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-   -   RAAF pilots leaving (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/278647-raaf-pilots-leaving.html)

ozbiggles 7th Dec 2007 11:56

Gundog, the now previous government did see it coming.The ADF was given money for retention. Navy and army pay additional money to keep people in that are in 'identified' as critical and or short staffed. The Airforce Emperor said he had plenty of storm troopers and had NO need for retention $$$$.
I think one of 'their' plans is to train "OPSOs" to fill some of our popular ground jobs thus freeing up more pilots....probably for more ground jobs that they would create?!.
The flaw in this logic is you can probably train an OPSO to do the paperwork....but you can't train them to be a QFI/FCI/B CAT in the next few years when the Training Flight officers are empty

control snatch 7th Dec 2007 12:40

Slezy9,

The reason for this is because the organisation needs a bunch of pilots to leave at the 10 year mark. Those that stay are not in it for the money. Its either up or out. Keeps the RAAF young and keen. However, it is not a perfect system (as we are seeing at the moment) when separation rates are higher than desired.

CamOnRed 7th Dec 2007 20:34

Introducing a rentention bonus for QFIs/FCIs all very well and good, but if they don't look at B Cats as well we will have some more teachers staying, but what about experienced line drivers?

I understand the need to train the next generation, but particularly at the FLTCDR level, quals like SQ and CQ (Training Captain and Check Captain in civil speak) are of more relevance. My understanding is that is where the bleeding is at the moment.

ozbiggles 8th Dec 2007 09:58

The slash was for B CAT line drivers,not B cat QFIs/FCI.
So as not to start a us and them argument....

Captain Sand Dune 9th Dec 2007 05:54


Its either up or out. Keeps the RAAF young and keen.
......and short of experience.

"Up or out"' "step up or shut up", yep, heard them all.

We've really got to get out of that mind set.

At $1 million+ to train a pilot to wings standard, I'm not sure the tax paying public would agree with the totally out-moded style of man management the RAAF uses to screw.......er "manage" it's pilots.

We need pilots to fly aircraft, not sit behind desks. The sooner the RAAF re-organises it's man-management priorities to suit it's flying operations rather than the manning of non-flying positions (as it currently does), the better.

But then, we don't have a pilot retention problem do we? Coooee my a**:mad:

control snatch 14th Dec 2007 10:12

I hear almost all of standards flight at 2FTS are resigning in the first 6 months of next year, and first tour QFIs are being promoted into FLTCDR jobs. The experience drain has well and truly begun.

control snatch 19th Dec 2007 06:13

I hear the retention bonus has recently been signed off on. Can anyone confirm this?

Arm out the window 19th Dec 2007 08:41

How are the other services going for instructors?
The same, I guess - shortages tend to stimulate some uniform-changing where it can be done, so I suppose there'd be a bit of service- and/or country-hopping going on to fill the vacuum?

Roller Merlin 19th Dec 2007 20:46

Can anyone working in the Russell head-shed (and who is not on chrissy leave) inform the basics on the retention bonus?

The $$ difference in stay/go could be significant this time around, as many intended leavers may have to pay up-front for their endorsements if they shifted out.

Loiter1 20th Dec 2007 04:48

Arm out the Window,
If you want an indication of how desperate the experience situation is, just watch 'Real Top Guns' on SBS. You can play spot the aussie instructor while they follow the boggies through 'fighter school'.

control snatch 20th Dec 2007 10:53

Yes the old lateral chestnut.

Although not a problem in itself, it should be indicative of a flawed system when the wing cannot man itself with Aussies.

The problem is laterals come over with ROSO that is eqiavalent in duration to about one tour. After that is up are they going to send a lateral to fill that Tamworth QFI slot? No they will send an aussie bograt with 6 years ROSO left. Aussies get pissed off and leave and therefore we need more laterals to fill the gaps. We are only going to get more before we get less.

Gundog01 22nd Dec 2007 22:21

Laterals....
 
I hear what with you say about laterals. Recently a few left for Saudi as they were going to get posted to 'undesirable' jobs...

L J R 23rd Dec 2007 05:29

Way back in 2001, I wanted the same job and conditions as the 'laterals' and was told that I could not. SO I left (and took my B Cat QFI and 3000Hrs+ with me)...

I will go back if thet really want me, but I suspect that they won't.

Roller Merlin 23rd Dec 2007 21:47

Rumour has it that a RAAF retention bonus will be for a short-term and a relatively small amount (compared to previous years) to plug the growing experience and qualification gap, until the next pay case is presented. This would save CAF from having to go to government for more money to fund a longer term solution, and save some face from his disregarding advice and knocking back a retention bonus in the first place. In a typical short-term hip shot, there would be the appearance of something being done, but it would effectively push the problem onto the the next incumbent. It also assumes the next pay case would address the looming problem of senior pilots leaving.


Given that worldwide and domestic airline recruiting is likely to continue throughout 2008-2009, pilots that desire to leave to fly for an airline would have to weigh a year+ delay in seniority and the possibility of missing out on the desired job / location, against the what is offered. Most of them want lifestyle, location, and long-term prospects that attract to the airline world, so what will a short-term bond do?

control snatch 27th Dec 2007 02:23

Random post to keep thread going.

Also how do we get this thread moved to the other D&G Zone

control snatch 31st Dec 2007 00:17

These pretzels are making me thirsty

Roller Merlin 31st Dec 2007 01:22

Control snatch - if you are serving you will know that nothing new can be forthcoming until late Jan at the earliest, due to the enforced stand-down period. So have a few more pretzel packets handy...

RM

Captain Sand Dune 31st Dec 2007 21:29

..........and since old mate Flick is probably departing mid year, this issue will be delayed until the new guy takes over!:}

FoxtrotAlpha18 1st Jan 2008 21:43


and since old mate Flick is probably departing mid year, this issue will be delayed until the new guy takes over!:}
Just on that, who do you think the next CAF will be? JQ? JB?

Captain Sand Dune 2nd Jan 2008 04:07

Well we could start a book!!:}

My odds would be:

J.Q. 1.5:1
J.B. 3:1


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