soseg,

What do you mean post something constructive, I wanted this pointless crap to escalate and it has. So hence by getting a rise out of you the post was quite constructive. Thanks keep it up

Nkand

No worries, so if self funded why go to one of the most expensive schools around? The whole cos Qantas trains there? Seriously? Don't worry I still think you're awesome.

For the record though I do have a life. It Revolves mainly around PPRUNe and birching myself in the dark while listening to Bob Seger's Nightmoves. When I'm not doing that I drive around to all the local fast food restaurants and service stations in four bars on each shoulder, big shiny wings and Ray Bans hoping with all my heart that someone, anyone will ask if I'm a pile-it. I almost always get asked to leave immediately as I have a habit of forgetting to put on pants. I scare the children apparantely.

And I'm not a ******** I'm actually a f$#%@@ c$#@$#@$##$@. Just had to correct you on that one

j3

Now that is something to be jealous of! :} I prefer Rod Stewart in the darker moments though.

Wow I nearly got dragged into this but have edited my post its more fun just to read.

Hey try five gold bars each side as I find I get more attention and some scrabbled egg on your hat.

This thread is priceless!

I'll sit back on beer number 9 and let the good times role!

I'm gen Y (just) but sheeeesh there is a big gap between the upper and lower portions of it!

I bet your facebook profile has a picture of you with a headset strapped on too :ugh:

Haha right next to a status of: "Went first solo today... 737 is just around the corner" :cool:

Green goblin'

Couldn't agree more I would imagine that the face book picture would be stood in front of an aircraft they don't even fly yet just to let there friends put two and two together.:ok:

hahahhaha so true

Except it will be "A380 next, command just around the corner"

10 years later - "The douchbags are making me fly one of those little pesky 737s at least it still has a toilet though"

The problem with the flyaway is that most of them go on straight line routes, set the GPS, set TOCs and TODs, switch on the autopilot and then just log the hours. That's not experience, and doesn't improve VFR skills. Experience is sh!t weather, DR navving without a GPS, landing an aircraft at a high gross weight on an unprepared strip, making decisions for yourself. If it really adds to the discussion, I did some interstate flying and a lot of DR navs to strips other than YLTV. I nearly died once in a VFR into IMC incident, good experience to have that one.

You weren't, your mate/partner-in-crime nkand said that we must all be jealous of you. Dunno why.

My experience wasn't that bad, its just that my eyes were opened significantly after I left, and my field of experience widened. That's all i've ever said about it, and I don't think that's unreasonable. Oxford/Basair/RMIT whatever, the experiences are one-dimensional and too often unrealistic. If that makes me an idiot so be it. Oxford has some good people there, CFI is a top guy and as I said before, I know plenty of people there who I count as friends. But they see the deficiences as well.

A thread that is fun is never pointless :=

Pprune is so entertaining sometimes...

I go to Oxford, because of Feehelp. I dont have 80K lying around, sure they charge through the roof, but I dont have 50K either, so it is the best option for me.

I don't know anything about other flying schools, GA or whatever else outside of Oxford.

I dont think that using analog instruments over the PFD is harder, or easier, just different.

I know that there are no G1000's in the bush, and yes, it is a bit silly people getting too used nav moding everywhere, which is why I personally like to avoid it. I want to be the best pilot I can be, and watching a blip of a plane follow a line all by itself for an hour is not very beneficial, our 182s apparantly fly their own circuits :ugh:

Also, I for one know that it will be a very long road to the airline career which I am ultimately aiming for, and can see the ignorance of some others in my course. But who cares? Everyone will learn that it is not an easy road, and that shiny screens are not in every plane, whether they learn this sooner or later, really dosn't matter does it? The people that can adapt to new aircraft and new environments, step out of their confort zone and put in the hard yards will be the most successful, and yes, some of the people in my course will probably be unable to do this. While I praise the introduction of the feehelp option, it has attracted people who are very unmotivated, that just said to themselves "that'll do." At the same time, it has attracted people who are not rich, who are cherishing every moment at oxford, because it is giving them the opportunity they thought would never come their way.

At the moment, i'm just having fun, and enjoying the journey while its nice and easy. When it gets harder, which it will, i'll adapt accordingly. I am also enriching my life with as many alternates as possible, contingency plans, if you will. If I can't be a paid pilot straight after my course, I will not be working in Hungry Jacks as someone mentioned above, but will find a job which involves one of my other favourite activities, whilst continually searching for someone to let me fly their King air on my 200 hours.




...Only joking, I bet some of you 'experienced' guys got your head banger :ugh: all ready when you read that one. haha!


At the end of the day, it dos'nt matter what kind of pilot you are, we (all us males, sorry girls) are all having exactly the same conversations with pretty ladies all around the country, and continuously enjoying their reaction to the fact that you have the hottest job in the world.

Also, I think ppruners need to relax a bit. Who cares if people disagree with you? No need to get all up in their cyber grill. Just go with the flow man, go fly a plane or something :ok:

Oh, and while im at it, on my half yearly pprune login sesh, I might as well have a crack into cyber world: What the hell is wrong with a facebook picture of you flying around like maverick himself? It's a pretty cool thing to be doing IMO. If I didn't fly planes, and saw a facebook picture of someone flying one with a 'headset strapped on' as our friend above put it. I would think 'mad, that kid flys planes' Obviously, when i'm where you guys are, I will be thinking "hahaa, what an idiot, hes excited that he is in a plane, like I once was, because he is flying one for the first time, like I once did, and DEFINATELY thinks that he will be in a 747 tomorrow, like I did.' *starts crying*
Here is the harsh relality boys: I will deny your friend request! Bet you didnt see that one coming from your window, from which you cant even see the wings of your plane.

Why do the young fellas always resort to this pointless name calling?

You can call someone an idiot in far more colourful language which is fun to read. Unfortunately Pprune is not the place for these silly temper tantrums. It's like an emo war on MSN!

Don't end up like this guy!

Ok thanks everyone for your opinions,
Both sides of the argument are clear, each to their own.
I think we might wind her up, before these insults go to far.

Cheers

wwejosh, also... I doubt anyone else will post here answering your question for you as to how they go with looking for jobs... and I guess sometimes the internet isnt the best place. Judging by the age in your profile I am assuming you're looking at a flying school for next year probably after high school? The best thing to do would be to drive around to all the schools at moorabbin and talk to the guys there, get all the differeing opinons from as many people as you can. Some will be biased, some will be frank. I know I have come across guys who were brutally honest and I loved them for it. Judge for yourself and dont be afraid to question everything you hear - dont want to become complacent in any sort of aviation environment :) Remember you're the customer and its your money whether you pay it up front or whether it comes out of your pocket 10 years from now due to HECs

Don't stop now guys, I could do with another good laugh at a really really long pointless reply by an angry inexperienced pilot.

Soseg,

If your English and grammar are a sign of what it takes to get into oxford then the flying standard cannot be to high!

Ok, go play grammar nazi with me then, but I'm pretty sure there is two o's in "too" when using it in that context
1. this is an internet forum not a professional document
2. ever considered some people on this forum dont speak english as a first language or maybe have not lived in an english speaking country for a long time?
3. yeah I passed their english exam with flying colours...............................:ok:

My rule of thumb with to and too is if you can substitute also with to then it should become too.

cannot be 'also' high does not really sound that crash hot.

You're lucky I'm not saying worse after beer 12 on a lazy Friday RDO :ok:

Soseg,

As a keen fly fisherman you remind me of a Rainbow trout, they fight pretty hard and you can have allot of fun once they are hooked but react to almost any fly once they are primed.

You should be aiming to be more like a Brown trout they sit at the bottom and ignore any bad casting and only go for the correct fly selection but are highly prized once they decide to bight.

perfect time to check your PM's...

I haven't read the whole thread so pardon me if i repeat some point already made.

Where you train will have virtually nothing to do with who or when you get a job in GA, the regionals, the airlines or the space program. Having a degree might affect your chances with the space program but will not affect the other three.

Getting a job particularly in GA has everything to do with hitting the road, presenting yourself in a professional courteous manner and meeting as many of the correct operators that your budget will allow. Build your contacts follow your meetings up, be patient, reliable and have a "can do" attitude that is combined with a willingness to do a bloody good hard days work. Be persistent and do not give up. Finally the biggest thing of all: Right place Right time (this includes all categories of avaition and life!).

Put all the glossy brochures away, save your pennies and try and learn how to fly from your flying school nevermind what airlines/ga are going to bloody think.

Ok, back on topic now. So what's the rationale of doing most of the instrument rating in the single engine aircraft?

What's the percentage of airline cadets to private students?

TT,

The first answer is to save money and I don't know the second.

I was bored and am waiting for Mrs Hat to bring me my Green Chicken curry and beer so I skimmed thru the thread.

First of all you've got to do what you think is right. If that is going to an expensive school then do that.

I don't want to get into specifics of what works and why but what I can say from experience is this: If you get to know someone that is in the industry and has been thru ga then you can learn from their mistakes and cut some of the pain out. The times I didn't listen to MY mentors were the most costly mistakes I ever made.

There are people on this forum that can offer you the heads up on the real world. They might not say stuff you want to hear but it is worth listening to.

hey there...why is it done on a single? i ask myself that too, i guess its done so that oaa can offer a very attractive training package at a lower price, rather than doing seminole then kingair endorsements. What it does is gives you exposure to FMS systems, depressurisation and so on, just to add to the airline training experience. Its a good marketing tool if you think about it.

flypy,
im about 99% sure i know who you are mate, you were a failure at uni and during your flyin...oh and not to mention life as it is. Thus why you didnt complete the course, also consider those friends you know at oxford no more mate. next time i see you, ill have a few words to say if you dare show your face around us.

soseg, you should know a wind up when you see one, appreciate the support however.

Now now newagebird, play by the rules. I didn't insult you. I know who you are, and I know Oxford is very precious to you, so I'll try not to hurt your feelings any more.

But you are categorically wrong on every allegation, unfortunately, and I'm happy to sit down some time and have a chat about it if you really like :)

I have just one little request soseg... make room for me in the circuit pattern :ouch:

Wow I have to say I'm impressed.

Even my dog would of stopped chasing his tail by now :ugh:. I thought this was a 'professional' pilots forum.

ok nkand, I am seriously not trying to get a bite here but please enlighten me because I think you really need to assess the way and the speed your career is going to progress.

On getting to the airlines you said "there are many routes and that is one option" on GA.

Sounds like you think that you will get another option and GA is just a fallback.

Then you say in 2-3 years you will be in an airline and you havent even finished your training yet.

In case you haven't noticed the airlines have stopped recruitment and there is very little in the way of GA progression and this has filled numerous threads on pprune. Who is telling you that you will get into an airline so quick? Talking with some mates in the industry, I/we are resigned to the fact that we will be were we are for at least the next 12months before the economic conditions improve for us to move on. Some people are even saying another 2-3 years which scares me.

No, I am not a whinger. I love where I am in GA at the moment. No I am not jealous, I have a job which I spent many years looking for and hence I want to try and help newbies see the accurate picture. Right now is not the best time to be starting out in aviation. Ring around the operators up north and ask them how many pilots they are hiring and the answer will be not many, ask about newbies and they may not say it but why take a 200hr pilot with experience when there are guys leaving kunners and Broome with 600-700hrs.

If you sit down and really ask yourself these questions, you may see how some of the things that have been thrown around by people at MB are alot rosier than the picture I have painted.

In response to wwejosh, vary rarely will the school that you trained at have a direct impact on your prospects of employment. Glass cockpit, fine fly a glass cockpit but before you jump in a plane with the CP for your first job, get some time in a steam driven aircraft. As stated in all the other threads about finding that first job the factor that will get you a job is attitude. Don't have a bad one and be presentable.

Talk to as many pilots as you can. Learn their names. Try and get them to learn your name. Its all about networking, it means jobs find you because they have thrown your name in the hat.

Know your checks, know your regs.

Finally, don't sell yourself short and stand up for yourself. You are a professional pilot. There is a big difference between going the extra yard and working for free.

The biggest bit of advice I can give to these kids is to keep your mouths shut. You dont know who is reading this forum and you've given too much as to your identity away. All you need to do now is apply for work with someone you've been abusing and by the close of business your name will be mud in the industry. This industry is too small and full of too many blabbermouths to be abusing or running your mouth off about anything.

GFS/Oxford is fine. Its a rip off but its fine. You will get the same level of training where ever you go because you're going to be trained by the same kids on the same path as every other instructor. The biggest thing is finding a good instructor who works as hard at teaching his students as they do at learning. I would work for hours thinking of ways to teaching students who were struggling. In the end it would pay off, but at the same time I had a lot of instructors put students up for test and I'd fail them becuase they wouldn't meet my standards. I knew that I could send my students to any strip in the country and they would be (in the words of best instructor) FOOIINNEEEE!

Now this was at one of the cheapest flying schools in Australia, using average aircraft with next to no SOP's. All my CPL students now have jobs. The instructors that were there (who were all inbread) when I was training are now all in airlines. In short it doesnt matter where you go its as Mr. Hat said, how hard you're willing to work for it; which starts from Day 1 of your training.

And my final thought; I had so much to say but it all gives too much away. Lets just say that there are a lot of people you see every day laughing at you right now boys.

PS Which one of you owns the Z3? hahaha aahhhh good times.

Geez guys, well at least a few of you guys attempted to answer wwejosh's question (Mr. Hat, the air up there, eocvictim, soseg) :ok:

wwejosh, what they said is accurate. ya first gig will rely on presentation, professionalism, luck (right place at the right time), talking to as many people and making contacts, and the determination to put in the hard yards at the start. you will come across guys like flypy who do like to sell you a one sided argument just because they have had a bad experience along the way somewhere

Actually flypy, I know who you are, and I'd bet my money you are still a drop kick. Do you even have your CPL yet after all these years?

Just to add to the comments on making contacts. Facebook really is your friend. So many short links between all the top GA jobs on facebook, try to connect with all your instructors friends too. Who you know can skip you into a company over someone with 1000hours more than you.

Couldn't agree more with you EOC. Contacts are everything in aviation with such a tight knit community in many respects and they can be extremely useful for finding that first job!

As one wise man once said- it's not what you know it's who you know:)

Don't know about contacts getting you in over someone with 1000hrs more than you. Not for entry level pilots anyway. 1200 vs 250, I know who I'd choose. It would depend on the job type and the higher timed guys answers also. But 500hrs is a maybe for an entry level job if the boss really likes your mate, for similar hours contacts ARE the difference between getting a start and "sorry, call again next week".

And people, the "sorry, call again next week" line will get used like a broken record by the CP if you are just another pilot.

WOW!!!
 

Come on guys............... Why can't you all get along?:):):)

So when do we get to the part where we're retired...you know, finished.
Then what????
I could tell you but it may be painful!!
Anyone interested?:O

GADRIVR, I may regret asking this, but what happens when we retire??

Realistically whether you have been trained on glass cockpit trainers or normal GA Cessna 150 cockpit instrumentation, should make no difference to a prospective employer. An artificial horizon in a glass cockpit Seminole or Cessna 172 is just a pretty little coloured instrument which displays the same basic attitude information as 1976 Boeing 737 artificial horizon or a 1986 Cessna 210 artificial horizon. Same with the HSI. There is nothing mysterious about glass cockpits and you should have no trouble interpreting attitude or heading information with either presentation.

The air up there.....this is what you have to look forward to!:(

Chins up boys and girls...it's only for a little while longer. Then you get to go to an airline and say things like..."ah, GA days, when we REALLY used to fly"....or...."I miss the early mornings in Bankstown etc etc etc. Once there, you get divorced from your childhood sweetheart who has discovered that the industry essentially doesn't change, get remarried to a hot cart tart...and divorce again when she finds out you've been boffing her old work/flatmate (who was, lets face it; far hotter than the second wife any old way!!). You spend a few years in management, taking your leave on staff flights to Bangcock...oops Bangkok, for about ten years before taking a shine to that lovely little drinks waitress of dubious genetic beginnings in the "Wun yung boi" bar and bring her to begin a new married life in Australia, before...yep...you guessed it...you divorce again at the age of 65.
Seeing as all three wives have taken every cent you've ever earnt, you begin working as a crusty old sim instructor at the airline before being fired for "conduct unbecoming", move back to Bankstown where you work in Aerospace again for a time.
One day you don't turn up for work due to being detained at the YSSY perimeter fence...apparently you were yelling incomprehensible spit filled obsceneties at landing aircraft!!
Eventually you end up in the care of a limp wristed, twisted "Hellfire Club attending" palative care nurse who has his way with you for the final days of your life!
And all because you believed the brochure......sweet dreams!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/evil.gif

GADRIVR, the detail with which you described my future was amazing. Having seen my future now flash before my eyes, I have two options. Follow the vision you have described or I can run into the nearest flying school, rip all the glossy brochures from the wall, cover them in AvGas and light them up to save future generations fom our torment.

Then my medical will be revoked due to alledged pschological issues. I will be locked up in an institution, not for the arsonist actions previously mentioned, but for thinking that aviation would be a rewarding career. Upon being released after extensive electric shock therapy I begin a long and successful career as a stop-go man for the local council, earning more money than i did in GA anyway.

Living the dream lads.:ok::ok: