I need to vent! CV Rage!
 

A word of advice for the young one's in this industry....please learn how to write a good C.V.

The poorly designed C.V's the company receives are of no end of amusement to myself and my colleagues.

Don't embellish . Listing every type of C172 you have flown (M, N, P, R, SP etc) does not make us want to give you a job....it makes us want to throw your C.V. away!

Don't include irrelevant certificates. Congratulations on being named best rugby player when you were in Year 5....please do not include a copy of the certificate with your C.V.

Don't write a spiel about yourself in the third person....it just makes you look...well....strange. This does not apply if you are HRH Queen Elizabeth II.

Don't mention Tertiary study and then list every single paper you have completed without an explanation as to why you never completed the qualification. Please feel free to mention fully completed or on going Tertiary study....the request to leave out a list of individual papers and grades still applies. If we desire further data, we will ask for it.

Congratulations on attending a one day introduction to 'whatever' course....this helps you as a Line Pilot how? Admittedly some of these types of courses are relevant. Please use your common sense here.

Don't list referees with the same surname as yourself...it just raises our eyebrows.

Keep it short and simple people. Two pages MAX listing relevant data. Bigger is most definitely not better. The biggest C.V. we have received whilst I have been here was pushing 100 pages. A copy of every single thing this person had done since starting Primary School!! If you hold a CPL, no real need to include a copy of a First Solo certificate...we are able to make that conclusion for ourselves.:ok:

I remembered another one.

Please don't send us a C.V. by email which also lists the 50 other people/companies you have just sent the C.V. to. We might not be special, but we like to feel like we are and a mass email of your credentials well....we're just not feeling the love.

I suspect any aircraft owners in NZ will know exactly which email I am referring to...I know for a fact you all got it:ok:

Yes point taken however that is only your opinion. I have been knocked back in the past for some jobs because my CV wasn't detailed enough. I have also had people call me up and ask me to be more thorough with my CV. Be aware that the advice people get from School careers councillors and others is along the lines of more detailed CVs. I have seen friends CV's from other industries and they are what aviation would consider over detailed but that's what employers want in that field. Aviation is really only a numbers game anyway, as long as you can tick the stupid box then you have a job.

However I agree that for aviation you shouldn't be putting on irrelevant stuff like types of 172 etc.

Haha thanks for that. It amazes me the lack of common sense that some people have. I guess they think that you have nothing better to do than sit around reading CV's all day.

Although, Out of interest, what would be a perfect CV that would get your attention? A lot of people here need a hand in grabbing the attention of a chief pilot from the thousands of other applicants.

Thank you for the tips Water Wings, that's some good advice :ok:

So which company do you recruit for? :O hehe

"WW" that was most amassing yr post re CV's:-)
I guess these days one has to please the CV filter person first before you look like getting an interview.
Gone are the days when to get a job you pretty much had to know someone as well as have a zillion hrs just to fly an beat up old PA31:-)

When I had to sift thru a million CV's looking for a driver for a past Co. I looked for a basic CV with pertinent info that suited our req's & made a short list. You can always ask a candidate in more depth his experiences at interview time.

I don't envy the young pilots of today trying to claw their way up that now fragile ladder. Once an airline pilot was looked upon with God like status, say that yr an Airline pilot these days at a party & they will want to strangle you for making their last cheap holiday miserable due lousy service even though you just point the A/C not run the Co.!!! Oh & to know how many ex wives ya got?:}

Wmk2

Turning up in person.

CV x2
 

The simple cover letter noting two attachments. The first is my CV with all the information that you need to know. The second one is my CV with more than enough detail to have at hand should you need to justify your decision to hire me to the HR Dept.
First version is one page. Second version is 8 pages.
I've only used the above format twice but got the position both times.

Like others my attention span for CVs is one page, two tops if it's REALLY interesting.

As Codger wrote simultaneously with me ... the way to kill all concerns is to include a half page (new chum) through two page (greybeard) executive summary CV (super terse) followed by a more expansive document. That way the guts is easily reviewed and the 0.00263 percent of folk who have nothing better to do with their time can read the padding following.

Our practice (greybeards) has always been along the lines that ours are two page maximum, regardless, as the folk who want to use us know enough about us anyway.

I can recall running into an undergrad engineering mate some years ago .. he proferred his CV by way of catching up on history and it was about 40 pages of waffle and questionable claims. The guts was probably worth a two-pager.

However, if you are applying for a specific job and the advert refers to required criteria or somesuch, then your covering paperwork must address those points as the advert suggests the initial vetting will be done by folk who know naught about the job and will be working on box-ticking ... if you don't get through the box-ticking front desk, the chap/girl who counts in the next room doesn't get to see your paperwork and you are out on your ear before you start spruiking to the folk who count.

I'm not the CP but we co-wrote my initial post and he is sitting in the office here with me.

Unexplained gaps in work history raise questions. A layout that's easy on the eye is a bonus. Breaking down hours into Total, PIC, Instructing etc helps. A letter or email addressed by name to the CP is a plus.

From what I have read in terms of Aviation Resume's, the Covering Letter is far more important than a polished resume, particularly with such large numbers coming in. With a good covering letter it doesn't really matter how big your resume is. If I'm going through my inbox I can quickly scan the covering letters without having to open the Word file attachments.

In the covering letter state something like the following:

- Who you are and where you come from and where you are now

- What you are doing now, as in what job (if any) and what you are flying

- Why you want to work with my company

- Note relevant experience from your attached resume that is relevant to this particular gig

- How quickly you can come and see me for an interview and when you can start. (Be realistic though, if you are flying in PNG don't claim to be able to move to Adelaide to start with me next week for example)

I can remember sending off resumes/CV's loaded with erroneous info. A modern resume should be one page; two pages, tops, even for an old fart like me. Anything more doesn't get read. It should address all pertinent information (qualifications, experience) relevant to the job being sought, nothing more. The goal of a resume is to get an interview, not get the job. Gaps in work history are common and should not be avoided. If there is a period of time employed as a bag packer at Woolies, then state it, but also add that you were continuing studies towards ATPL or something similar at the time.

I had one recently where the pretentious 'enjoy' was added in the covering letter, ie 'enjoy' reading this sickening piffle.

I didn't 'enjoy' the CV but did 'enjoy' deleting it.

Look I know most of you guys are married and have kids, but seriously. I don't really want to know that, I'm interested in you and your qualifications, not your personal life.

welll... i'll stick myself out there, anyone involved in regularly reviewing C.Vs willing to have me send them a copy of mine for a critique?

Reading the above has got me all nervous about whether maybe i'm including too much?!

If you are emailing your CV in response to an ad, don't worry about the content of the CV.

The person sifting through multiple applications doesn't actually want to open up your CV and read through it, because that wastes time. All they are interested in initially is wether or not you meet the min requirements.

So in your email message text, refer to things that the employer is looking for. Example, total time, right to live and work in that employers country, jet/turbo prop experience, type rating etc. etc.

They can then just glance at your message, determine if your a keeper or not and then move on to the next person in the list.

The next part of the process, once they've sorted the chaff from the hay, is to then open up CV's to read the details.

And include a line, "References available on request." No need to send references with an application unless requested. No applicant is going to submit a bad reference and they generally don't get read unless the resume makes it to the next round.

The secret is relevant detail, provided in an abbreviated format. Being blackboard monitor in Grade 6 may be important to you, but doesn't interest your possible future employer.

I probably read 200 to 300 CVs each year. Two things get up my nose:

• Irrelevant padding; and
• Applicants who don’t know how to use their Spell Checker.

"Unexplained gaps in work history raise questions."
 

Regarding the point that Waterwings made.

Explain the gaps. They'll always imagine something worse than what really happened. Just be honest and brief.
Learned that lesson way back.
Why did you leave that summer job mid August?
"Suicidal Bambi decided to do an instantaneous conversion to Hartzell aided finely ground venison before I'd learned to overfly and look way out to both sides of the strip that I was about to land on. Someone had to take the fall for the damage and I was volunteered."

When I was involved in recruiting for a big Euro airline, we required a CV no more than one page of A4. If it was bigger, it got filed in the bin. At the time, we were getting over a hundred CVs a week, so we had to quick; if we liked the look of a CV in the first 2-3 seconds, it got our attention and we read it.

We generally never read covering letters, the CV has the data we need and we were too busy to wade through a bunch of covering letters.

Fancy binding, cute plastic files etc all got binned as the CVs were all filed in ordinary ring binders.

Turning up in person was a no-no, we were way too busy for that. If we want to see you, we'll call.

We were looking for people who were confident in themselves, and who trusted in their abilities and didn't resort to desperation tactics. Anyone who looked desperate got binned.

At the end of the day, as CV is simply a screening device. If you don't have the qualifications, you won't be considered no matter how much irrelevant crap you put in your CV. All we want from a CV is that it be clear, legible, to the point, well set out and have no grammatical or spelling errors. The point being that if a pilot can't manage to generate a smart, error-free CV with the relevant info, we aren't going to trust him with an aircraft.

All you really need is:

- Personal details, including contact info
- Educational info including highest qual achieved
- Flying experience, broken down appropriately
- Work history for last 5-10 years
- If you really must, a short para on why we should hire you, but any more than 3-4 lines and we get bored.
- And, probably most important of all - a photo of yourself in the top right corner. Try and avoid uniform shirts and four bars if you only hold a basic CPL... makes you look like a wally.

Make sure that you have the long CV (that's the one with your certificate from kindergarten and Diploma in Advanced Coffee Making etc) ready if requested. It should include a complete work history, with all gaps accounted for.

Having good referees helps too.

.............."makes you look like a wally" and what's wrong looking like a wally 'remoak'?:)
It's amazing you can have all the right quals but if you don't please the guy going thru them all first up 'cause he believes Cv's ought to be a certain way then yr goose is cooked!:-(

Good advice though remoak:ok:


Wmk2:-)

Best piece of advice I've ever received when it comes to resume's;

Every C.V. should be tailor made for who you are applying for and do your homework. Find out if u need an MR licence to pick up pax in the company bus or if you just might need that forklift licence to shift loads in the hangar etc etc..

Simple 2 pages. First page is a brief letter the second page is the CV with personal details (DOB Birth place Marital Status Address Phone), licence/ratings hours (rounded), education, work history, referees.

The letter is very important. It needs to be brief and straight to the point. It needs to read well. Read it out lod to your flat mate over and over. They dont want your life hisotry just the crux.

The CV must be fit on one page only. I know people with heavy jet commands that easily do this so with 200 hours I doubt you need more than one page.

The less clutter the better. A clean tidy page is what they look for. Dont try and jam 10 pages worth on one page. KEEP IT SIMPLE.

Water Wings - I'm half-Kiwi and my Kiwi grandfather flew in WW1.
Can I have a job plz?
Kthxbi.

;)

Mr Hat: I'll strongly disagree with the DOB, birthplace and marital status. They aren't required until employment. You're just opening the door to identity theft and claims of discrimination.

Good point. Even better makes it even more minimalist!

Personally I'd put age :}

It is the unfortunate reality that you may be discriminated against by a potential employer, be it race, weight, marital status, looks or something else superficial.

Putting the above said information in your CV including mugshot merely makes the rejection process happen much faster. If you get to the interview after travelling half way across the country you'll be more disappointed to find out that another guy who is better looking and weighs 20kg's less than you with the same experience got the job. This is called REALITY.

The interview happens when you meet the required criteria and the employer wants to know if you are an alright guy / gal.

Hey... nothing wrong with looking like THE Wally... :ok:

We always required that on the CV, as the DOB and birthplace are necessary for preliminary security and other necessary HR checks, and marital status has a direct connection with the ability to accept certain basings or types of flying. There is no real risk of identity theft, unless you believe that airlines engage in identity theft to boost revenues.

So sick of unsolicited resumes!
 

FWIW here are some DONT'S

If I want a resume, I will ask for one. If I haven't asked for one it will go in the "unsolicited junk mail" circular filing cabinet. Sorry.

Don't call me "Dear Sir" and don't ask for a position as a charter pilot. Do your research!

Don't come in without an appointment and expect me to drop everything, because you didn't have the good manners to ask in advance when would be a convenient time.

To date I have never employed anyone I didn't train myself or who didn't come with a verbal recommendation from a respected colleague.

I have found from my experience in the past that the "squeaky wheel gets the oil"


The Dog:ok:

Yep - why I never bothered with an instructor rating or going out to the GAAPS. Packed the car and pointed it west. Didn't waste one minute trying to get a job close to home.

If you include your DOB, Birth place and Marital Status I am not going to interview you. That only opens employers to potential litigation.

I am not interested in what you look like so don't include a photo.

I read the CV first. If that meets my criteria and interests me I may then skim your covering letter.

If I ask for specific skills or qualifications and you don't hold those skills and qualifications, I am not going to interview you.

If I want additional details I will ask for those at interview.

From my airline days, I wanted to see the following on a pilot resume:

• Name, address, contact details.
  
• Summary of aviation licenses and ratings.
  
• Summary of aeronautical experience hours.
  
• Summary of previous employers.

I'm yet to see an applicant give me a bad reference or referee. In general I am not interested in your referees; if I like your resume and I interview you, then I will check with your previous (not current) employers.

What litigation would that be?

Excellent post Water Wings - you may even get a job offer out of it :8

remoak, it's actualy illegal to ask for that information. You may require an applicant to be above a certain age and to have Australian residency, but you are not entitled to the specifics.

Marital status is totally out! An applicant may or may not be able to accept a basing or certain type of flying, but that is all you can ask. You are not their marriage councellor.

The only exceptions that I have ever heard of are some jobs that have maximum age limits, some jobs that require citizenship, and jobs that require top-secret level security clearances.

You may be sued if any of those questions are asked and the applicant is subsequently not employed.

Ah OK must be an Aussie thing... the rest of the world has more sense! :}

I cant see why there should be an issue if the information is volunteered.

Certainly not the case in Europe.

I'm pretty sure the Qantaslink online application form asks for your date of birth. Does Qantas mainline ask for this as well? How about the other majors?

And if they do, then are you saying it's actually illegal to ask for it?

remoak

All good stuff you wrote on cv's etc, and on binning.

Let me pose a question to you. Did you reply or acknowledge to all CV submitting hopefuls, whether it be the standard letter of rejection or at the very least an automated response on receipt of CV? An honest reply will tell me a lot about the company you worked for and possibly a bit about yourself.

On a lighter note I did hear a story about a stressed CP who saw a stack of CV's on his desk. He grabbed half of them and threw them into the bin and was heard to say, "the last thing I need is a load of unlucky pilots". :}

A very helpful thread. I have bookmarked this one for future reference :ok:.

Is there a preferred computer programme format for resumes (ie .doc, .pdf, presumably .docx is out)

Would a current first aid certificate be relevant?

Presumably resumes with any colours apart from black and white on them go straight into the circular filing cabinet?