Foolish to become a commercial pilot?
Join Date: May 2003
Location: oz
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Its nice that so many of us are so damn optimistic and hopefull, but for christsake at least be realistic. Sure, do a commercial, I don't think I could handle not knowing 'what if', but go in with your eyes wide open.
1) Its going to cost a ****e load of money, these days there wont be much change from $65,000 to get you to a employable position.
2) How much money is it really costing?.Sure initially the $65,000, but what about the $25-$30 grand you will forfeit whilst earning peanuts in G.A that you would have made in ANY other job, plus the money lost on what a $65,000 investment would otherwise yeild. In the end in could easily become a $100,000 to $200,000 gamble over the course of three to four years!!!
3) You WILL loose friends/girlfreinds as you are expected to work weekends (for no renumeration unless you fly) and loose faith in human decency as all and sundry try to get on top, kind of reminds me of a couple of starving dogs fighting over a peice of old meat!
4) You WILL come close to death in ageing and under maintained aicraft in terrible flying conditions.
5) Only a very small minority will make it into the airlines/ regionals.
6) On the other hand if you do make it into the airlines/regionals all these risks and hardships will be more than worth it, if you don't it may well be the worst decision of your life
Not trying to seem to pesimestic it just what I see as the real pros and cons.
1) Its going to cost a ****e load of money, these days there wont be much change from $65,000 to get you to a employable position.
2) How much money is it really costing?.Sure initially the $65,000, but what about the $25-$30 grand you will forfeit whilst earning peanuts in G.A that you would have made in ANY other job, plus the money lost on what a $65,000 investment would otherwise yeild. In the end in could easily become a $100,000 to $200,000 gamble over the course of three to four years!!!
3) You WILL loose friends/girlfreinds as you are expected to work weekends (for no renumeration unless you fly) and loose faith in human decency as all and sundry try to get on top, kind of reminds me of a couple of starving dogs fighting over a peice of old meat!
4) You WILL come close to death in ageing and under maintained aicraft in terrible flying conditions.
5) Only a very small minority will make it into the airlines/ regionals.
6) On the other hand if you do make it into the airlines/regionals all these risks and hardships will be more than worth it, if you don't it may well be the worst decision of your life
Not trying to seem to pesimestic it just what I see as the real pros and cons.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: nz
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Everybody is allowed their say.
Personally I agree with most (worst day flying better than the best office day). Speaking from experience I have been with a GA operator going on three years and I am still casual, given I do get to fly twins around on ATO ops. However the industry does need a huge kick up the
butt.
GA, needs to give a little more to the pilots " your people are your money" meaning if your pilots are happy this will show when a pax needs some info on routes ect, even if it's 30 mins after you have finished work for the day.
I'm not moaning just getting a point across that you all prob agree with.
Just remember the next time you get out of bed @ 5am, that this is what you love and tomorrow you could be dead. SO ENJOY EVEY MOMENT YOU GET, I would rather die after a days flying than after a day locked in an office with a computer an lots of paper work.
Personally I agree with most (worst day flying better than the best office day). Speaking from experience I have been with a GA operator going on three years and I am still casual, given I do get to fly twins around on ATO ops. However the industry does need a huge kick up the
butt.GA, needs to give a little more to the pilots " your people are your money" meaning if your pilots are happy this will show when a pax needs some info on routes ect, even if it's 30 mins after you have finished work for the day.
I'm not moaning just getting a point across that you all prob agree with.
Just remember the next time you get out of bed @ 5am, that this is what you love and tomorrow you could be dead. SO ENJOY EVEY MOMENT YOU GET, I would rather die after a days flying than after a day locked in an office with a computer an lots of paper work.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Victoria
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........or you could join the military and work in the sheltered work environment for a few years, get a book full of good quality hours earning decent pay, and then go for the airline job should you choose.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I am sick of read stuff like this
I hear what you are saying, I have fallen victim to some of this behavior my self , how ever;
My advice to alot of you, be carefull how you jugge others for it is a reflection of how you see your self.
When you say "aviation is full of arseholes" Who is the arsehole? is it you?
Yes I have met arse holes in aviation but the good thing is that all three of them were in the same place.
What other industries have you worked in? are they free from arseholes? I dont think so!
And lastly before i go
May be you should all pull your heads out of your arses act proffessionally yourselfs concentrate on your own flying and not that of others and work together in a TEAM enviornment or should I say MULTI CREW and then aviation will be a good career.
My advice to alot of you, be carefull how you jugge others for it is a reflection of how you see your self.
When you say "aviation is full of arseholes" Who is the arsehole? is it you?
Yes I have met arse holes in aviation but the good thing is that all three of them were in the same place.
What other industries have you worked in? are they free from arseholes? I dont think so!
And lastly before i go
May be you should all pull your heads out of your arses act proffessionally yourselfs concentrate on your own flying and not that of others and work together in a TEAM enviornment or should I say MULTI CREW and then aviation will be a good career.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: YSSY
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Having gone from..FROM aviation to what may have been considered a "****ty" job in an office for 9 hours a day, I sometimes wish I was out flying but I know that tonight I will go home and shag my missus silly, see my family, watch the footy, and on the weekend, I can wake up and go flying, without all the political shyte, all the hype from other pilots with attitude, enjoy the day, rather than be going to WORK tonight be it in an old ill maintained A/C in bad WX for a company I know doesn't really appreciate me...Yes flying is great, dare I say it even better than sex, but hey, it's the flying that's great not the industry, I love flying, I hate the industry, I dont really love my job, but it pays and it gives me a life which in any other industry I'd be denied, I know what I'm happier doing and I won't change it for quids.
AD i'm with you, I got into aviation back in about 97 and i've worked my arse off for my licenses etc, and i've basically seen every mate in aviation get shafted by crap operators, not paid correctly, and basically used and abused....i've got better pay and treatment in a retail operator....it made me really think about my future in aviation, i've since applied and got a job in the public service based upon my life skills, that pays better than a regional f/o or RFDS.......flying is great and I love it, but love doesn't pay the bills...at the end of the day we work to live, not live to work.....it's just sad that aviation seems to **** on all those who love it so much.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: everywhere
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Well said puff,
I love flying as well, hate the bull**** of commercial aviation.
By all means give aviation a go if your young and single, be aware that the love of aviation will decrease as you get older if you don't achieve your goals.
It's not a pretty lifestyle existing on $12,000 a year.
I love flying as well, hate the bull**** of commercial aviation.
By all means give aviation a go if your young and single, be aware that the love of aviation will decrease as you get older if you don't achieve your goals.
It's not a pretty lifestyle existing on $12,000 a year.
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Puff, quite right, I'm not in retail however it is a sales position and I'm easily coming out with at least twice what I earnt when I was in aviation, do I miss it?? sometimes sure, but not when it's time to go home, or out with the family etc...Aus is a weird place, you made a good judgement there, though it seems almost in Australia as a whole we live to work, but in other societies, more relaxed with a much better lifestyle, they work to live...I don't mind crawling out of bed at 5:30 am on a Saturday to go out flying with the family or staying up really late on a Friday night to do the flight plan, I dont mind it, cos it's fun, that's why I love flying.
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Must admit, laying in bed with missus last night and hearing the boys shoot over from BK on their way out for the night, I did have that little bug that said "wish that was me".. rolled over to a faceful of tit and thought with a smile "no i dont!"
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Australia
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There comes a time...
Hey Guys,
I'm seeking some advice and this post looks like it may be able to help me out.
I'm 17 years old and will be completing Year 12 next year. I am studying English, History, Physics, Chemistry and two Maths subjects. I have had a keen interest in aviation since I was about 8 years old, when my father first took me to Tullamarine. Ever since, I've been dead set on having a flight deck as my office.
After attending Avalon in '01, I began to look into aviation careers in the Defence Force. The idea of flying for the forces is very appealing to me, but equally appealing is flying a busload of pax through the skies. Basically, I'm not fussed what I fly (F/A-18, Hercules, B-737, B-200, PA-28, C172... whatever), as long as I grow up to become a pilot - I can see myself very happy.
My question to you is:
Which route do I take? Civilian or Defence Force?
I have investigated both paths, and I think some opinions/comments from those who have experienced it all would be very helpful to me. Obviously, both routes have their advantages and disadvantages. Could anyone enlighten me on their 'way to the top'?
Any comments will be gratefully appreciated!
Thanking you in advance,
Souls.
I'm seeking some advice and this post looks like it may be able to help me out.
I'm 17 years old and will be completing Year 12 next year. I am studying English, History, Physics, Chemistry and two Maths subjects. I have had a keen interest in aviation since I was about 8 years old, when my father first took me to Tullamarine. Ever since, I've been dead set on having a flight deck as my office.
After attending Avalon in '01, I began to look into aviation careers in the Defence Force. The idea of flying for the forces is very appealing to me, but equally appealing is flying a busload of pax through the skies. Basically, I'm not fussed what I fly (F/A-18, Hercules, B-737, B-200, PA-28, C172... whatever), as long as I grow up to become a pilot - I can see myself very happy.
My question to you is:
Which route do I take? Civilian or Defence Force?
I have investigated both paths, and I think some opinions/comments from those who have experienced it all would be very helpful to me. Obviously, both routes have their advantages and disadvantages. Could anyone enlighten me on their 'way to the top'?
Any comments will be gratefully appreciated!
Thanking you in advance,
Souls.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Bye all means pursue aviation with gusto and passion.
The down times can be frustrating and depressing.
I spent many weeks questioning why I got into aviation.
My goal did eventually come true after 16 frustrating months in General Aviation.
Virgin Blue thank you so much.
Best of luck
Geisha Girl
The down times can be frustrating and depressing.
I spent many weeks questioning why I got into aviation.
My goal did eventually come true after 16 frustrating months in General Aviation.
Virgin Blue thank you so much.
Best of luck
Geisha Girl
Join Date: Apr 2003
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i WOULD RATHER EARN $25K P/A AND FLY TO LITTLE DIRT STRIPS, IN AND AROUND THIS AMAZING COUNTRY THAN EARN $60K IN SOME DEAD END JOB, WHERE I DREADED GOING TO WORK EVERYDAY.
iF ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY YOU ARE NOT DOING IT JUST BECAUSE YOU LOVE IT.
DREAMIN
iF ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY YOU ARE NOT DOING IT JUST BECAUSE YOU LOVE IT.
DREAMIN
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
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Something addictive about it.
The sense of acheivement after every flight - its in my veins.
Love nothing more then bringing the machine aver the fence in a huge crosswind - crossing it all up and greasing it on. I just have to contain my joy.
The sense of acheivement after every flight - its in my veins.
Love nothing more then bringing the machine aver the fence in a huge crosswind - crossing it all up and greasing it on. I just have to contain my joy.
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 10th Aug 2003 at 22:01.
Geisha Girl
Congratulations on getting a job with an airline but please don't try and tell everyone how hard GA was for you.
You spent many weeks questioning why you got into aviation - How about the pilots who have been questioning this for several years ?
You say "after 16 frustrating months you eventually got into Virgin Blue ".
I would not call this eventually, I would call it more like "I very quickly and suddenly landed a job with an airline after a very short stay in GA".
How about the pilots who have been in GA for several years or more and still can not get out.
16 months in GA is "very short".
Once again, congrats on the job and consider yourself very lucky for a change.
Congratulations on getting a job with an airline but please don't try and tell everyone how hard GA was for you.
You spent many weeks questioning why you got into aviation - How about the pilots who have been questioning this for several years ?
You say "after 16 frustrating months you eventually got into Virgin Blue ".
I would not call this eventually, I would call it more like "I very quickly and suddenly landed a job with an airline after a very short stay in GA".
How about the pilots who have been in GA for several years or more and still can not get out.
16 months in GA is "very short".
Once again, congrats on the job and consider yourself very lucky for a change.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I've been at it for years and then I meet someone who has been in it for 15 years.
What patience - what perseverence.
*Mr. Hat takes his hat off.*
Mr. Garrison tells him to put it back on.
What patience - what perseverence.
*Mr. Hat takes his hat off.*
Mr. Garrison tells him to put it back on.
Moderatrix
Test Pilot for Annick Goutal
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I think if you have the opportunity to be commissioned in the Defence forces it would be the obvious way to go. You obtain a technical degree, excellent flying and you still have the opportunity to join the airlines at a later stage. Plenty of pilots flying civil are ex-military. This way you could have the best of both worlds.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Follow your dream! I gave up a well-paid non-aviation job to go and fly in the bush for peanuts.
I never looked back.
I woke up every morning with a renewed vigour, just knowing that I might get to go flying.
Don't get misled by idiots though.
GEISHA GIRL has not got into Virgin, and it will probably take you a lot more than 16 months in G.A., but if you are determined, you will make.
It is similar to doing an apprenticeship. That's how I see it.
BW
I never looked back.
I woke up every morning with a renewed vigour, just knowing that I might get to go flying.
Don't get misled by idiots though.
GEISHA GIRL has not got into Virgin, and it will probably take you a lot more than 16 months in G.A., but if you are determined, you will make.
It is similar to doing an apprenticeship. That's how I see it.
BW
Join Date: Dec 2002
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THE ROCKING CHAIR TEST
To fly or not to fly......
Apply a simple little test.
Imagine yourself at 85 sitting in your wheel chair......
Think of yourself looking back on your life. If you don't feel a huge sense of regret and missed "maybes" then flying didn't matter.
If however there is a pang of regret, then stop wasting time and GO FOR IT.
Life is short, go hard or go home (edited for length)
And I so advise
Apply a simple little test.
Imagine yourself at 85 sitting in your wheel chair......
Think of yourself looking back on your life. If you don't feel a huge sense of regret and missed "maybes" then flying didn't matter.
If however there is a pang of regret, then stop wasting time and GO FOR IT.
Life is short, go hard or go home (edited for length)
And I so advise
