tower. I don't really know who was laughing the most because we could barely reply to their instructions to vacate next right and they were obviously amused and talking through the giggles. Despite being the ramblings of a saddo, it really was very funny at the time but we learnt something about the performance of our little toy :). PS: I had a play today and would have had no trouble drawing up a fairly well laden 767 within 1200m, so I stick with my proposition that a 737 would do it easily. I had to use the aircraft again today, so didn't thrash it but just did a little bit of test piloting :ok: |
...........that would be "performance monitoring" no doubt. ;)
On to the tyres, I assume they are larger in width because larger diameter affects braking and gains only a small amount in area. That being said it is not hard to work out the effects, and one would say they will pull her up even with reduced braking from larger rubber! |
I would be more concerned about how many wheels on the truck that it will have to be on the back of, and the width of the opening of the airport:}
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Yowie, ya got it in one. By the time they meet all the CASA and FAA requirements, it will be cheaper to truck it in sans wings, then bolt them back on.
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When??????????????
If this is going to happen, does anyone know when???
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767's seem to pull up on a dime without too much effort. Also seen a 743 pull up by rwy 21 when landing on 24 in Perth (1256m). Spoilers must actually work in these puppies...737's spoilers are pretty ineffective at slow speeds.
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737's spoilers are pretty ineffective at slow speeds I would suggest the reason for you seeing 767s and 747s slow down more effectively than the 737 is because most, certainly not all, 767s, 747s etc have carbon brakes while the majority (but not all) 737s have steel brakes. These 'fade' quicker and have poorer performance when it comes to stopping an aircraft than their more modern brothers. Also the older 737s had a pretty crap, high aspect ratio wing, compared to the newer Boeings, so the Vref is really quite high and I've certainly had higher Vrefs in the 737 than I did in the 744 or 767 (obviously quite light). Higher touchdown speeds, coupled with steel brakes, means no surprises when the newer boys exit the runway sooner. |
Used to fly into Jersey (Channel Islands) all the time with a full 737 (300, 400 & 500). That runway was a mini-tad over 1700m and wasn't a problem. Never used more than autobrake 3 and very often could turn off way before the runway end. |
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