Remoak, waffle on as much as you like. Fact remains that the only reason Australian companies set up shop in New Zealand is because they know Kiwis will work for less. Thats it in a nutshell, you guys will work for less. And if it means taking work off Australian pilots, you guys will not hesitate to do it.

Must agree with H1, there is no place for infantile Xenophobic posts on PPRuNe. :=

pilots and baristas???
 

are you guys serious or what, you are actually comparing your qualification to a barista, wake up to yourselves, have some self respect and grow some balls....NFI guys, seriously.... if thats what you think you are worth then do us all a favour and make some cappacinos, extra froth thanks.... f%*&^# knobs:ugh::ugh::ugh:

What is the AFAP doing???
 

I think it is obvious to all of us that Jetstar is manouvering to move its pilot base offshore. With the TTMRA the Australian pilots are a rubber-stamp away from a Kiwi ATPL and with the Open Skies agreement, all Australian domestic flying can be operated from Christchurch.

When the National Farmers Federation and Patricks conspired with the Howard government to "restructure" the workforce, did the MUA sit quietly?

If the NSW Government started recruiting teachers and nurses from New Zealand and employing them on NZ terms and conditions, would the Teacher's Federation or the Nurse's Federation sit quietly?

Coal miners are very cheap in India. I wonder if the CFMEU would mind if XStrata or BHP or Rio Tinto offered fly in-fly out from a Mumbai base? (Must be an Australian Citizen to work in Australia but position is based in Mumbai and on Indian Terms and Conditions! :ugh: )

All the AFAP has done so far is send a memo to JETSTAR pilots telling them that it is all very worrying and that they shouldn't resign from J* Aus to go to J* NZ. Good thinking, Captains Obvious! :D

In these difficult times surely to god the AFAP would be able to point out to the LABOR government that J* is moving to base its workforce OFFSHORE, meaning a loss of Australian jobs and a loss to the Australian economy? Despite the blue-collar salaries offered :* these are white-collar professional jobs that WILL be moved offshore.

The AFAP needs to start applying political pressure and public relations pressure NOW to start turning public opinion in our favour.

Lawrie, Eric - you guys have got to stop living 20 years in the past and start dealing with the media-driven world we live in today. You failed to capitalise on the pilot shortage for PR leverage - the best opportunity we have EVER had to win broad-scale improvement in T&Cs and inform the general public that pilots are earning less than the average salary in this country.

Remoak is spot-on when he says nobody gives a stuff what pilots are paid... that's because our elected representatives have failed to represent us.

With all these Indian pilots training in Australia over the last 5 years and going back to a shrinking Indian economy, holding Australian CPLs... guess what's next? :ooh:

Well said Snatch!

And puma pants, scavengers is probably a bit harsh. I prefer to think of the how the Kiwis are to Australia as what the Mexicans are to the USA. Only difference is the way we open the doors to those coming from across the ditch and the US do everything to keep them out.

I do love this "I am Australian, hear me roar!" mentality from our friends across the ditch...No wonder the JAFA tag gets added to you outside the South West Pacific!

Yet when you are of shore..."Kiwi's, Aussies, yeah we are all cut from the same cloth"

At the moment, as much as I hate to say it a job is a job, and one flying an aeroplane, when qualified to do so, beats stacking the supermarket shelves any day...That you can quote me on!

To those who are looking at Jetstar, good luck, ignore the bitter and twisted "prats" on here...

When things pick up again, move on to brighter pastures should you so desire!

And to those who are going to have a go at me, feel free, but you gotta start somewhere, and an opportunity is an opportunity, even if it isn't as good financilly as it should be!

It is so easy to be in that "glass house" and through stones, pity when they make like a Bommerang, and come back and hit you!

Oh and by the way, how many Aussies hold pilot jobs in NZed, when there are suitably qualified drivers here? And how many recipricating jobs in Australia?

Sorry, and we KIWI's are the "SCABS"?

GET OVER YOURSELVES!

My thoughts exactly. Well put floaty.:ok:

Almost every company on the planet is only there to make a profit. Either for the owners or their share holders. To that end they will do whatever they can (especially in a competitive sector or as now in a recession) to minimise costs. Therefore if the Government in power will allow them to set up offshore or import labour, they will do it.
So rather than engaging in puerile attacks on the” individual worker”, perhaps you should look closer to home at those you voted into power to run the economy?

Have heard the actual money is around 160ish kiwi!!! About 120 or so base, and then flight pay . With the 75 hrs or so you will be rostered, should be around 160 p/a. 5 weeks leave, and that 1 or 2 % kiwi super I believe.

Way, way, way higher than the average wage ($38,400 or so NZD).
It's higher than a GP and most hospital types.
Higher than teachers and other salaried, qualified professionals.
Yet still lower than a MP (or similar to it).

What a shame the Profession has come to this.

Jetstar NZ is a budget outfit, offering budget t&c's, budget customer service, and a budget management mindset. Take it if you are desperate for a drive, or leave it.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

20,000 Kiwis move to Australia every year. And you Kiwis have the audacity to say Australians took Kiwi jobs at Jetconnect. Gee whiz you guys are a tad delusional. Still, I guess when you grow up in NZ and see a big beautifull country that has everything going for it 3 hrs west of NZ, it all makes sense.

Get over yourselves, get the chip off your shoulder and grow up. No wonder Kiwi women hate kiwi men, the agro in palpable!!

Someone has to do the work over there. :)

Seriously tho Sam I think you need to look pretty close to home when you say Jetstar has been slowly chipping away at the Qantas terms and conditions in OZ for a year or two now. It is pretty obvious what their game plan is in OZ - lower the pay and conditions of the Qantas group.

They have been doing that quite successfully with Australian pilots, now they plan to take it a step further with their New Zealand operation. Wages here not just in aviation are quite a bit behind what they are in OZ and have been for many years.

By the way all Kiwis know Australia is big but I don't think they all see it as beautiful.

No, we see what is basically an intolerably hot desert, full of things that want to bite and kill you. And then there are the crocs, box jellyfish, snakes, scorpions... no wonder the poms used it as a convict repository. Only country in the world you need a criminal record to get into... :E

I doubt that the crews of Ryanair, Easyjet, or Southwest would agree with you. All budget airlines - in fact, the pioneers of budget airline operation... and all with superb training departments and very high standards. Compare that to Qantas and their fake engineers and constant incidents... and then look at the accident records of the "budget" carriers. When you have finished doing that, have a look at their company returns and see who is making the most money... and thus ensuring the futures of their staff.

Just because an airline is "low cost", doesn't mean that all the stuff that impinges on the flight crew is below standard. We all know what to expect when we sign up, if you want legacy carrier mollycoddling, don't join.

Nice one Mr Tossa,
Compare shearing and rural Oz to the airline industry...if ever there was a valid comparison to make..you've made it..NOT! :D

What you name calling, intellectually disadvantaged, oxygen stealing numpties fail to understand (because you are either too ignorant or unwilling to accept) is that Jetstar will do what they like, how they like, when they like...within the letter of the law.
If those of you are foolish enough to believe that labelling a few New Zealanders in a derogatory fashion will further your cause then good luck to you...you'll certainly need it!
The rest of us are intelligent enough to spot a small minded bigot when we see one.


Transition Layer..
I take it mate you've been to Border in the last 6 months? and spoken to the locals on both sides? (I have BTW..and its the opposite to what you THINK you know)

P.S. I've just joined in the name calling..to keep in the spirit of the Tossa who started it :hmm:

OK - you have obviously added up all the crashes and incidents around the world - so where are your statistics?

You are making very bold claims and wild statements without proof. Show us your proof. You will make a convincing argument if you can prove what you are saying instead of just claiming things and telling us it is fact. For example - superb training departments and very high standards.....have you worked in their safety department or training department? Do you have inside information that you would like to share? Have you been involved in their training or being a recipient of their training system?

Or is what you are writing your perception?

If you want to argue convincingly - provide fact to back up what you are trying to communicate.

Here you go Muff.....

What's the difference between Australia and a pot of yoghurt?

If you leave the lid off a pot of yoghurt, it will eventually develop a culture


Or perhaps...

Why do so many Australian men divorce their wives?

They like to know there's a ball and chain they can get rid of

remoak

And the same way "low cost" should not imply low standards, low cost should not equal low pay! Southwest being the perfect example!!!

Muff Hunter-----LMFAO....................................................... .......oh man you guys are hilarious :ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok: