Qantas Pay
 

I'm after some information on current Qantas pay rates.

I'm looking at SO direct entry in about eighteen months and I'd like to know what I'd be paid:

a) During conversion
b) in the first couple of years following conversion.

I'd also like to know how soon one can attempt an upgrade to FO and what the pay rates are like for FOs.

http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Se...W)&quickview=Y

That's EBA 7. EBA 8 being sorted out now ..

Thanks, although wading all the way through that could take some time.

Does anyone out there have a quick answer (within +/- $10K)

a) Pay on conversion?
b) Pay once on line?
c) Average length of time to make FO?

Also, if I became a commuter, what airfare to staff pay (say for the commute from ML - SY)?

Cheers.

Are any QF guys able to give some info on how easy/hard commuting is with a SY base but living in ML?

Also is getting a ML base easy/hard? Is there a decent length wait for this?

Cheers

Bulla

I'm looking at a a S/O position in about 18mths?
Want to know what I will be paid?
How soon can I get more $$$?
I think I would like to commute?

A right arrogant prat you are!

Why don't you work on getting the job ( and then keeping it)first.
With 18 mths to qualify to APPLY for a job as a human radio operator/ map folder/auto pilot/ ego massager, do you think you will have any other better ( read "other") options ?

What happened to the young lads who just wanted to fly and dreamed of that day when they opened at letter that offered something else other than " thank you for your update or we wish you well in your carreer"?
Money was second, no, I didn't even consider how much I would be paid.

Think you better go into IT. Fantastic pay and they fly your first class......if your good enough!
Love to be a fly on the wall during your interview!

Sir,I think if you hired by Qantas as S/o.I guess you will be paid around 65000Au$ annually.
And u will be expected to move on F/o seat in 4 to 5 years.
Other forum members can correct my mistakes if i m wrong.But again it's only my guess.

DirectAnywhere

Thanks for the info mate. I am already in the QF system so the staff travel is already in place luckily.

Good to know the standbys disappear as you go up the totem pole, I was not aware of that.

The 73 FO was what I had in mind eventually, can you confirm everything else is based from SY?

Do you know if many 330 staff commute? Do they find it OK. I have been told the trips are short compared to the 400, thus commuting is not as viable.

Thanks

Bulla

DA

Thanks for the info, much appreciated,

Bulla.

Who the hell gave you the birth right?
 

I agree with International trader. :D

In response to the intial thread, maybe you should include a few words like 'lucky enough' or 'previlaged'. while there is a pilot shortage at the moment, don't go getting to big for your boots mate. There WILL ALWAYS be someone else to fill'em for you.

May I suggest your outlook change to one like:

"If I work hard and long enough then I hope to....."

That is the problem with the current ankle bitters these days... everything now, bugger tomorrow:confused:

Goodness me.

International trader says: "A right arrogant prat you are!

Why don't you work on getting the job ( and then keeping it)first.
With 18 mths to qualify to APPLY for a job as a human radio operator/ map folder/auto pilot/ ego massager, do you think you will have any other better ( read "other") options ?

What happened to the young lads who just wanted to fly and dreamed of that day when they opened at letter that offered something else other than " thank you for your update or we wish you well in your carreer"?
Money was second, no, I didn't even consider how much I would be paid.

Think you better go into IT. Fantastic pay and they fly your first class......if your good enough!
Love to be a fly on the wall during your interview!"

First, you assume that right now I don't even have a student licence. As it happens, I am employed as a pilot with another operator and I do have the qualifiactions for Qantas SO. I am unable to seperate from my current employer for eighteen months. After that, I would like to work for Qantas. In answer to your question, I HAVE done the work to apply for the job.

Second, what is wrong with learning about general pay and conditions of any potential job? I do not have to leave my current employer and if it was such that QANTAS was going to pay me significantly less than what I earn now I might just stay where I am. IT, by the way, doesn't interest me.

Thanks for the aggro, mate.

Hawkert20 said: "I agree with International trader.

In response to the intial thread, maybe you should include a few words like 'lucky enough' or 'previlaged'. while there is a pilot shortage at the moment, don't go getting to big for your boots mate. There WILL ALWAYS be someone else to fill'em for you.

May I suggest your outlook change to one like:

"If I work hard and long enough then I hope to....."

That is the problem with the current ankle bitters these days... everything now, bugger tomorrow"

Let's see, I started in GA back in about 1986, I finally managed to get a job in aviation in 1998. It's now 2008. Is that enough work for you? Am I patient enough?

Ignore the proon vultures
 

Good luck to you Surditas:ok:

Unfortunately, there will always be bitter and twisted knockers here who feel all should endure their same apparently unpleasant pilgrimage.

No worries, you've got 18 months to read through it.

Do you want the answers to the interview questions as well, save you wading through that?:hmm:

Surditas
 

"Thanks, although wading all the way through that could take some time" Patient enough?.... Well I don't know, but you wish to be spoon fed.

Sounds like you have about the same experience levels (approx) as myself. Therefore you would know that to get anywhere, you cannot rely on others; but instead do the hard work (research) yourself. Someone gave you the precise answer you asked for. They gave you the whole document, yet you wanted the exec. summary.:{

Further, your comment "I'm looking at SO direct entry in about eighteen months and I'd like to know what I'd be paid" is what makes you sound like a prat. How can you assume you would get in?:bored:

I'm not bitter or twisted, nor is it about a set unpleasant pilgrimage .. I just believe in one thing... you only get something once you have earned it. If you can do it quicker than me, it only means you deserve it more.

Bloody hell!

It's a 379 page document and, yes, I can find exact figures in it, but I'm also sure that someone out there would know the rough figures. As it happens, DirectAnywhere was able to help by pointing me in the right direction. Hardly being spoon fed. If someone asked you directions to the train station would you tell them "it's the next left and then go 500m" or would you throw The Times Atlas of the World and a compass at them?


Oh, and I don't assume I'll get in, either. I may have the qualifications, but that's no guarantee. Equally, though, what's so noble about assuming, as you seem to want me to do, that I won't get in. Why, it must be asked, apply for a job, especially one as demanding as airline pilot, if you are convinced your application will be unsuccessful?

stuck in a rut???
 

surditas... how is it that you're still in GA after 20 years??? oh, make sure you tell the FO who interviews you that you couldn't be bothered looking up fleet developments, routes etc.. just like the EBA you were chasing. he'll love it!

I wouldn't pay too much attention to those that ridicule you 'Surditas'. You have a 50/50 chance of getting in any Co, just like the 50/50 personal opinion of those within here.
Yr biggest downfall here when you first posted yr thread was the way you presented yr enquiries. Those that responded with malice have issues with anybody that's not like them. Those that responded with helpful suggestions are simply nice people, shame their pilots !:)

CW:)

I think this thread highlights very clearly one of the downsides of working for QF. Having to deal with some of the self righteous, arrogant people who have responded on here would be enough to turn anybody off.

It was a very clear and concise question.

The way in which it has been interpreted is only due to the superiority complex of the people reading it.

machrider and cpt wally,

I'm sorry, I don't follow how that because I thought the original question was worded in an arrogant way, I am therefore malicious, self righteous and arrogant. :confused:
Perhaps it's a way of feeling good about yourself - everyone that says something you don't like to hear is a bad, nasty person.:confused::rolleyes:

In the English language most things come down to interpretation.

So if I asked you the old "Have you slept with your mother?" question, and you thought I meant something sexual, does that make you a sicko. Not necessarily, because my question was worded in such a way that it was easily going to be misinterpreted. If I had wanted a meaningful answer, I should have asked something more like, "At any time in your life, have you slept in the same bed as your parents?".

Now I'm sure Surditas didn't intent it, but his original question did sound arrogant to most people, judging by the reactions on here. No big deal, don't try to defend a stuff-up, just re-explain yourself more clearly.

And Cpt Wally, getting a job really has little to do with chance. Sure there is a certain bit of "right place, right time" but if anything, you would have more like a 90/10 "chance" of getting a job if they offer you an interview. Until you open your mouth at least. Then it comes down to how the interviewers interpret your answers, so you want to make damn sure you're clear.

Grrowler,

Thanks, it was not the intent of the question. In fact, you could (and I will) argue that you append my sentence with "...should I be accepted as SO" just as easily as "...when I am accepted as SO." I suppose it depends on one's world view. I would have re-worded it more clearly if someone had have queried the intent, but a couple of people here made up their minds and launched on me, so I was pretty much forced to go defensive.

Senshi,

Umm, never said I was currently in GA, I said I started there and now I'm currently employed by "another operator" who is not Qantas. If I do get an interview, then rest assured that I will have done detailed study on the fleet, routes, company policy, pay rates, aerody, systems etc, etc, etc.




Whilst I don't need to justify my reasons here, I'm going to anyway:

I had heard that in moving to Qantas I'd be looking at a pay cut (same as you hawkert20 and International Trader??). DirectAnywhere's link proves it for me. Should I be so fortunate that Qantas grants me an interview and elects to employ me I need to know mundane things like "can I afford a house for my wife and three children?" I am starting, now, eighteen months to two years from potential Qantas emloyment, to consider where I could afford to live and if I could do the commuter thing if I got a job with the Big Q. Standard questions at job interviews include "do you know what we pay you?" and "can you live on that?". If my answers were "dunno" and "oh, I plan to live in a tent with my family next to 34 at Mascot" I suspect that the Qantas interview would end rather abrubtly. So, I was after quick information so that I could sort out some of the minor details over the next eighteen months of my life ("does the car need a wash?", "what's on TV tonight?" and "will my wife need to work full-time, part-time or not at all?").


I'm sorry to lower the tone and discuss money, but as desirable as the job of pilot is, not too many of us would do it for free as a full-time occupation.

I'd not been to pprune for a while, but DirectAnywhere, Tahir, Capt Wally and Machrider prove that it is still an excellent place for gouge and I thank you.

I'd forgotten, however, that there's always pedants on here who use their high horses to leap headlong at conclusions.

Yeah Capt Wally and machrider provided fantastic info, should be all you need to know.:confused:

I am surprised that someone who has been flying as long as you doesn't have any idea what QF drivers get paid. Obviously it's not "for free".

Go to www.ppjn.com and all the payscales are there for you, plus for most other airlines.

However, if you are trying to determine your lifestyle before committing to QF wouldn't you want to know the "conditions" not just the "terms"?

Anyway, off to ride my high horse.:cool:

I've got some idea of the conditions, but I'm afraid to ask any more details lest some people here accuse me of wanting to live some kind of champagne lifestyle.

International Trader suggested that I should not be consdering rather base things like income and that I should be doing it solely for the passion. Doesn't really put food on the table, though, does it?


Honestly, up until now I haven't really had a firm grip on what SOs, FOs and captains get paid for any airline. My current employer doesn't do RPT (or charter, or pvt for that matter), so I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to airline remuneration.

Thanks for the link to PPJN. I've not seen it before. :ok:

What colour's your horse? :cool:

Have you tried a search of these forums? A quick search of 'qantas commuting' shows up these two threads:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=300892

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=249181

A quick search of a few other terms shows this thread:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=302253

Do a search for any of my posts with term pilots, or techies, or rates, or rate, or commute and you'll find more threads.

Playing the victim won't get you too far at interview! := In case you're thinking of taking the moral high ground and claiming that you weren't being a victim then et me give you a some free advice. If you're not being a victim with this statement then you are certainly being overly precious. Either way your comments show why you have some critical self evaluation to do before you come up for a Qantas psych test and interview.

When communicating with others, if the other party didn't get the message exactly as I wanted then that is generally MY problem! When that occurs it's my place to apologise for not being clear enough with my style and tone and to make the necessary correction. Failing to admit that I made the stuff up in the first instance and instead trying to tell others that they're the ones in the wrong is not a trait that works well in life in general but especially on a flight deck. So think very seriously about how you are approaching your potential future colleagues Surditas. Being able to admit you're wrong- (or at least potentially wrong) without having to let you dig a very deep hole so that it's obvious beyond all doubt- is a trait I want in a fellow crew member.

Surditas

Believe it or not I am one of your best friends in this thread.
I am one of the few who has taken the time to give you some help to maybe get you that position or others that you may wish to be "considered" for.

Sure it's "tough love" but you would get plenty of that sort in QF, and then some.
If you don't listen well maybe others will see something in what I say.

The competition for a QF job will always be very tough. If you made a bad impression with me, I can assure you that others in employment departments will come to a similar conclusion. How do I know this? I have recently left that very area.

No time for tears, my advice is free and you now have the chance to think over your approach to the QF interview process, "IF" the process should ever be offered to you.
The process is extensive and designed to vet out all except the person that the company believes is the person they want. That word "impression" comes to mind again.

By the way, QF currently put cadets with 250 odd hours in the very position that you will seek in 18 mths time. If you have been flying in GA for 20 years( and I assume you mean that you have been flying commercially in GA for 20 years), I would also prepare answers as to why it took you 21 1/2 years to decide that you wanted to be a QF pilot instead of at year 1( or earlier). Sounds like I talk sh-t to you ? Well maybe you are not the sort of person they are looking for. Remember, they are ones with the jobs to give.

As for salary, do you think that a company like QF would not pay you enough to live a reasonable existance? Unless you have a plum job in GA ( in which case you are grossly over qualified for the job) the salary will generally be equal or more that any GA salary.
Of course the position has generally been offered to people in their twenties not their forties as you should be if you have be flying in GA for 20 years.
You could have been in a command position now if you wanted to be a Qantas pilot 20 years ago.
Comments like "I have to be sure that I adequately provide for my children, home, etc" are important to you. They should be but, should this be important to a company that is only looking for someone that "THEY" consider to be the best in the field?

Don't get angry, get even and show that you can get the job.

QF pay is a disgrace.I have been in the company for over 11 years now and my salary is nowhere near what it should be.The gross pay may be at an industry standard but after tax it is an absolute joke.Just had my EK interview.Waiting on the result.Im out.Moral is another whole topic but I won't even bother to start on that one.

Seriously, this is BS! :ugh:

Personally I thought that pilots could read.

Take five minutes to read through this thread (less time than it took you write your post). Most of your questions regarding pay and conditions will be answered. Keg has even done the searching for you and given you links to the relevant threads. I posted a direct link to a website that lists the payscales. What more do you want?

Regarding the SO/ FO thing, everyone starts as an SO.

OK so roughly speaking its 80, 90, 100K for 1st, 2nd 3rd yr S/O respectively.

Since my GA salary never threatened such lofty heights and given that I am not a taxation guru, how does that equate to a fortnightly take home pay packet- roughly speaking of course...

Strewth, talk about spoon feeding! :ugh:

Australian Tax rates can be found in a number of places:

http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/co...tent/12333.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_Australia

Some quick back of the envelope maths shows that $75K will net about $2200 per fortnight. Throw some allowances on top of that and you've got your answer.

$100K nets about $2800 per fortnight.

I'll collect my fee if you guys ever get into QF. It involves me never buying drinks. I like good bottles of red wine! :E

Thanks Keg,

I'll take bottle o wine option over looking at ATO websites thanks!

Will that be Jacobs Creek or do ya feel lucky and go with a clean skin? :E

Read this again carefully and I'll highlight the critical word! :E

You underestimate my desire for good red wine....and it'll be a lot more than just one bottle! :E

Strewth is right...
 

If you were reading this thread for the first time (like I did) you'd get the worst impression of "so-called" professional people. Bl:mad::mad:dy hell, just give the guy an answer or don't post. I have no idea where some folks get the time to sling mud at each other. You definately have some issues if you have more free time to put someone down and defend it, rather than simply answer the question. Its EXACTLY those kinds of responses that give PPRUNE its "closed doors" reputation. What does it gain telling someone they are a prat for not using the search function? If each post had to pass a relevance test before appearing, we'd only have 2 or 3 posts in this thread.

If you've nuthin nice to say, why say it?

BP:bored:

just to add, the QF figures on the ppjn website are indeed correct and up to date.

Anyone else notice the irony inherent in this post? Best laugh I've had all day! :E :ok:

I can search too but I tend to be a lazy searcher hardly ever do it ... anyway,
What you can read from the awards and posts is fair enough but let's face it without knowing what hours you work and what allowances you receive it's pretty hard to come up with an exact figure on all the sums. Ill just give a few points, and that is the operative word because like everything in aviation it's always changing.

1) ATM there is no opportunity to be hired as direct entry F/O or Captain at mainline QF, just as Second Officer

2) Right now you will be hired as a S/O on 747-400 or A330 fleets with A380 to come soon I am guessing.

3) Depending on what aircraft you get on will have a difference to your pay and commuting experience , suffice to say you can commute on any fleet fairly easily as an S/O

4) Staff return ticket MEL - SYD? I don't know exactly but around $120 I would say with a fair amount of accuracy give or take 5 or 10 lol

5) Training pay? Well it would be around 2-4 months but it varies. Suffice to say it is fairly low. I think it is Gross mid 20's maybe up to 30k Gross per year now, if anyone can update this would be appreciated. Either way you wont be living a champagne lifestyle unless you class passion pop as one! ;)

6) The longer range aircraft 744 and A380 will probably have easier aspects to commuting as you can get so many hours from each trip, but the A330 isnt bad either from what I here as it operates a lot of flights out of Brisbane and Melbourne at the moment.

7) Pay? Well overtime is the key equation obviously 744 and in future A380 will have a lot more than A330. I dont think many first year S/O's would be on less than 80k these days, and possibly close to 100k for some. But pay increases each year after checking out fairly significantly. Some 5 and 6 year S/O's if they target overtime trips could be close to 130 or 140k I guess but this is just what I heard not proven.

8) Allowances? 10k-20k per year but in general most S/O's dont have any left over at end of trips lol! Mabe a little bit!

9) Promotion to F/O ? How long is a piece of string? Depends on the time and how motivated you are to move quick? I would say in the next few years quite fast if everything goes ok 2-3 years? It could be as long as 5 or 6 though it just depends what fleet you want to go to and the timing.

Anyway its my 4 cents worth, hope it answered some questions but lets face it the major challenge is getting through the process gl! :ok:

AoA,

Nice one. Thankyou for that.

International Trader and Keg,

Thankyou as well for your advice. I would like to note a couple of points, though.

First, I am reasonably sure the Qantas interview process is done face-to-face, not via an internet forum. The reason I note this is because internet forums demonstrate how easily it is for people to get off on very much the wrong foot.

To whit, my second point. My comment about being afraid to ask questions was made in jest. It was meant to be humourous, not a statement of victimhood. Perhaps I should have added ":)" to make it obvious.

Third, I reiterate, I do not currently work in GA.

SO commuting
 

Commuting is not a problem from ML to SYD on the A330 - however it is a bit of a pain. These are some things (although SMALL in the big scheme of things) to think about for ML-SYD commuting.

1. At the moment WITH staff travel it is $138.80 BUSINESS class (although you can and will be downgraded) and $126 ECONOMY.

2. There is some stress with commuting as you might not get a seat. This leaves you a few options - get a flight at least three or four BEFORE you REALLY need to depart, or leave the night before (STBY 0700 to 1900 means a night before departure)

3. Accommodation - depending on where you stay it will cost about $55 - 75 per night.

4. Don't check you baggage - always have carry on, this will save you time at the end.

The A330 roster is shorter than the 744 in terms of trip length, next roster sees something like this - about a week off then 5 or 6 trips all of 4 days away and all with three days at home.

As for the pay - it is about 36k for the training (3 months on the bus). Remember that if you live in MEL you will need to stay in SYD during the training - more cost. At the moment, and for the foreseeable future, part of the QF SO A330 training is being done in HK or Singapore, or KL (about 15-16 days away = about $2300 Aust in allowances)

The hourly rate for training is $34/hour min divisor of 155 hours per bid period (56 days)

The hourly rate for the first 18 months is $64/hour. This DOES NOT include allowances - very ROUGHLY about A$100 per day whilst away.

Look closely at the interview stuff in 18 months, I BELIEVE (think, heard, perhaps) that QF is now going down the psych test then an interview based on behavioral technique (ie NO tech stuff - they did really care about your tech knowledge - that is assumed by the fact that you have done ATPL and any experience you already have - you've been tested on this stuff many times in the past).

The difference in SO pay between the A330 and the 744 is about 30k per year (REMEMBER this is A GUIDE/GOUGE/GUESS/ANECDOTAL) as ALL pay depends on how much you work - overtime.

As a commuter you might want to budget about $1000 - $1200 per bid period (56 days) on commuting costs.

Let the experts correct my mistakes, but for what you were after, this should give you some rough figures to plan with.

All smiles,

The jump seat is available if you have a red ASIC card AND you have the Captains OK AND you have a paid ticket. Nothing free here!

Ummm.... AND your employed by a Qantas Group Company :( :ugh: :yuk: :{ :mad:

Pay Scales
 

the ppjn site has the pay scales for FO and Capt on the whole fleet, but not the SO scales.

....is SO pay a % of the FO pay?

Also... if an SO upgrades to FO after (say) 5 years, does s/he go onto 5-year FO pay or is that only after 5 years as an FO?

Jus' wunnerin' :ok:

QFCaptain,

If you think those payscales are up to date, you need to make a call to PeopleConnect pretty damn fast.

Bendo,

Its years in the company. So if you spend 5 years as an SO on the -400 (if your brain is that dull it lets you) and then transfer to the 767 you will be on the year 5 767 FO payrate.

M