Merged: Qantaslink Traineeship/Cadetship/General Employment
 

Hey guys,

a friend showed me this and I was suprised it wasn't already being disucussed on PPrune. The link is: http://qantaslink.bfound.net/detail....CoId=189&rq=18

Has it been around for a while, or is this a new training program Qlink have introduced?

Experience

• 150 hours total flying time;
• 70 hours Pilot in Command;
• Command Instrument Rating is desirable but not compulsory.

My job as a meat bomber has higher requirements! I guess Qantas Cadets have been flying RPT ops with these type of hours for a while, but it seems as this is seperate to the Cadet program?

:ok:

Qantaslink traineeship (Merged)
 

anybody else seen this.....

http://qantaslink.bfound.net/detail.aspx?jobid=58265&CoId=189&rq=18

Its gotta be new, it wasn't on their website when I checked it out less than a week ago.

you've got to be kidding me.......

What a load of cr@p!!
 

How glad am I that I finished with these guys yesterday! What a joke, just offer mainline progression and they might get more GA applicants. I feel sorry for the guys that I went through with because they will be the junior captains of the near future.

Ohh well I wish them well, the line pilots, definately not management! :yuk:

So I'm guessing you don't have to pay for a type rating?

The end of GA
 

Well if Qantas (link) are offering bare CPL's jobs and REX are offering to give people CPL's does that signal the end of GA. If pilots don't need to go and build hours before betting a turboprop job then where will GA operators get pilots from?

My boss wants more hours then that to fly a C210 and a lot more hours then that to fly a C402/404 so how can he compete. Two options:

1. Get 500 Total Time and i'll give you a C210 job living in an NT community, until you have 1000tt and then you might fly the C402; or

2. See me when you have finished your CPL and I'll let you fly the Dash 8 and keep living with mum and dad in Melbourne or Sydney.

I know which one most pilots will take, not to mention the difference in money on offer from GA to Regionals. I think the writing is on the wall. The next season in NW WA will be an interesting one to see how many pilots turn up at the scenic operators.

Good luck to all with the jobs on offer.

W&F.

what a waste of money, just pay the pilots a little more and offer career progression and they will have no problems.... anyway who will be left for these guys to fly with??? or is it another qantas training school for virgin???:ugh:

I'm currently undertaking a bachelor of aviation with one year to go, and must admit this traineeship sounds interesting. Although I have a couple of questions:

How do fresh CPL holders cope with the transition from something like a c182 to a dash 8? (I know QANTAS Cadets have been doing it for years now!)

Comparing:
-Single pilot VFR with no pax to multi crew IFR with around 50 pax.
-Staying well clear of the flight levels at speeds around 2nm's a minute to operating in the flight levels at speeds of over 300kts!
-Flying in and out of places like Moorabbin or Bendigo compared to international aerodromes such as Sydney or Melbourne.
-Handling the systems of small piston aircraft then jumping to what I imagine to be a far more compex dash 8.

I know there are many more comparisons to be made, those were just a few i could think of on the spot.

Everytime I see one of these puppies fly overhead I would love to be up there on the flightdeck, but then it all seems pretty daunting at the same time!

Any comments, information or advice is much appreciated in advance!
Garman!

You would think the training and type rating would cover all that garman.

Garman
 

Garman,

The questions that you raise are valid, they are the more worrying aspects of schemes like this. I came from exactly where you are now by the sound of it, then worked in GA for a few years before Qantaslink, now off to another airline. They are good opportunities but the management and training has to be implemented and conducted properly or standards may be an issue.

there is another thread about the 500hrs Multi Command

Which also brings up the point.
after you get your CPL and get through the endorsement and training. Once you start as an F/O will you ever amount to anything more than an F/O

(Not taking anything away from F/Os as pilots. But Im sure we ALL want to get commands after our stint in the right seat)

Are these cadetships / Training schemes just a supply of F/Os if so; where do they get the commands from?

Those of us who go to GA and get the hours (and by the sound of it, if half went to cadetships and half went to GA. GA would STILL be so short of pilots that 500hrs Multi Command would take all of a year to get)

Iron M,
I think you will find Qlink has a high capacity AOC and my understanding therefore is their captains do not need 500ME, just like the guys at mainline don't. (even VB have now changed to 500 multi with no mention of how many hours are command) As long as they have the requirements to hold an ATPL, and they meet the standard, I can't see why they couldn't be offered a command down the track.

Remember the days when you'd kill for a job sweeping a hangar so you'd get a look-in at a few hours on a 182 or even something real fast like a bonanza or 210?

Long gone.

There are a few GA operators that I recall invincible now probably not feeling quite so invincible anymore (he he he he :{:}).

Amen to that :}

Would like some more info than the few details on the QLink website. It mentions that the "airline preparation training program" will be sponsored by QantasLink and one can assume that this will come at some kind of cost to the employee, whether that be in bonded service and if so how much are going to be pretty important details for most applicants.

Get the 500 ME CMD Hassel don't be lured. Sacrifice one year and the world is your oyster mate.

Smell the roses on the way to.

Exactly.

Get out in the real world, get the experience and move on to some solid multi command. Sure there are risks, both financial and even personnel. But we've all done it, and in much tougher times than now.

Every one of these "Cadet" schemes (with the exception of QF Mainline) will probably fall flat on their collective asses! They have been set up with the intention of making money. The problem is that the only solution will involve a substantial monetary investment by the operators. Something they appear to be pathologically opposed to!

With their heads buried so far up where the Sun don't shine, it will be a spectacular revelation for them when it all turns to crap!

What an bizzare concept this traineship is. SO SO SO SO many highly experienced FO's have walked out the door over the last 12 months at QF link its incredible. Guys with heaps of time on type that would make great captains. They know the network, and are good people.

The company has done nothing at all to give them a reason to stay at QF link or the oppertunity to go to main line. Now they are offering guys with a CPL a job????

Surely some one in management is going to have to answer for this. This is a classic case study in poor human resource planning. Who is responsible and what are the implications for the safety of the operation and the future of the operation?

Just imagine one day in the near future, a 150 hour CPL holder is in the right seat and (God forbid) the captain becomes incapacitated...

Suddenly, this guy/girl is in command of a 20T turbo prop with fifty passengers and two FA's on board, barrelling into Sydney in weather like we've had in the last few days. With all the decisions to be made, having never been in command of anything bigger than a light single.

Not a pretty picture

Never a truer word said KRUSTY.

I understand it would be awfully tempting for newbies but once you get that time up in ga you are a free agent and can put your money on bigger machines.

GA is a tough world but it teaches you alot about flying and yourself. Well worth it. And these days its a matter of 12-18 months and your done.

(if you can get a QF mainline cadetship disregard all of the above - that one is the exception to the rule)

Dragun - completely agree but as others have pointed out in different threads in the UK people with those kinds of hours are in 737s and A320s.

Can kind of see management of airlines thought processes when airlines one day set a high mins and people say 'mins are too high', lower the mins and people say 'they are too low'. At what point are they 'just right', and who sets that point?

With good training it seems these sort of processes work out ok in Europe.

Been trying to figure out why QL is bothering with this. They are set to get a supply of cadets through the mainline scheme for the foreseeable future (a program which is growing substantially beyond it's traditional capacity).

This program seems to be in direct competition with QF and Rex programs - why bother with it???

Hmm this is all quite interesting...

If I read the information correctly, I believe this Qantas Link program includes that new "multi crew licence" that CASA have been talking about for a while. My understanding of this licence is that it removes the need for those obtaining the licence to go into GA and instead straight into the right hand seat in an airline with the ability to obtain a command within a reasonable time frame.

I believe that some schools are already looking into this licence already, and my question is - how will this new licence affect the job prospects for those currently working in GA? will airlines prefer candidates with a "multi-crew" licence over a CPL with thousands of hours of experience?

I dont know alot about this multi crew licence stuff - so if anyone is able to shed some light on it I would love to know some more.

Cheers

Mo :ok:

Capt Mo. are you getting confused with multi crew training, as stated on the QF traineeship site participants will undergo multi-crew and airline preperation that will last 2 or so ish months.

Probably - I have been up all day and I think Im about ready to fall asleep any minute!

Im not quite sure if the two are related - probably not. However, the multi crew licence itself does raise some interesting questions, and the outcome is pretty much the same as the Rex and Qlink programs (graduates jumping straight into the RH seat of an airliner).

I realise that a thread on the topic of multi crew licences was done months ago - and I dont want to drift away from the original post, so I might leave it here and hit the sack!

Sleepy Mo :zzz:

The MPL is different to what QL are offering - the 2 month training appears more of a 'bridging course' from what I can gather. Quite different to the full CASA MPL (when it comes).

With the very low hours, they are widening the net immensely. It will be interesting to see how competitive it is to get a go at the P&S Assessment.

Has anybody heard when the traineeship is meant to begin?

QANTASLINK PILOT TRAINEESHIP PROGRAM: This week QantasLink will announce a Traineeship program for new pilots.
The Traineeship program is designed for pilots who already have a basic Commercial Pilot`s Licence and who are capable of undergoing additional training. This additional training (duration approx 2
mths) would be undertaken by successful applicants in the form of a Traineeship. Upon successful completion of the training the Trainees would be eligible to join QantasLink as First Officers.
Applicants would have the following qualifications and experience:
􀁛 Commercial Pilot Licence preferably with ATPL (theory);
􀁛 Preferably minimum 100 hrs Pilot in Command;
􀁛 Higher School Certificate with passes in Maths and English;
􀁛 Multi-engine Command Instrument Rating (desirable, but not essential);
􀁛 Bachelor degree (desirable, but not essential).
For more information about this exciting opportunity with QantasLink and to register your interest go to qantaslink.bfound.net and follow the links to the Traineeship program.

This is the third thread, its already merged in D&G Questions

In today's day and age, where everybody wants everything, now, do you really think people are going to put themselves through G.A? Flying in crap wx, in crap planes for crap pay?

Most youngins these days can't grasp the concept of a delayed payoff....

Not when you can have it now, and fly around in a nice shiny Q400....

Please ..... no more new threads on this subject.......

:{ :{ :{

Tail Wheel

Bush is good but...
 

I hold very dear every lesson that I've learnt out bush (where I still reside and fly) but I'm bloody sick and tired of living in a boomtown where every mine employee, nurse, teacher, copper, dole bludger and members of every other profession is raking in the dough whilst I fly them around all day to drive home in a car I cannot afford to my lovely family in my ****e house, on a ****e street in a ****e part of town to eat whatever we can afford that week.


I’ve got a great boss but I know that he can’t pay me much more without raising prices. I digress:


Don’t try to tell me that McDonalds in Karratha (who pay their burger flippers $60k/p.a) charge the same price for a Big Mac as in Perth. What I’m getting at is that in these boom towns everything has increased (at a rate far greater than the national CPI) from petrol prices to food prices as have most wages… bar the pilots’. There may be some growing pains but operators would be wise to buckle down and prepare to pay their pilots more (of course, this may mean the pilots will have to expect to do more work as well).

Sorry, I’m not jaded, I do love my job but I just don’t get enough money for doing it and my lovely family are the ones I feel bad for. We will be taking the first good offer that comes our way whether it be left seat or right (got 1000+ TT and very little MEC).

FRQ CB

Air Niugini have been doing it for years. There is no problem with cadets in the right hand seat of Dash 8's. Straight out of flying school and into the Dash 8 simulator. You then do 500 hours of line training with a safety FO in the jump seat and then you're checked to line. This system works fine.

Not a great deal of fun for the safety FO's however. And then there is the problem of the new FO's not having sweet FA command time and so not being able to progress to the left thand seat.

Maybe they could do ICUS from the right hand seat? Don't laugh, it is happening!

Is it correct that they once again want HSC Maths and English? I thought that this requirement had been dropped by Qantas if you have a degree?

I think you'll find the requirement is waived if you have university credits in applicable maths/physics/english subjects.

I'm afraid my Masters in Macrame (specialising in effects of the pasta shortage during the renaissance) didn't quite cut it!:}

Its amazing that to apply for direct entry FO at QL you only need a HSC. But with this traineeship you need maths and english! Work that out...?

For Qantas mainline it says passes in HSC Maths and English or a fully completed bachelors degree of any discipline. So yes Icarus53 your masters degree in Macrame is reputable.

whilst this may be more attractive than a GA path, what is the starting salary? I would be surprised if it is much more than 50k which isnt a lot...anyone have any idea?

If they're contracted under the existing EBA - a smudge over 51k to start.

Question is will they employ the same way normal recruits come in, or will they be on a "training salary" (EBA sets this at 43k) for a while???

Still a pretty good deal - if you can get someone else to pay for your IR, you're already a head a decent wad of cash!!!

Any idea what the ROS is?

My biggest worry with this is the Terms and Conditions. I have spoken to Qantaslink (Eastern Guys) before, and they got in as full blown F/O's with 1000's of hours and to say the least they were worked pretty hard from my understanding and the pay wasn't great.

Sounds great, just a bit worried if management will take advantage of these new pilots.