What could be achieved in 3 weeks

[farfromoz]

Hi

I'm wondering what could be achieved in 3 weeks fulltime in Oz. I've noticed that in the US there are a plethora of schools offering a PPL in this time. The point of my question is that I'm going to be home in Oz for a few weeks and I'd like to get as close as possible to a PPL in that time. I've emailed one well known school who informed me that full-time students take 4 months to get theirs which seems a long time.

I was thinking that 2-3 hours a day should be achievable, is that an unrealistic assumption? To actually get the PPL in that time it would mean I had done all the study for the theory before I arrived, is it possible to sit the theory exams outside of Australia? I had a look on CASAs www but if makes no mention of it.

It maybe unrealistic to get through the necessary hours in that time and may be require to do some training here in the UK first, but I'd rather spend the ££s in Oz pesos if possible..

FFO

[OzExpat]

I don't know what the situation is these days, but many years ago, the Royal Aero Club at YBSK offerred a 3-weeks course for what used to be called a PPL (Restricted). That gave you the basic licence, including theory exams, but not the navigation component. Any current instructors out there who can provide the current situation?

I doubt that PPL exams can be taken outside of Oz, but I've been out of the loop with Oz rules for a lot of years.

[short fielder]

Far From Oz,

The 4 months full time quoted to you by the flying school was about right.

For a PPL you are looking at upwards of 50 hours training, take into consideration bad weather and aircraft/instructor problems and three weeks is looking too short.

If you set your sights a little lower it wouldn't be impossible to obtain a GFPT (the restricted licence Ozexpat was refering to).

There is no substitute for experience and you gain very little in 3 weeks. I'm biased but I'd say there is a big difference in the skills of an Australian trained pilot to that of a pilot trained in the USA.

If you've only got 3 weeks, learn the basics in Oz and maybe finish your PPL training in the UK at weekends??? Background study before you even get near an aircraft will help you greatly.

Good Luck!

[richie-rich]

Farfromoz
Have you got some hours in your log book? If not, you surely can get your solo in two weeks and if you work hard, pass G.F.P.T by the end of the third week. I have done it during my vacation. So can you. However, for a P.P.L, you might want to extend your holidays for another 4 weeks, finish your navs off, sit the theory, pass the flight test. Bob's ur uncle!

Richie

[farfromoz]

Thanks Guys

I guess I should adjust my expectations to GFPT then. I am considering doing around 10 hours here but it's not clear that they will be counted toward an Oz PPL.. and possibly vicversa with hours in Oz re JAR PPL. Weather will be crap when I come back to the UK at the end of October so wouldn't expect to finish it quickly..

I've got Taits BAK book so hopefully that exam should be out of the way fairly quickly..


FFO

[richie-rich]

Hey Shortfielder

There is no substitute for experience and you gain very little in 3 weeks. I'm biased but I'd say there is a big difference in the skills of an Australian trained pilot to that of a pilot trained in the USA.

Would you care to elucidate on that a bit more? I bet you "are" biased and I do agree to some extent that training in Oz is "comparatively" better than in some states in the U.S, but I would back it up showing weather, size of some flight schools, the pass rates etc as probable causes. I, for once, dont doubt that the U.S offers quality training and I have many friends who have been to various schools out there and have similar knowledge, if not more, theory-wise, than me upon completion of their P.P.L.

I dont intend to start a world-war here. I am inquisitive, as usual, and would like to know your views on this. I am sure you have got your points to establish. Lemme have 'em.



Richie

P:s- Farfromoz, All the best, partner. I strongly suggest that you study that p!ss!ing theory beforehand so that you dont have to waste your days here studying that whereas you could be flying all over. All the best.

[onya]

Farfromoz,
These blokes are leading you up the garden path. I know of 2 guys that finishes their commercial licence in 5 months. Unless the candidate was retarded I can't for the life of me imagine how it could take 4 months for a PPL. 6 weeks fulltime is a realistic expectation, and that includes all your Nav training. What will screw it up is if you are unlucky enough to enlist the services of a flying school that will persist in stuffing you around and hence rip you off. Make a lot of enquiries before you decide on a school and you shouldn't have any problems. Make sure that they have plenty of aircraft available, a number of instructors. And ultimately don't pay a red cent up front. At the end of each day pay your bill. That way it's in their best interests to keep your training going forward. I can't emphasise this enough. You pay the money up front and I'll guarantee they'll screw you around like you got no idea. I did my full PPL in 6 weeks, exams included. Be smart about it mate. It's a ton of fun. But don't let the b@stards rip you off. Only you can make sure that that doesn't happen.

Good luck and enjoy
Onya

[richie-rich]

hey onya

Unless the candidate was retarded I can't for the life of me imagine how it could take 4 months for a PPL

While I would love to have finished my P.P.L off in 6 weeks, it wasnt quite the scenario. I had no problem when it came to scheduling aircrafts for flights or instructor delays. I got my solo in 10 days. G.F.P.T took another 3 weeks. Had to do conversion from SuperGrob to Tobago TB10 which took another whole week followed by series of navs to complete the P.P.L. As you can see, a "realistic" approach, taking weather into consideration would be min. 2 months. It depends if farfromoz needs to do a conversion depending on the aircraft he starts off with. then again, he has to sit with the instructor to do his theory portion which would take another week or so.

I have friends (yes, not just 1!!) who took around 8-10 months to finish their P.P.L off with money flowing in their bank accounts. Those are different cases as they were not serious about the whole training in the first place and lingered when it came to taking the flight test and the theory.

I am not sure where you have done your flight training from, but few friends of mine have done their commercial in 10 months, which is fantastic. I really dont know anyone who has been able to kick P.P.L out of the way as short as 6 weeks.

Maybe there is a way......

Richie

[short fielder]

Richie-Rich,

I haven't got any statistics to back up my claims of the difference in Australian and U.S. training standards. I was just going on what I've previously seen of U.S. training.

I was just thinking along the lines of more challenging navigation, small landing strips and perhaps less than perfect weather.

Some of the time frames that the American schools quote for training are amazing; the three week PPL (with night rating), the one week instrument rating. Some pilots may have the licence but how well do they cope when the sh!t hits the fan?

Onya,

Couldn't agree more with you on being holding back with the money...

I'm impressed with the 5 month CPL, whereabouts was the school that managed that? It must be blessed with great weather...

Short Fielder

[Anti Skid On]

Farfromoz

You can (or used to be able) to do the PPL in Welshpool in the UK in three weeks - Mon - Friday - but they may have gone bust.

You probably could do it in 3, but it is intense. Try doing more than an hour of crosswind circuits solo, and than have to think about the next lesson. It may seem glamourous, but a nice steady pace (IMHO) is much more tolerable (and when I started I was all for racing through!)

Remember, about half of the hours will require a briefing, which may take up the time too, so you may only get a couple of hours per day max. And don't forget the laaaaggg.. that you'll have to recover from.

[farfromoz]

Anti Skid On
3 weeks is about the usable time I have in Oz and thinking that the £ will get more flying time in Oz than the UK. If I had the money to pay for it in the UK I'd do it all here now... I think it will be a certain I'll have a crack at an IR of some sort here afterwards as you know the weather.....

All, thanks again for the feedback.

FFO

[onya]

Hey Richie,

Not a big deal at all to do it 6 weeks. Went solo on my 7th flight. On the third day of my training. Most guys did. Fulltime students that is. The flying school had every flight programmed in for us from the first flight to PPL test. 3 flights a day until you passed the GFPT. Thence PPL theory exam (all self studied- most of us did PPL study on our own at home). Then 7 navs over a two week period for the full PPL. Eighth Nav was a test. If you did good you passed. If not you did a bit more. Looking at my log book I reckon I could've done it even quicker than that. It was all down to good planning, good weather and a can do attitude on the part of the flying school. PPL takes about 50 hours. Spread that out over 4 months (120 days). Less than .5 hours per day. What were you doing?? We all went on to do commercials and some of the guys got thru their MECIR in 2 weeks. They'd already passed the IREX though. It's not that hard to do.
Farfromoz,
Follow my advice above and you'll **** it in.
Good luck and remember to keep the blue UP!!
Onya

[richie-rich]

Hey Onya
nice work, partner! As I have said in one of the earlier posts, there probably is a way or "ways" which I wasnt exposed to. It's true that I had 1 to 2 flights a day and since I started my training in Summer, it got reallly really hot in the middle of the course to fly with all feet glued to the floor.

My setback came when I was asked to do a type-rating for a different aircraft which has longer range compared to the one I was flying before G.F.P.T. Killed a whole week or so on that.

Anyways, since you have done it, so can Farfromoz. If he can pull this off, then way to go!

Richie

[Hasselhof]

It’s all relative innit?!?!

If you want to get your PPL in the minimum time available there are ways and means of enhancing your chances.

First, where?

To get up to speed with class C or D procedures and traffic, particularly at busy aerodromes (yes, well aware that not all C and D's are busy, and some OCTA are) will obviously take more time than if you are training at a flying school based within a regional CTAF or Multi-com. More complexity means more hours will mean more $$$ however, will the simplicity of our class G airports put you in good stead for the incredibly cramped airspace of the UK? Dollars saved here could lead to dollars spent there (at roughly double to triple the hourly rate… enjoy!)

Second, what?

What sort of aircraft you learn to fly in could make all the difference in how quickly it takes to earn your PPL. Handling characteristics such as the differences between a C152 and C172 could mean a few hours extra during circuit training. Old beat up training machines would theoretically (and practically) be less reliable and may not always be available when you need to fly during your short stint here.

Third, who?

Who are you doing your training with? If you are going to go for a regional airport due to less traffic, you may have to accept that they will have fewer instructors to dedicate to your needs. If they are already busy, they will have to share their workload with their present students as well as you. I'm not going to even touch on the differences in quality of instructing...

Fourth, when?

Seasonal differences in weather patterns could make quite a difference in how long it takes to get your training done. You might have your heart seat on flying the tropics, but Cairns, Townsville and Darwin all get pretty wet at certain times of the year. Same goes for down south. A bit of research could allow you to enhance the time you have over here.

Other things to investigate before you arrive should include the requirements for converting your licence to the country of your origin, and what you can count as credit (if any) to a PPL in your own country if you are unable to complete the training while here.

Oh, and order some Australian text books NOW and get into the study well before you arrive, it will save time when you get here. Bob Tait writes some great books, and the Aviation Theory Centre have Student Pilot Kits, either of which would make an invaluable investment.

For my money, I’d see if I could get an extra bit of time to ensure that you are getting value for your dollar/pound/euro as well as a PPL, or if time is too restrictive, go for the GFPT and try to get credit back in the UK. Good luck whichever way you go, and enjoy it while you’re down here.

[farfromoz]

Hasselhof

Thanks for the thoughts, precisely the sort of thing I was looking for.. to answer your questions..
1. Bankstown looked to be the best choice, I figured the busier the better and larger schools with bigger fleets
2. Good point, I think that Richie-rich elluded to that same point and has made me consider it as a factor wrt further training here(UK). Maybe smart to select the school here that I think I'll finish with and use their aircraft fleet as a determinant for my Oz school selection.
3. Contacted an operator at Bankstown already (which resulted in this post), not settled on anyone as yet but I was hoping by giving a few months warning of my requirements I may be able to block book, although they would almost certainly want payment in advance for that..
4. Another good point, I'll have to check that out. My memories of Sydney in October are of mostly fine days with occasional showers..

Might not have made it clear but I'm Australian, the JAR thing is so I'd be able to fly to Europe in a G reg aircraft. I believe there is little problem in hiring in UK with Oz PPL. The requirements for conversion depend on hours and essentially I'd have to do a skills test and sit the theory exams (all 7!!!) which is fair enough. I know what you mean about the time, just can't spare more than 4 weeks off work..

FFO

[Colonel Blink]

Welshpool

FFO check this link - they do JAA PPL ffor GBP 2650 = about $6500 aussie. Now deduct the 700 getting to Aus and you're down to two grand or $5000. Migth be worth a look before the end of summer over there.