710m TODA - Enough for a Baron 58?
 

Am looking at a nice little property just out of sydney thats for sale. Lo and behold, it comes with a nice little 710m grass runway. All of it is useable as there are NO obstacles at either end.

Is this long enough to operate a Baron out of there (300hp) up to Max weight. I have the flight manual for the 285 hp model and it indicates only 1500ft or around 460m for ground roll (sea level nil wind ISA)

My question is how much is needed for an average pilot?

CASA used to issue P-charts for light GA aircraft which took into account many factors including, but not limited to, old aircraft and the abilities of an 'average' pilot.
Their factor was 15% over the POH figures although these days they don't make these charts anymore.

If 15% is good enough for CASA then I guess it's good enough for everyone else!

sounds tight. I don't like taking a 310 or baron thats less than 900m. Plus is the field at sea level, and how many ISA days to you get in Sydney?, density height will have a large factor on safely operating out of a shortish strip.

Also depends of course on what your payload intends to be in and out of there. Just you and min fuel for a 20min flight, probably no worries. Add a few pax into the equation also, your mates won't understand when you start saying you can't take 5 for a joyflight as the runway isn't long enough, it's too hot or whatever.

Finally, how do you determine an average pilot. What is your proficiency on the aircraft. How often do you fly it, your time on type, total time. For a rough idea of how well you can do it, next time you go into a 1000m strip land and try and pull it up by the 700m mark.

Just a few points to ponder. Hope it all works out.:ok:

900M is the figure I would use as a minimum at MTOW, especially on a non paved runway. I would recommend getting a grader in for a day, it'll be cheaper than if you run off the end! That way you won't have to worry, unless it's 40C...;)

PS: You would get the Baron in OK, but you may not get it out again!:eek:

??

Where aeroplanes are concerned, getting out is generally a bigger issue than getting in - in my experience. :E

Dr :8

Getting in has been my issue lately - but then, I've been married for about 7 years now.... :{

Yeah, get your grader out and give it another 300 meters with a turning circle at the end. Its ok to bend it a bit to get it to fit. The surface is the important thing - a bit of gravel on the centre 5 meters does wonders.

And, why not a couple of 100mm reo concrete pads under the props and tires where you park ?

You going to paint the cones black on one side and yellow on the other ? :)

Is it a B58 or E55. The 55 was approved for takeoff with 10 or 15 degrees of flap. Cant remember the figure but I remember it being the weapon of choice for tighter strips rather than the B58 "Tank". I rekon it may help you out of the strip a little better if you cvan use flaps.

The Dr. saysYou're not wrong and the reciprocal applies:

Where HELICOPTERS are concerned, getting IN is generally a bigger issue than getting out!

True that doc, didn't think before I typed.

I was an average pilot flying them many a moon ago and from memory, 700m was generally ok for RPT at MTOW nil wind on the B58 (285hp). May have been less, but can't remember. :ugh:

If the good book says it's good to go, then it must be ;)

The E55 was much better because the POH had performance for the first bit of flap. :ok:

Enjoy your flight Guptar :)

Healy

Did he say it was an E55?? no, so stick to what he asked :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Good point Gulf_dweller, couldn't agree more.

get a Retard vehicle....... no problem then on 260HP:ok:

The Dr has done the Ambo strip with average loads and its shorter.....albeit harder and dry.....

The secret is find somehere else and practice with the right weights and conditions.

If the approach and departure are good, this helps. Just be very sure first....and ask the neighbours if they mind you pulling the fence down!

or buy one of these..................

Thanks for all the replys.

Just wondering how much it would cost to pave the strip.

Lengthening is out of the question as it one end has a deep gorge with a river at the bottom and the other end is bounded by a public road. Another property just down the road could fit a 900m strip however.

The hardest part will be convincing the mrs that we really do NEED our own plane. The same as wee need that flash car and kick arse home theatre.

Sure hope she doesnt say nyet.

Bythewy, theres heaps of Baron vids on youtube of guys going in and out of 700-800m strips and they seem to have no trouble. One even shows a Citation 2 blasting out of a 2000 ft strip. thats about 800m...must have been very light.

I regularly take the Bonanza in and out of 600 m - it does that comfortably in most conditions.

The POH + 10-15% seems like a good idea for planning purposes.

Dr :8

That wouldn't be the strip just south of the Wilton parachute club, by any chance?

From memory anything under 900m at max weight was tight for departure. I also remember that there was a fairly lengthy period of time between the start of the rotation and when you had a bit of height and speed where I reckon you would have been pretty stuffed if you lost an engine. Mind you, there were always trees at the end of the strips I went into as well as it being hot with **** all wind. Best to talk to someone who is operating one into strips and is still current before having a row with the missus I reckon.

Sealing the strip?

About $55k for base stabilisation + 130k for 50mm bitumen seal or
250k or so for concrete.

Has anyone considered what an engine failure before takeoff would be like? Into the gorge or the public road if not done correctly. Worst case dead at the bottom of the gorge or (minor?) injuries on the road. Although from experience 58 would be the plane to get you out even with 1 engine out after takeoff.