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Pilots with history of recreational drug use.Do I stand a chance?
Hello
I've realised that I really want to be a Pilot and that there's nothing else I'd imagen doing but there's a slight problem I'm worried about.I've been using extacy and speed recreationally on the weekends for a year or so and haven't touched it for over 2months now.The only excuse I have is that I was young and dumb.My parents would be ready to sponsor my training as long as they see that I'm commited.They obviously aren't aware of my past drug use and there's no need for them to.I want to become and airline Pilot and I am ready to put in 100%.I've told my GP about my drug use, so will that come up on my medical when applying to airlines if I don't mention it? I did my year 12 with satisfactory results but I don't posses the Qantas maths requirement. thank you |
I think drug use may be the least of your problems.
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Sorry, have no idea what the prospects are, but whatever happens, I urge you not to consider "not mentioning it". You are legally required to declare it during the medical, and failure to do so/later discovery of same could land you in deep doo-doos.
I don't imagine a history of drug use would necessarily disqualify a candidate, (it might), but for your own protection (not to mention that of any passengers you may be responsible for in the future) it needs to be declared. Maybe not to a future employer - each will no doubt have rules regarding this - but definitely to the medical/regulatory authorities. |
Admitting to recreational drug use will disqualify you from holding a medical at the first instance - about 10 years ago one of my students admitted to smoking a bit of pot on the weekends :=
Mind you, admitting to illegal activity during an interview with a government medical officer could be viewed as failing the underlying IQ test anyway :rolleyes: I am assuming you have never been caught in posession and that there is no official record of your past silliness. I won't encourage you to lie in your aircrew medical but I think the question you will be asked is "Have you, since your last medical or in the last 12 months, used any illicit drug or narcotic?" See if you can go 12 months without - perhaps then 1/. you know you have the self-discipline required; 2/. you will have the clear head required for the very intensive (and expensive) training and 3/. you can answer the question truthfully. Best of luck. |
I don't believe I'm reading this. :ugh::ugh::ugh:
The pilot of the PA32 that killed a NZ family and American tourist probably only considered himself a "weekend" or "recreational" user of canabis too. I don't know if it is permitted under privacy laws or other civil liberties provisions but the sooner an employer has the right to send someone after establishing probable cause, to the local clinic for a p1ss test the better. |
I might be about to get a pasting for this....but what the heck, :uhoh:
There might be a pilot shortage......but they are not that short of em! What sort of fool were you, and now you think all is good and into an airline job now. There are probably hundreds of applications on desks and the airlines have picked through them, and I hate to say it but maybe they are not prepared to scrape the barrel any deeper. I suggest you go five years or so clean and see if you can forget you ever did it. I have seen the effects "Speed" has on its users and it took several years for the effects (mentally) to go away, from what I understand Ecstasy does permanent damage. In my opinion get your sh!t together and stay that way for a while yet before you consider such a move. And maybe do something constructive with your newly gained knowledge and educate all those around you about how stupid it was and how much you realise now what life is really about. I am glad you have turned the corner, so help some of your friends out too! Ohh and all the supplier you know, get their details and take them to the cops, get em roasted so they can't do it any more. I wish you well, even though it sounds a bit harsh above, just don't do that sh!t again! J:ok: |
So you've been off the gear for 2 months. Well wacky do to you.
You need to see if you can stay of it for 2 years - if only to prove to yourself that you can do it.:= At this stage of the game I wouldn't let you mow my yard |
There is NO ROOM for JUNKIES in the aviation industry. And before anyone starts harping on about his "use" being "recreational", drugs are drugs. Don't waste your time. Don't waste possiblie employers time. Get a job in Woolies or Coles. We don't need your sort with the lives of the traveling public in your hands.
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I am not condoning drug use , But I guess it is ok for pilots to have a history of being alcholics! QF having their own alcho anon!
Cast the first stone if you havent been a bit dusty after an overnight! He is young by the sound of it, dont tell them and see if you stay clean for the training which will take you the best part of a year anyway. Then decide. |
jaba you have every right to say such things & most agree as we can see. Ok here's a guy who is 19 & posted twice here. Take a look at the scenario a bit here. Why on earth would you want to 'hang' yourself all over again (first hanging was the day he started this death spiral) here in a public forum where pilots, employers & god knows who else is ready to judge, sentence & hang someone for almost anything?:bored: Somebody in command of anything never lone an A/C ought not to be anywhere near machinery when on or have been in the past mind altering drugs but they are sadly.
So 'cetnik' as you can see/read I believe it best at yr age to go away from this industry & prove to yourself first that yr worthy to hold a job in our field of expertese. Then when you know yourself that your back to normal(whatever that is anyway!) maybe just maybe you could seek a pvt license & take it from there. Yr subject matter (if it is in fact real) is a very touchy subject & airing it here wasn't a smart move. You are obvioulsy not alone many youngsters would be heading down a path of destruction but do you really think that 2 months proves much?. NO. come back here much latter, now isn't the time CW |
LSD, if taken even once, permanently disqualifies you from flying due to the risk of a flash back.
No respectable airline will knowingly employ a former drug user in a sensitive position such as air crew. Can you imagine the publicity if the press found out ? The legal implications in the event of an accident would be unimaginable. Also the drug culture doesn't go well with customs and international aircrew. There is the suspicion you could be pressurised into smuggling. Two months really is nothing to boast about when it comes to being clear, talk to us again when it's been five years. Best advice, forget it.:suspect: |
I doubt you'll see much overt support for your position in here Cetnik. IMO recreational drug-use of any sort is about the stupidest choice you can make at any time in your life, for whatever reason. It would be naive in the extreme to contend that there is no recreational drug-use amongst the pilot community -there's more than ample evidence that this is not the case. It is more than likely however that you'll find a majority of the pilot community are 'clean', are that way by choice and have been all their lives. As a function of that, you can expect to find an exceptionally low tolerance of self-confessed recreational drug users and an absolute intolerance of discovered 'closet' recreational drug users -for wont of a better way of putting it.
Do you stand a chance? Not in any organisation in which I hold a position of responsibility, if I know of your use. |
Try Cabin Crew, sounds as if you would fit right in with a certain element there!:}
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How old are you?
1. Find out if your GP has made any record of what you told him. If it ain't in writing, it didn't happen, and unless he prescribed something (Valium, Zoloft?) he may not have recorded anything. Besides you might have simply been fantasising and he didn't believe you. Furthermore, if you only did something once or twice, it would not necessarily be material in my opinion. I'd discuss it with your GP in more detail including whether he thought it was material and discussing exactly how anyone would find out different from what you say on your medical form if there is no record. 2. But there is a deeper issue, there is a difference between being "young and stupid" and using drugs as self medication for personal problems. If the latter is the case, then you had better think very hard about whether those problems still exist, because they WILL resurface during your training when it becomes stressful, as it will no doubt be from time to time, and if they resurface and you resort to self medication again, then you and anyone flying with you, are in deep deep lethal trouble. To put that another way, if you lose situational awareness while flying on instruments in a dark and stormy night, from stupid drug or anxiety related stuff going on in your head, then you are simply dead. 3. Thanks to the random drug testing regime, you will get caught if you do stupid stuff. Not sure if usage two months ago will be picked up. 4. It is not unusual to be mixed up and unsure of what you want to do with your life at your age. Exactly how did you determine you wanted to be a pilot? What aircraft have you flown? When did you decide this? Last week? Yesterday? Do you know what the job really entails? If you haven't dipped your toe in the water and tested your aptitude, then maybe now is the time to do so before you commit yourself (and your parents hard earned cash) to training schemes. To put it another way "Not so fast young Skywalker." On a brighter note, I'm afraid I've had to deal with similar young peoples problems, and the individuals concerned now hold some pretty responsible qualifications in a transport environment and are doing just fine. To put it another way if you've grown out of it, and it was just "youthful high spirits", and there is no record, forget about it, don't mention it because it's not material. OK,now flame me for potentially encouraging an illegal act. |
Interesting range of responses to this 'problem'!
Jaba............as far as I understand, repeated exposure to ecstasy can apparently result in memory loss, brain damage and depression, and repeated exposure to speed can result in malnutrition, psychosis (including violence), reduced resistence to infection, and brain damage. Simply, the potentially disastrous consequences of taking ecstasy and speed far outweigh the (perceived) benefits. Jabawocky offered you some good advice Cetnik..........here's some more from the Designated Medical Examiner's Handbook:
Somehow, I think that you may need to reassess your career ambitions. :( |
Hmmmm..... why the sympathy, (Young and stupid, just tried once, he will grow out of it). I have never and will never touch drugs and the majority of my friends are the same. I am not a motivated person, I listen to heavy metal music and have had some very unhappy times in my life however, I NEVER turned to drugs. There is NO EXCUSE for it. END OF STORY! It's not like he didn't know what he was doing!! There is plenty of info out there warning of the dangers. IT'S ILLEGAL FOR ______ SAKE!! Doesn't that tell you something? He made the decision to do something that is CLEARLY illegal, harmful and overall STUPID! Too late buddy. Coles or Woolies for this kid.
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Cetnik, once you have finished with this thread, get another username because they aviation community is quite small and you will be identified quite quickly if you continue to post on Pprune under that name while training.
The ignore the likes of NAS1801 comments. He doesn't know what you and I know. For starters, there would not be one teenager in Australia who hasn't puffed on Marijuana at least once, it's far easier for teenagers to get than cigarettes and alcohol. The drugs issue is one of those "I wish you hadn't told me that!" areas. If you tell the DAME, then they are required to take action. Once that action is taken and its on your record, even if the DAME then issues you a medical certificate then it appears unlikely any employer will hire you, ever. It's a catch 22 situation. To put it another way, there is no point even attempting to start an aviation career if evidence (from you or anyone else) exists of prior drug use, even if you are completely "clean" for years. I often have to go out of my way counselling various young people that what they do before the age of 18 DOES count as far as police and medical records go. Most of them think the slate is wiped clean at age 18 - it isn't. |
For starters, there would not be one teenager in Australia who hasn't puffed on Marijuana at least once, |
For starters, there would not be one teenager in Australia who hasn't puffed on Marijuana at least once, J |
For starters, there would not be one teenager in Australia who hasn't puffed on Marijuana at least once, Pyro |
Sunfish, I find your comments offensive. I went through all my teen years without touching drugs once. To say that I must have smoked marijuana is offensive to me.
morno |
hahaha Pyro, you maybe in the minority. But I too would like to believe that not ALL teenagers have smoked pot 'cause I have an 18 yr daughter who I would think is the last person to do such a dumb thing. & no Pyro you ain't having her Mob number either!:bored:
I see this thread is gathering much speed & so it ought to, if we can 'weed' (poor choice of a word I know) out those that want to add to the woes of a professional pilot by way of a past or current drug problem all the better CW |
CW, no Mob number for an upstanding gentleman like myself?! what a letdown!
anyway, I really never got 'the chance' to try and illicit drugs and generally didn't care about it.. and nowadays I think more about my future and say no... I have been offered drugs of course. |
Reflection:
Yes I too was young and dumb, I "once" tried a joint at 17, and made myself sick, because I had never smoked, and still do not know how to!
And I have done other stupid things that I should have known better. So you have a chance, a very good one, but it is kinda like a game of golf, or target shooting, you are playing against yourself here, how do you know you have the dicipline to stay away from it, only time will tell you. In the meantime for those of us with kids , read on! Ms. Crystal Meth by Samantha Reynolds If my 'glamorous' lifestyle is appealing to you. . . And you want to try me because you've 'nothing to lose'. . . Then, let me give you a bit of advice: You are a fool. . . and you'd better think twice. I destroy homes. I tear families apart. I take your children~ And that's just the start. I'm more valued than diamonds; more precious than gold. The sorrow I bring is a sight to behold. If you need me, remember; I'm easily found. I live all around you. In school and in town. I live with the rich. I live with the poor. I live just down the road, and maybe next door. I'm made in a lab, but not in one like you think. I can be made under your kitchen sink. Or in your child's closet, and even out in the woods. If this scares you to death, it certainly should. I have many names, but there's one you'll know best. I'm sure you've heard of me. My name's Crystal Meth. My power is awesome. Try me you'll see. But if you do you may never break free. Just try me once and I might let you go. But if you try me twice then I own your soul. When I posses you you'll steal and lie. You'll do what you have to just to get high. The crimes you'll commit for my clandestine charms Will be worth the pleasure you'll feel in my arms. You'll lie to your mother. You'll steal from your dad. When you see their tears you must not feel sad. Just forget your morals and how you were raised. I'll be your conscious. I'll teach you my ways. I take kids from their parents. I take parents from kids. I turn people from God. I separate friends. I'll take everything from you; Even your good looks and your pride. I'll be with you always---right there by your side. You'll give up everything; Your family, your home Your money, your friends. You'll be all alone. I'll take and I'll take until you've no more to give. When I'm finished with you, you'll be lucky to live. If you try me be warned: THIS IS NOT A GAME. If I'm given the chance, I'll drive you insane. I'll ravage your body. I'll control your mind. I'll own you completely. Your soul will be mine. The nightmares I'll give you when your lying in bed.... And the voices you'll hear from inside your head.... The sweats, the shakes and the visions you'll see.... I want you to know: These are your gifts from me. By then it's to late and you'll know in your heart That you are now mine and we shall not part. You'll regret that you tried me. (They always do.) Just remember; you came to me. Not I, to you. You knew this would happen. How many times were you told? But you challenged my power. You chose to be bold. You could have said "No" and then walked away. If you could live that day over, now what would you say? My power is awesome as I told you before. I can take your mother and turn her into a whore. Go ahead and curse me with every breath. Just make your choice: Will it be life or meth? You will take unknown paths on your journey through life. Some will bring happiness. Some will bring strife. But, my path is one you must not ever cross. Although it's well trodden countless lives have been lost. Now that you've met me, what will you do? Will you try me or not? It's all up to you. I can show you more misery than words can tell~ Come, take my hand. Let me lead you to Hell. Chr's H/Snort:ok: |
Sunfish,.....Cetnik....
YOU TWO WILL NEVER IN YOUR NATURAL BORN LIFE EVER FLY MY AIRPLANES!!! I FORBID YOU TO EVEN DREAM ABOUT IT!!! End of story. |
Capt Wally, don't be a spoil sport and share your daughters number around, :E
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not to you morno, only under 20's! :ok:
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I think you gentleman should read the question.
He was asking for an opinion from .... Pilots with history of recreational drug use. |
Morno & cessna_dave, geez you guys are easily offended why don't you grow some thicker skin.
I have never touched drugs either and yet I think that amongst my non-aviation friends that I probably would be the only one that hasn't. The point that was trying to be made is that there is a huge percentage of people try drugs these days, particularly young people. Perhaps the word "most" should have been used. Are you happier now? |
Looks like the percentage of youths who used Marijuna is more like 13.8%, whereas alcohol is more like 37.6%.
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/r...hapter1.html#2 But lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story :ugh: |
Morno Pyro has shown to date he's a smart little individual so if I was to 'sell' my daughter to a pilot (how dumb would that be !) then you will have to take a number:E Remember I'm a male, a pilot & believe in the 'Darwin' theory, so hence I'll keep my daughter locked away!;)
Drugs? well they are available always have been although these days maybe peer pressure is far more real than it was in my youthful days but there are options today far more than there was many years ago for assitance. Help is so readily available but aviation ought to be the last thing on a previous drug users mind CW |
I never touch drugs, but i drink like a fish and i bet some of you do too. What you need to understand is that ALL drugs at certain levels will have impact on your life. I personally would not have a problem with employing someone who smoked a joint occasionally, or took an eccy at a party, In fact i would prefer someone who had an open mind and attitude to life over some of the wankers here on pprune who just sit in front of their computers thinking about flying all day looking at airliners.net and only taking a break to wipe down their screens.
I would bet my bottom dollar that most of you are religious too- which i consider an illegal drug in itself as it fills your head with so much crap. Most of you guys would be shocked to learn that recreational drug use is not confined to kids who work at coles too, it occurs at every level of any profession you could name. And why is the avition industry so precious? Sorry to bring you down a peg boys, but there are more mentally demanding jobs out there than driving jets. Whoever made the stupid comment about the Cherrokee 6. The guy had an engine failure. If he had been hungover, as i know many pilots who have flown in such a state, would there be such an uproar? Good on you cetnik for trying to get to where you want to go in life. dont tell anyone about your past and look forward to your future. Just make sure you pass any drug tests honestly and i will fly with you anyday. some of you guys need to get a life away from being critical of others. |
Mr Milk like all the rest of us in here yr allowed yr opinion, BUT just about every one of the posts are dead against that sort of behavior, you are definetly in the minority, thank God !
CW |
Sensitive? How? If the religious amongst us all come forward and pray that cetnik burns in hell this whole problem will be solved!:}
Wal i respect anyones opinion- although i might sound as if i dont, i just reserve the right to hang sh1t on people the same as they can hang it on me. Thats what people in here need to realise- that all that goes on here is opinion and not to take anyones too much to heart. |
Mr Milk at 52 yrs of age (same as me) I wonder what allows you the thoughts that it may be ok to some degree to do drugs & be accepted when as teenagers we would have had very little opertunity to do drugs & was probably the furtherest thing from most minds, not like these days where it's almost available on every street corner! I would as I assume just about every one else of our vintage disscourage like crazy the use, acceptance & the beleif that it's no big deal to use mind altering drugs & continue to fool ones self never lone an employer. Professional pilots need to be ever vigilant, it's hard enough to be focussed & stay alert as it is with constant T&C's errosion never lone having had a past of ilicit drug use to deal with & hide.. I accept yr opinion but I just don't agree like as I said most others would have the same feeling.
BTW I have no problem with the original posters ambition to get where he wants to go it's just that I feel as so many others must do has gone about it the wrong way CW CW |
This is a stupid thread, no-one would argue that there is no room for drugs and alcohol in our industry, however you would be deluding yourself if you believe there's a difference between the two and this "is" an issue in our industry, whether you care to acknowledge that or not. The question is, "is it properly managed"
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Cetnikl.....
Don't listen to all the wowsers..... Look, when i was younger, I, as did many of my mates dabbled in the odd smoking of some pot (yes I know its dumb, but we were all young once) it never affected my pilots licence (not that I smoked when i was flying) I obviously gave it up after leaving my teenage years and am now gainfully employed flying a big jet as many of my mates who also had a dabble as well. The best advice i could give you is, give the eccy's away now, knuckle down, don't tell you doctor anything he doesn't want to hear and make a career out of flying if thats what you want.....If you wanna keep getting high, buy a guitar and play at the local pub for a living... Most importantly off all, if your going to do both, think carefully of the responsiblity you have as PIC... |
All I'm going to say is that I find it difficult to reconcile the sanctimonious self-righteous comments posted by pilots on here with my experience of pilots, and at 55 I've associated with quite a few.
I've seen them all, from drunks leaving the club at midnight who are flying the jet out the next morning at 7am to those who like a toke at night and fly safely the next day. To whomever it was who said "You will never fly my aircraft!" I can only say good luck in your blindness, because those people are almost certainly already flying for you, and you wouldn't have a clue. Get your head out of the sand, people, and stop pretending pilots come equipped with a halo. |
Finally some people are speaking without the narrow mindedness of a few of the posters here. If the lad wants to turn his life around and become an aviator he should have every oportunity. I know many pilots who have dabbled in illicit use of drugs in thier pre flying lives and many are successful and happy pilots, having left thier mistakes behind.
If he gives up the wacky weed for good and can pass the required testing then good luck to him. |
"mmm.....Drugs are baid....hokayyy??!"
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