Wanky resumes
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Kaptin, before you seemed astoniished by my 5 ATPLs
Astonished, Winstun? Not at all - by the standard of your posts, I read that reference to "5 ATPL's" to mean you were still studying 5 ATPL subjects.
In other words, you may (or may not) have a basic CPL, and (you) are attempting to pass your ATPL theory.
Are you, in fact, implying that you hold 5 Airline Transport Pilot Licences?
If so, I apologise for the misunderstanding. From which countries? And on what types are you rated ?
Astonished, Winstun? Not at all - by the standard of your posts, I read that reference to "5 ATPL's" to mean you were still studying 5 ATPL subjects.
In other words, you may (or may not) have a basic CPL, and (you) are attempting to pass your ATPL theory.
Are you, in fact, implying that you hold 5 Airline Transport Pilot Licences?
If so, I apologise for the misunderstanding. From which countries? And on what types are you rated ?
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you hold 5 Airline Transport Pilot Licences?
I apologise for the misunderstanding
From which countries? And on what types are you rated ?
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ermmmm....where did the 'GA' reference come from?
My PRIMARY employment is in an industry apart from aviation. Dunno that there would BE a GA company with 2000 odd employees....but that doesn't detract from the truth of my advice.
Again, my advice is to supply to the employer what he asks for. If you apply to me, I will ask for a Resume, and if you meet the mandatory and specific selection criteria, I will ask for a comprehensive CV. Fair enough?
Winstun, I do not propose to debate with you; I enjoy intellectual conversation and it appears unlikely that I'll see any of that from you. From the Desiderata: "Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit".
Cheers all.
My PRIMARY employment is in an industry apart from aviation. Dunno that there would BE a GA company with 2000 odd employees....but that doesn't detract from the truth of my advice.
Again, my advice is to supply to the employer what he asks for. If you apply to me, I will ask for a Resume, and if you meet the mandatory and specific selection criteria, I will ask for a comprehensive CV. Fair enough?
Winstun, I do not propose to debate with you; I enjoy intellectual conversation and it appears unlikely that I'll see any of that from you. From the Desiderata: "Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit".
Cheers all.
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Absolute rubbish. Tell him he's dreamin. To all aspiring applicants. Do not be fooled. There is NEVER a requirement for a 'comprehensive cv'. A 1 PAGE resume will sufficiently contain all your relevant qualifications, achievements and experience. By all means, take a folder with your certificates and references. The employer is looking for a person, not an autobiography. Does this guy work for the government? Am I his involuntary employer? 
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This isn't wanky but I remember seeing these details filled out on an application form...
Name : Joe Bloggs
Marital Status : Good
The applicant was either green or a comedian. I guess you could interpret "good" either way.
Name : Joe Bloggs
Marital Status : Good
The applicant was either green or a comedian. I guess you could interpret "good" either way.
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A 1 PAGE resume will sufficiently contain all your relevant qualifications, achievements and experience.
Suggestions?
F
t
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I've got to agree with the premise that a resume is short and concise, whereas a CV would be extended including pertinent details of previous work and would include relevant qualifications.
Like others here, I've been in management positions for a number of years and been involved in recruitment of staff. What I would expect, unless the ad specifically requests full information, is a resume with the initial application. This allows me to short list based on the information provided. From there applicants will either be completing a set of selection criteria, or I would request their CV. This would then allow me to short list for interviews at which time I would be "checking" the information previously provided.
If anyone out there expects to be hired on the basis of one or two pages, then I think they are dreaming, or the employer does'nt really care about anything except qualifications.
Like others here, I've been in management positions for a number of years and been involved in recruitment of staff. What I would expect, unless the ad specifically requests full information, is a resume with the initial application. This allows me to short list based on the information provided. From there applicants will either be completing a set of selection criteria, or I would request their CV. This would then allow me to short list for interviews at which time I would be "checking" the information previously provided.
If anyone out there expects to be hired on the basis of one or two pages, then I think they are dreaming, or the employer does'nt really care about anything except qualifications.
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Nonsense. A 1 PAGE resume can contain all the pertinent details of previous work and relevant qualifications. And that is valid right up to CEO positions. Even with many qualifications and extensive experience - as in my case - you just have to be smart, brief and concise. I would appreciate some insight and example into what drivel some here are pasting on to 10 to 30 page CVs. You don't get hired based on a document, it's the interview. 
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
C'mon Winstun don't be shy - you just lurve telling us all of your "many qualifications and extensive experience.
WHAT are they?
What types are you rated on?
For which 5 countries do you hold ATPL`s ?
What does your "extensive experience" consist of?
You've been ramming your supposed super status down our collective PPRuNe throats. Time to put up.
Methinks it's just another loud~mouthed Septic Tank!
WHAT are they?
What types are you rated on?
For which 5 countries do you hold ATPL`s ?
What does your "extensive experience" consist of?
You've been ramming your supposed super status down our collective PPRuNe throats. Time to put up.
Methinks it's just another loud~mouthed Septic Tank!
And there is a senior GA pilot out there in the industry with 747-400 observation time on his CV.
Was in the flightdeck for a while on a holiday to europe and return I believe.
I kid you not.
Was in the flightdeck for a while on a holiday to europe and return I believe.
I kid you not.
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Wind up alert
This is getting interesting.
An increasing number of companies in Oz use staffcv.com, including the one I work for.
Filling out an application with them is what I'd call asking for "comprehensive" information. If you choose to leave information incomplete, then you increase your chances of being passed over.
That's the unfortunate result of technology and applying for jobs "online".
When you take a look at what comes out at the employers end when they "pull your file", it can add up to several pages of data, or only one, depending on specifically what information the employer is looking for from your application.
All applicants to my company are expected to provide a comprehensive CV at interview, which is reviewed with the candidate at that time.
Generally, the physical size of an applicant's CV is a combination of how long the candidate has been in the workforce, along with the number of jobs he or she has worked and how concisely the material has been entered. I think that "conciseness" has the greater bearing on the overall size of the CV (as others have alluded to here).
I'm not trying to sound "ageist" here, but generally I would expect a CV from a 40+ year old to contain a few more pages than that of, say an 18 year old school leaver. And in fact that has consistently been my experience with recruiting staff (both outside and within the aviation industry).
Horses for courses
An increasing number of companies in Oz use staffcv.com, including the one I work for.
Filling out an application with them is what I'd call asking for "comprehensive" information. If you choose to leave information incomplete, then you increase your chances of being passed over.
That's the unfortunate result of technology and applying for jobs "online".
When you take a look at what comes out at the employers end when they "pull your file", it can add up to several pages of data, or only one, depending on specifically what information the employer is looking for from your application.
All applicants to my company are expected to provide a comprehensive CV at interview, which is reviewed with the candidate at that time.
Generally, the physical size of an applicant's CV is a combination of how long the candidate has been in the workforce, along with the number of jobs he or she has worked and how concisely the material has been entered. I think that "conciseness" has the greater bearing on the overall size of the CV (as others have alluded to here).
I'm not trying to sound "ageist" here, but generally I would expect a CV from a 40+ year old to contain a few more pages than that of, say an 18 year old school leaver. And in fact that has consistently been my experience with recruiting staff (both outside and within the aviation industry).
Horses for courses
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Well, it seems that I may be incorrect in assuming Australian recruitment practise has progressed into the new age, along with the rest of the world (possible exception of its mother country). Maybe wishful thinking on my part that these pedantic anglo archaic behaviours had ceased long ago. Overkill. Kind of like requiring flight engineers on a B767, gawd. Kaptin, no not American, although frankly it would be less embarissing than being associated with loud mouthed Aussies, I frequently hide from roaming the world. I have never claimed any super status, that is your perception, your inferiority complex. I have only stated my qualifications when previously questioned whether I was a qualified pilot. I am typed in bizjets: 4 light, 2 midsize, 1 large, airliners: 2 light, 1 heavy. My 5 ATPLs include Australia, USA, and 3 others (1 conversion and all confidential for financial considerations). I have had 2 other conversion ATPLs but are now invalid. "Many qualifications and extensive experience" was just my example that a 1 PAGE resume is viable. I have >10000 hours in aviation and several other professions and interests, I am not going into it. I am not responding directly to your drivel. My only concern is that your many misunderstandings may be misinterpreted by the viewers as correct.
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Besides the fact i agree with winstun, how is it possible he's wrong, it's his opinion, and fair enough.
if a ten page resume came across my desk it would not be given a terrible lot of consideration, i could read 15 of the other 300 odd applicatants resumes in the same time.
the airlines might require CV's, so be it, but this by no means demeans the value of an easily digested 1 page resume, thats what i think.
if a ten page resume came across my desk it would not be given a terrible lot of consideration, i could read 15 of the other 300 odd applicatants resumes in the same time.
the airlines might require CV's, so be it, but this by no means demeans the value of an easily digested 1 page resume, thats what i think.
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Definitely one of the better posts on this board for a long time. A few interesting points have been raised, but I have to agree with Winstun and disagree with Dr.Phil; one page will suffice. You should be able to clearly and concisely put on one sheet of paper your experience in aviation as well as additional RELEVANT information. I did, and it got me my first starts in aviation, as well as my previous jobs in education and management.
At my last job, I was shown a CV from a young (18 y.o.) wannabe. The gender is irrelevant but the person used a page each for their huge A5-size photo printed out onto paper, a page containing the words Curriculum Vitae and then a blank page before launching into school achievements, flight experience etc.
The most laughable part was when references were cited. Normally one does not include the actual reference with a CV/Resume, for obvious reasons. The person in question cited two individuals, one a 747 Captain and the other the CFI at the RACWA. And there at the back were the references; the first referee turned out to be the uncle of the candidate - so much for objectivity! The second referee wasn't the CFI, but the aunt of the candidate, a BAe146 F/O; oh dear, lack of consistency methinks.
Needless to say it made the bin!!
My own personal experience in GA has shown that the initial cover letter and resume, followed by a phone call and finally a visit is the way to go. Who cares if you're the captain of the Debating team? But are you prepared to slug it out in the bush for crap money? Actually visitiing the company is the first step to showing the boss that you are! If you don't make it in one particular year, then by showing up again the next year definitely impresses. Chief Pilots/owners do have memories.
At my last job, I was shown a CV from a young (18 y.o.) wannabe. The gender is irrelevant but the person used a page each for their huge A5-size photo printed out onto paper, a page containing the words Curriculum Vitae and then a blank page before launching into school achievements, flight experience etc.
The most laughable part was when references were cited. Normally one does not include the actual reference with a CV/Resume, for obvious reasons. The person in question cited two individuals, one a 747 Captain and the other the CFI at the RACWA. And there at the back were the references; the first referee turned out to be the uncle of the candidate - so much for objectivity! The second referee wasn't the CFI, but the aunt of the candidate, a BAe146 F/O; oh dear, lack of consistency methinks.
Needless to say it made the bin!!
My own personal experience in GA has shown that the initial cover letter and resume, followed by a phone call and finally a visit is the way to go. Who cares if you're the captain of the Debating team? But are you prepared to slug it out in the bush for crap money? Actually visitiing the company is the first step to showing the boss that you are! If you don't make it in one particular year, then by showing up again the next year definitely impresses. Chief Pilots/owners do have memories.
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Winstun. Good to see the mob coming behind and nipping at your ankles. Your previous comments on the 1737 thread showed you up for the tosser that you are.
I reckon youd be lucky to even own a log book! Let alone have any hour to log in it!
I reckon youd be lucky to even own a log book! Let alone have any hour to log in it!
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Not wanting to get picky but I have really only ever had one resume/cv that is tailored to the job I am applying for, aviation or otherwise. It's generally about 3 pages and contains nearly all information and a history of the type of work done at various places of employment.
This brings me to my point, accoding to one of our dictionaries i get the following:
RESUME: n - a summing up, a summary.
CURRICULUM VITAE: a brief account of ones career to date.
Now, a 30 page CV hardly seems brief to me. It would seem as though the two would be interchangable and can vary in length as needed to suit the position.
My thoughts
Twin
This brings me to my point, accoding to one of our dictionaries i get the following:
RESUME: n - a summing up, a summary.
CURRICULUM VITAE: a brief account of ones career to date.
Now, a 30 page CV hardly seems brief to me. It would seem as though the two would be interchangable and can vary in length as needed to suit the position.
My thoughts
Twin
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Twin NDB, try condensing to 1 PAGE and see how you like the look. LRT, airlines DO NOT require 'CVs'!!
Your previous comments on the 1737 thread showed you up for the tosser that you are.
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How come Binos got his posts nicked for calling someone a tosser when everyone else seems to be doing the same?
FWIW, I hate paperwork so I'd be looking for a one page overview and a talk with the chap/chapette to fill out the details. I'd rather hire for ability and bias it with the thought that I might have to work with the person, so it should be someone I - and the rest of the team - can get on with. Not that I'd be looking for a clone or a friend, just someone with a personality.
My understanding is that Churchill told the D-Day planners to put something on paper and it had better fit on one page.
FWIW, I hate paperwork so I'd be looking for a one page overview and a talk with the chap/chapette to fill out the details. I'd rather hire for ability and bias it with the thought that I might have to work with the person, so it should be someone I - and the rest of the team - can get on with. Not that I'd be looking for a clone or a friend, just someone with a personality.
My understanding is that Churchill told the D-Day planners to put something on paper and it had better fit on one page.