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Oxford Students

Old 9th Sep 2009, 07:47
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Oxford Students

Hello everyone,
I was just looking for some opinions on how the Oxford trained pilots go when looking for jobs in GA?
Do they have an equal chance against someone with the same experience that attended another school?
I ask this as most entry level jobs won't have the G1000 setup.
As well as their training goals are more orientated around airline SOPS.

Thanks
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 11:47
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You've used a lot of words there to say "I have no fkn idea" soseg...

wwejosh : I did a bit of training at Oxford/GFS and know quite a few of the current instructors, so I understand your dilemma.

It really comes down to what you think or hope you'll be doing afterwards. If you're going to be an instructor and hang around at Oxford or MFS or similar, its not a problem, and you'll be placed in good stead with your experience.

If you want to go bush, you'll need to spend some time on standard gauge aircraft. Operators will have their own preferences, but even for your own flying standards and safety, you'll need to get out of the ********-proof full size GPS and train your eyes where to look for stuff, especially moving from the tape style Airspeed and Altimeter readings to circular gauges.

The thing is, if you do want to go bush, you'll need to do some 206/210 time or similar anyway, which Oxford dont have, and which are very rarely G1000. Alternatively, if you do your multi endorsement at Oxford you'll be flying the Semen-holes which have steam gauges.


As for the SOPs question, I wouldn't worry about it. You'll probably use some sort of SOPs through your career even in GA, so some exposure to them is not negative.

Lastly I would say, just remember there is a big wide world outside the rather cushy Oxford environment, where you have to do more difficult things than land a leather-seated G1000 on a big wide tarmac runway, so if you get the chance, get some other experience.
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 11:51
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soseg: What makes you think they have such a good reputation? That's absolute crap. The only reputation they have outside of MB is for being able to screw their instructors and churn out students who are quite one-dimensional.

Ever since they brought in the G1000s, stopped all unsealed ops and had a million cadets going through the standard was always going to slip. Now hear me, they do churn out "safe" pilots, but probably not very highly skilled ones who have their abilities really tested.
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 12:22
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I've dealt with a number of former students of the said organisation. Most of them are top blokes and good workers, no different standards-wise to any other newbie I've encountered. The only negative I've seen in quite a few of them is that they're blinkered to the real world of GA and are too used to the rarified environment of brand new aeroplanes and having plenty of money around. I once had to interrupt a group of them discussing what sort of captains they were going to be to get them to move an aeroplane and none of them would lift a finger until booted up the arse.

So make the most of the training, enjoy the nice aeroplanes, but don't think that's how the rest of GA is - when you come out of the pilot factory you'll be a **** kicker just like we all are with 200hrs! Don't be afraid to get your hands dirty.
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 12:55
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Oxford doesn't allow unsealed ops? There's an indication right there.
 
Old 9th Sep 2009, 12:59
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G1000 glass cockpit hey. Well have a good look because it will the last time you see one for a very long time if you go charter as they dont last long in the bush, or operators cant afford them. Grab an aircraft with steam gauges and head off on a trip.

No gravel/grass/unprepared action, get some of that. If you have never seen a dirt strip your in for a rude shock if you head north and your in the desert, kimberley or arnhemland areas as most strips around there (even the bigger strips) are gravel, so a bit of airmanship (airperson for the ladies) on them will really impress the CP.

PS: If my boss gets a phone call from another newbie pilot that emphasises the glass cockpit training in brand new aircraft, I think he will cry. We dont operate glass cockpits, "how does that help us?" is what he asks.

So get some exposure to older sort of aircraft as everyone here is saying there is a slight difference between the analog and glass, pack your swag in your car and head off. And if you see a dirty flogged out 206/210 parked at a fuel bowser or tied down somewhere that you would not take your girlfriend for a holiday, then talk to the operator or the pilot, that may be your first job.

Best of luck, stick with it and you will get something.
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 13:05
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Oxford doesn't allow unsealed ops?
Don't want to get them pretty C172R wheel pants dirty do we?
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 13:40
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tmpffsch: When the new G1000s came in around early 2006 it was stopped. Pretty disappointing, but i guess they saved on props and figured that the overseas cadets didnt need the experience anyway. Apparently they do occasional T&Gs at YOLA if supervised by instructors but certainly not solo. I think a remote operator would find it pretty hard to employ a tarmac baby.

XanaduX: That'd be 172S mate! All the Rs are steam gauge and have gone to better homes.
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 22:29
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I find alot of the aforementioned pretty disturbing especially for the new pilot about to choose a course-wwejosh.


The thing about unsealed ops is true, however with permission from authority there can be exceptions made.

Oxford is trying to prepare pilots for the airlines- hence glass cockpits, King airs, 300 page sops etc and taking in so many cadets is just a pretty obvious example of this.

It is NOT your local flying school like some others at YMMB where youll just chill all day and come in whatever you want and fly when you want. There is a certain order of discipline at Oxford because after all this is what pilots are meant to have and what is meant to prepare them for a long career namely as an Airline Pilot!

Last edited by PPRuNeUser0163; 17th Oct 2009 at 22:03.
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 23:05
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You're my hero nkand

j3
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 23:12
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See what I mean?
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Old 9th Sep 2009, 23:49
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Nkand. If you think the kind of discipline the airlines are after will be instilled in you from doing a course at oxford, rather than working your butt off in GA for 5 years, you're in for a rude shock.
Good luck with that.
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Old 10th Sep 2009, 02:03
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I have wondered, how, the past few years, the large percentage of Oxford students who DON'T end up getting a job straight away in airlines, manage to survive out in the real world, operating in non-glass cockpit aircraft, operating from skinny little dirt/gravel strips etc etc, with no ADF, when this has been all they have known since their first hour of flying training?

I know a few oxford students, and was gobsmacked to see how much they rely on the moving map displays and other tech wizadry in the cockpit when I backseated a nav with one student a few months ago. Getting thrown into an old steam driven C210 with basic avionics and not much else must be quite a shock to some of them heading north to get hours!
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Old 10th Sep 2009, 03:21
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Nkand, a couple of things.

How many of your mates are now in the airlines?
How many have acceptance and start dates with the airlines?
How many of your mates are now in GA?
How many are unemlpoyed?

You have just proved your ignorance in the world of aviation. I don't intend to be harsh, but sit back and think about it. There are guys with many thousands of hours out there applying to airlines, with thousands of hours COMMAND, in aircraft that aren't always shiny. Learning airline SOP's is not going to be hard for them.

From my mates in the airlines the cadets are not despised, but certainly not looked upon with envy by captains and FO's that have done the GA or military route. The stories I heard about Qlink and its trainee's with 250-300hrs were downright scary.

What I'm saying is you won't be prepared for airline from the school your at or any school really. I am not saying that Oxford is a bad school, but to imply that you will be prepared for an airline gig when you finish it with 200hrs in a 172, please.
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Old 10th Sep 2009, 03:26
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All this preparing you for the airlines rubbish that flying schools are jamming down naive students throats these days is just marketing crap and totally inappropriate for the Australian and NZ aviation environment where there is a very strong focus on working in GA before moving into the airlines.

Unlike the UK and rest of the world where it is not uncommon for fresh cpls to jump straight into a jet, down under here 95% of people will go through the GA ranks. This may change in the future but is still a long long way off.

The reality is the first few years of your career you will be landing on other than sealed strips and will usually be flying old aircraft (ok there are the odd operator with new airvans etc) with steam driven gauges, You will be filling your own aircraft out of drums and bowsers, you will be filling out your own MRs and keeping track of your own Flight and Duty times, you will be washing planes and mopping up spew. Why don't flying schools teach this stuff anymore as this is what will happen in the real world. Not walking about posing in uniforms with a shoulder full of ****** bars telling all who will listen how easy it is to become an airline pilot.

Unless you have the ability to up stumps and move over seas all you blokes and blokeets out there will be in for a real shock once you have a nice freshly printed licence in your hands.

As for the original question posted You will find that that a licence is a licence at the end of the day and no one really cares if you flew glass or steam but your future employer will be expecting you to be able to handle yourself or adapt quickly to unfamiliar aircraft and strips. My advice is to get out of your comfort zone and get familiar with other aircraft ie 206/210 and find an instructor who will show you the in's and outs of a real operational environment.
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Old 10th Sep 2009, 08:19
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to the above posters,

my point wasnt to say that I or indeed any of my fellow pilots would jump with 200 hrs in a 172 into the RHS of a 737. That stuff happens in India

My point is that Oxford prepares you for the future possibility of a jet job/airline pilot career. Alot of graduates have subsequently gotten cadetships and traineeships and some are in GA. It really depends- to say though that this is the wrong way to train as many above have suggested is totally absurbed and you can clearly tell the whingers above- i did GA this, that- there are many routes and that is one option.. not THE only option!
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Old 10th Sep 2009, 08:50
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I think you will find myself and those above speak from experience. Take the advice if you like or ignore it no skin off my nose.
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Old 10th Sep 2009, 09:02
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Out of interest nkand....how does a flying school prepare you for an airline career? What do they do that is SO different to any other flying school?
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Old 10th Sep 2009, 09:12
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Exactly Tempo It is all just marketing BS that flying schools bleat out all the time not just Oxford just about all of them. That is why Hungry Jacks is usually the next job for these guys that have gone out into the real world with eyes wide shut after being feed all this airline crap from flying schools.
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Old 10th Sep 2009, 09:23
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Geez you blokes are harsh!!!!
Nkand.....generally speaking I've been kinda impressed with the product thats been turned out by GFS/Oxford over the last few years. Standards and procedure driven students can't be all bad!
I'm not that sure that flying a glass cockpit over steam driven is an advantage or disadvantage. You're flying VFR in your commercial training so you really shouldn't be looking at the dials for more than 5% of the time.
Unless you jag yourself an airline job with a couple of hundred hours (HIGHLY unlikely)......sorry mate , it's off to GA and all the fun that it entails!!!.
GFS/Oxford wouldn't prepare you any better than any other "reputable" school for an airline job so I'd be on this forum, ringing mates in GA, going for a drive around the traps to try for your first GA job now....not when you're finished.

"As for the original question posted You will find that that a licence is a licence at the end of the day and no one really cares if you flew glass or steam but your future employer will be expecting you to be able to handle yourself or adapt quickly to unfamiliar aircraft and strips. My advice is to get out of your comfort zone and get familiar with other aircraft ie 206/210 and find an instructor who will show you the in's and outs of a real operational enviroment"
Probably the best advice given here I think.
Good luck....any further questions., PM me
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