TAA Cessna 180's in PNG
 

Hi All,

I recently spent a few hours at the TAA Museum at Airport West in VIC. If you haven't been there, you must. Not only does it have TAA but also Australian, Ansett and a bit of QF (well it is the QF building!).

I saw a little model of a Cessna 180 that was used by the Sunbird services in PNG. Does anyone have any further information regarding this? How many did they use, reasons, when etc? Would anyone have any pictures?

The chaps there really didn't know much about them.

Thanks in advance
CRN

Cr,
like this? Actually a C185 not 180.

cheers,
185.
Courtesy John Hopton collection.
http://www.skywagons.org/gallery/alb..._004.sized.jpg
http://www.skywagons.org/gallery/alb.../sbu.sized.jpg

Thanks 185SW,

The display model had Cessna 180 and 182 as labels. Thanks for clearing it up and thanks for the pictures and info!!

I should imagine that there would be some wonderful characters from the PNG thread, who could name some of the people in these photos.

185.

My father used to fly those in PNG, he'll be along later to try to answer your questions.

Thanks all,
Look forward to all the responses.

Apart from a bigger donk, what is the difference between a 180 and 185? I thought they were pretty much the same machine with more power in the 185.
Thanks

I wouldn't bet my left nut on it (or the right one for that matter) but my recollection is that you are correct - the C180 and the C185 share the same airframe. The 180 I used to fly had the same engine as the C182 (230 hp ?) while the C185s had 285 and 300 hp IO520s.

Dr :8

I seriously doubt TAA ever had C180s in PNG but 18 Wheeler's dad will remember.

In the late '50's when C170s and C180s were operated in PNG, TAA were not operating in PNG, only Qantas and Ansett. When TAA arrived, the C170s/C180s had all but gone, to be replaced with C185s and later C206 and C336.

I'm guessing here but I suspect this may be the C185 that Richard dropped into the lake in the island volcano (name alludes me), recovered and rebuilt the aircraft and I think still has it?

The Sunbird Services .... my introduction to PNG was traveling on the Sunbird Catalina from Port Morbid to Samarai. I heard that Catalina is flying again in New Zealand?

SBU
 

Torres, FLZ A C185F was Richard's effort at Long Island (which he subsequently recovered but never flew again) Originally FLZ was Catholic Mission at Wewak. Carl Wagels tore a leg out of it departing Pumacos (near Wapenamunda) and gutsed it onto Goroka for TAL to repair.Richard now flies MJL which be bought new in the 80's. SBU was "Fatty" Hawkin's steed in the 60's and it was in this aircraft he was labelled Capt Jetstream due to short flight times doing Daru fish-runs!, I recall seeing parts from SBU in Denis' Goroka hangar in early 70's after an accident, so it probably contributed to SE?.If I remember correctlly, Fatty flew the King Ranch 185 KRD in Aust. prior to joining TAA. This aircraft also contributed to a SE?

Your left nut is safe.However,on the C180 the fairing in front of the fin was much lower.

Will have a gander in th old log book rings a bit of a bell
Was in Lae when Richard took the 185 for a swim in Long Island lake
Bloody lucky man.
Fattys mount in those days was the SeaBee resplendent in TAA(generously donated?) paint job :}

Torres

The Sunbird Catalina is in NZ under restoration by the RNZAF Museum at Wigram. It will be static display only however (but I don't have a problem with that).

Didn't the C185 have an extra window as well?

Rgds

Um, with all due respect to the good old FTDK's wot'nots, I think you'll find that the C185 is slightly stretched compared to the C180.

Chuck will sort it when he appears.

G'day ;)

I worked for a GA charter company in Lae in 1967 - '68 and I remember well the TAA Sunbird C185 operating out of there. I was also standing near the side of old Runway 14 at Lae in '68 when the last ANSETT-ANA electra departed and did a high speed run down the runway and (what appeared to be) an almost vertical climb at about 300KTS off the end of the runway.

Will leave it to Chuckles

The 180/185 airframes are essentially the same from the introduction of the 185 (1961) and the 180G (3rd window).

180 airfarmes from 1953 till the introduction of the 180G, were pretty much where the early 182 (1956) through 182B (1959) came from.

The fuselage length in the 3 window models 180/185, are the same.

The 185 is constructed with larger and closer pitched rivets in the front doorpost area and wingspar compared to the 180. It also has thicker wingstruts(same size as the C206).

The 185's vertical fin dorsal area is larger than the 180's except later C180's with the Seaplane kit(which share the 185's vert fin).

185's had 260hp IO-470-F till the 185E model about 1966, after which the IO-520-D (285/300hp) was standard.
I use to own SIA which was sn 427, 2 numbers earlier than SBU.

TAA Cessna's
 

If I remember correctly, TAA only had the one C185 in TPNG as a "company hack" They had previously operated single Otters (Earl Partridge & Co) commercially, but I don't know if the C185 did much? Ansett MAL however got into lighties in a big way much to Denis' pleasure 7 years on.

OT
C180 v 185 the former being a much sweeter hairyplane IMHO :rolleyes:

Im SURE the Sunbird 185 was on the mural painted on the stairwell wall of the Bird of Paralyse GKA ..um ...Dennis Faithful?

Tin,
Haven't flown any early 180's, but the early 185 is certainly nicer to fly than the one I have now (1979 model).

185.

Woulda been great if they put sticks in em ala Birdog ...and overhead trim

*yeah dream on tin*

Thanks for all your responses Gents. Appreciated.

The 180 was a nicer aeroplane to fly than the 185. It cruised nicely at 144kts and could land on short strips. I remember doing an endorsement with Colin Pay and we did three landings along the strip, and then a circuit and another three ladnigs.

They also maged to squeeze six seats in the 185, and a little baggage compartment way down the back.

Isn't it nice for a change to read a thread where there is a bit of enjoyable reminiscing instead of most of the crap that goes on here. I remember as a kid in Madang in the 1950's riding my bike out to "ples balus" and there was generally about 15 or so QANTAS and MAL DC-3's, a couple of Gibbes Sepik Airways JU-52's and Norsemans, and assorted Dragon rapides, tigermoths etc that belonged to Madang Airservices (MAS), and TAL around. I remember going to the first Goroka show in a JU-52 in about 1956 or so.

Bedder believeit you were twice blessed growing up in Madang in the 50's matey :ok:
They probably still had Jap soldiers boarding out at Huxleys pub then. :hmm:

I was fortunate to fly the 180 and the 185 in the early 60's. :ok::ok: I have never been able to decide which I preferred. The 180 was more ' de luxe" with the interior and the 185a was more of a utility a/c. When empty the 185 was a great performer all round and was a great load carrier to boot.

We ( Flinders Island Airlines) used to carry up to 1200 lb of newspapers in the 185 and from memory was the only lighty at that time that would carry its own weight in payload.

They were so superior to any other lighty that they were in a class of their own!!

Emeritus.

The 185 is certainly a load hauler. A typical load in the PNG highlands was 500kg/1100lbs plus pilot/40usg fuel...off short strips in density altitudes between 6 and 10000'.

http://www.fototime.com/{A263B3C8-BF...D}/picture.JPG

Until it was sold recently I still flew a mates 1956 C180 a few times a year in the UK. It now resides near Wanaka. You can see where Cessna got the 182 from...they just moved the main gear back and bolted a nosewheel on a 180. Never really worked out why:hmm:

http://www.fototime.com/{A1B67185-3D...6}/picture.JPG

Happily a Kiwi mate has recently finished restoring his early model C185 which I have been invited to fly...it lives at Wanaka.

http://www.fototime.com/{AAF7337D-34...8}/picture.JPG

Looking forward to flying a 185 the way they were meant to be flown again...in and out of really silly places.

This is the 1963 model I owned in PNG in the early 90s...taken outside the Dero in Moresby.

http://www.fototime.com/{69C16792-E0...7}/picture.JPG

I never really developed a preference although I have vastly more hours in 185s than 180s. The closest I ever got to describing the difference between the two, and this is purely subjective, was that the 185 was more 'hairy chested' than the 180. The 180 just seems a more 'gentle' aeroplane.

I don't know if they are the right words.

Another mate is very keen to buy a 195...now I am REALLY looking forward to that...I have in fact recently instructed him to pull his fecking finger out:ok::}

Ut..oh.. who started a 185 thread? :hmm:

Yer mates CGG in working guise in the 60,s Chuckles
Peter Meeks mount
Note the litte sheep/cow ****zen defllectors and hopper mirror on the strut
You said he still got the roof trim wheel?

http://www.airport-data.com/images/a...183/183448.jpg

Chimbu
If you go to GOOGLE search and then "Cessna 180", and then "Wikkipedia", there is another photo of G-BTSM. It has a 3 bladed prop I see, which if I remember correctly was fairly common on PNG 185's in the 1960's. I don't know how to transpose the pic from Wikki to here!

I regret selling G-BTSM (Ex P2-DEQ, ex VH-DEQ, VH-DEC) already.!! It should be in Port Chalmers, Dunedin by now. I am currently in Oshkosh and saw the ex Utility Grand Champion for sale at $180,000 US.!! I musta sold mine cheap.!!
Never mind Chuckles, I am working on another aircraft we can fly on layovers.
Hopefully by your next trip. I will never have another aircraft like the 180 to fly. Challenging....yes, but a joy to fly. Sob Sob.

I agree Bushy, the 180 always seemed a more balanced aircraft to fly (and even looked better in my opinion) than any of the 185's I flew.

However, I don't think I ever saw 144 out of them on cruise.
I flew a 185 with a gaggle of 180's and 185's during the Round Australia Air race in 88 and all of us were within a knot of each other at about 138 knots TAS as I remember. (All of us had everything up against the firewall)
Interestingly, there was one very late model 185 with the IO520 that was up there with all the 210's in the race and as I remember, he won his class.

Both fantastic aircraft however. Loved either much more than the 182's

Chuckles wants Spitfire to play with Taily.

But would settle for a Mustang.:}

Yes tin he still has the roof trim mod from its days top dressing.

http://www.fototime.com/{44654CE2-DE...E}/picture.JPG

She is somewhat more coddled in her old age. CGG now and her proud owner.

http://www.fototime.com/{DBBC198A-32...5}/picture.JPG

What better subject for a thread than the might C185.

There are a stack of G-BTSM piccies on the net. Spotters are very common in the UK.

JetPhotos.Net Aviation Photos: G-BTSM

Here is how she ended her days in PNG with the fella Taildragger bought her from at the controls. The recovery from the western province and subsequent shipping to the UK and restoration is a story I'll leave for Taily to tell. P2-DEQ/G-BTSM was the very first aircraft I flew in PNG with the then (pictured) owner, a top fella who was the DPI Vet and a keen PPL, on about day three in the country while I was studying for my air leg exam and staying with him in Moresby. We went out to the low level training area WNW from Moresby and chased locals...like trying to herd cats but a **** of a lot of fun.:E

http://www.fototime.com/{A07DDA4F-8F...D}/picture.JPG

Taily I'll be in London this coming Wed/Thurs and again in the last half of the month if you're back from Oshkosh. We may need to go out to White Waltham and drink that terrible warm piss the Poms call 'beer'...Taily is a Scot so I am not insulting him:E

Chimbu, P2-AWM you must have bought from the Wild family. A bit of trivia- It was the first aircraft in the Milne Bay Air Fleet, closely followed by the Buccaneer which was sunk in Milne Bay! AWM did some work for Elomair for a while as well flown by the late John Wild junior. More trivia. MBA/Airlines PNG would never be if it were not for John Wild jr and AWM.

No I bought her from the Cane farmer in Innisfail that the Wild family sold her too. But yes I do know her history...started her life brand new in PNG with Anglican World Mission in the early 60s. Ended her life in a valley in the Owen Stanley ranges with one of Ray Hanna's nephews at the controls. Not nearly as good a pilot as his uncle and not nearly as good as he thought he was. I had loaned her to his boss while his 185, P2-BAF, was in for an annual. It was the young blokes 3rd or 4th day in PNG.

BAF was my first PNG command. She was owned by Simbu Aviation when I started there in the mid 80s. A year or so after Hanna Jnr died in AWM, BAF was crashed in Chimbu Prov with Hanna junior's boss at the controls...fatally.

John Wild Jnr was a good friend...and yes without him and P2-AWM Airlines of PNG would not exist. MBA kindly agreed to maintain AWM for me when I owned her...the only outside work their engineers were allowed to do from memory. Even old John Snr used to give her an affectionate pat when he walked past her in the hangar.

Love the piccy of Sopu, Chuckles.:ok: Brings back quite a few memories!:uhoh:

My Boss for a time as well. A good Man!

God rest his soul.:{:{:{:{

144kts
 

Zeebee
The 180 that I flew had the Robertson stol mods on it, and a seaplane propellerwhich I believe is a bit longer than the normal one. (my wife could always tell the sound of this aircraft when I flew over our house.) I spent lots of time in it over about a two year period, doing low level survey, and generally commuting. I often crossed the country in it. I expected to get 144 kts TAS on cruise, and generally did.

VH-SBU

Began flying for STOL on 4th March 1967, and the very 1st 185 I touched was SBU. My 1st trip was being checked on the SE coastal route - Paili,Cape Rodney,Amazon Bay,Cloudy Bay,Mamai and Baibara by Phil Chittock. The highlight was the rough beach front track which served as Baibara Intl.

Subsequently clocked up lots of time on SBU. KRD, STP, CMO, DJU were also with STOL thru 67-68.

By comparison with PNE, a C180 owned by Patair, which we used to fly occasionally to help out... the old hardworked 185's were absolute dogs.

180's the far nicer to fly, especially the earlier 'shark-nose' models, (53-57?), which were a bit faster than the later 'big-chin' models. Once the fuselage was made larger, a la 185, the 180 and 185 seemed alike, HP aside.

ah, memories from a long time ago !

Bushy

Did your 180 have spats ? I believe they added 5 knots or so.

There was one 180 in Whyalla VH-RFF that was a good 10 knots faster than it's two sister ships RFD and RFE. No one could explain why.

A 180 with spats?
 

Only a girl would fly a 180/185 with spats!

Real 185's have pods too.

It was built on Tuesday that's why.

Like my much beloved DHC6-200 RDB when I was based in Wau. Lighter on the controls than every other -200 (and RDB was a converted ex TAA -100) flew straighter, faster, climbed damn near as well as a -300. EVERYBODY loved that aeroplane... well BJ and I did...most of the guys just preferred the 300 series because they climbed to LSALT better without really appreciating RDBs beautiful handling and better reverse thrust when it came to doing what we were there to do...haul stupid loads out of silly places VFR in mountain valleys. I pulled 2000kgs out of Heiweni in RDB...wouldn't have tried THAT in any other -200.

Never tried it again in RDB now I think on it:uhoh:

The only thing we, BJ and me, could come up with was she was built on Tuesday and RDA/C/D/E/F/G etc were built on Friday after lunch.

:ok:

Man it took me YEARS to stop thinking a 185 without a pod looked REALLY strange.:eek:

A spats just look :suspect: no matter which way you look at them. I mean...if you can't stand on the tyre you'd just stand there with the dip stick in your hand :confused: