cost of cyberexams
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 44
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cost of cyberexams
It may be becasue I am a bit peeved after just having failed atpl systems and nav - and for the life of me could not work out a ) what some of the questions were asking and therefore got them wrong, and b) had to wait 2 weeks after doing AFT Systems course ( studying my ass off ) because the CASA cyberexams system failed at the time we were meant to do the test...
But has anyone ever complained to the ombudsman as Rob Avery has suggested, or a local MP about the charges for these exams??
What was the response??
I wrote to ASL and they blamed CASA, then I wrote to CASA and they blamed ASL....
I know this is topic has been done to death - but my funds are rapidly dwindelling, I am sick of the responses from CASA, I can't think of why the charges would be so high, and I would like to know if anything happened..
cheers everyone.
But has anyone ever complained to the ombudsman as Rob Avery has suggested, or a local MP about the charges for these exams??
What was the response??
I wrote to ASL and they blamed CASA, then I wrote to CASA and they blamed ASL....
I know this is topic has been done to death - but my funds are rapidly dwindelling, I am sick of the responses from CASA, I can't think of why the charges would be so high, and I would like to know if anything happened..
cheers everyone.
"CASA cyberexams system failed at the time we were meant to do the test..."
Was that a couple of weeks ago?
Was the failure at CASA - or in the ASL Brisbane system?
Were you fed some cr@p about "missing the slot" and coming back in a few weeks to re sit the exam?
You must excuse the ambiguity, double negatives etc which are built into ATPL exam questions. It's a little game which has always been played by "he who writes the questions". Seems a common problem amongst those with a law degree!
Was that a couple of weeks ago?
Was the failure at CASA - or in the ASL Brisbane system?
Were you fed some cr@p about "missing the slot" and coming back in a few weeks to re sit the exam?
You must excuse the ambiguity, double negatives etc which are built into ATPL exam questions. It's a little game which has always been played by "he who writes the questions". Seems a common problem amongst those with a law degree!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 44
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cyberexams
wasn't fed that line - though we did have to contact ASL ourselves to rebook
not sure about brissie - but basically CASA and ASL blamed each other.... I am happy to admit that it is a case of sour grapes... but can we possibly get any more f*&^ed over in this industry?
What will they do next??... jack the cost of our licences up by 600% just because a photo is on it?
not sure about brissie - but basically CASA and ASL blamed each other.... I am happy to admit that it is a case of sour grapes... but can we possibly get any more f*&^ed over in this industry?
What will they do next??... jack the cost of our licences up by 600% just because a photo is on it?
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Under the Equator
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just want to know how ASL was appointed in the first place.
I can not recall any tender etc.
The same system could be delivered at a cheaper rate by existing flying schools/aero clubs and theory providers.
They already have the system in place for PPL/PAOS/PIFR.
They already have the facilities in place.
The result is that CPL students pay up to $300-500 more than what they should and valuable income is lost to Schools/Aero Clubs and theory providers.
Anyone know how long the ASL contract is?. Terms & Conditions?.
I can not recall any tender etc.
The same system could be delivered at a cheaper rate by existing flying schools/aero clubs and theory providers.
They already have the system in place for PPL/PAOS/PIFR.
They already have the facilities in place.
The result is that CPL students pay up to $300-500 more than what they should and valuable income is lost to Schools/Aero Clubs and theory providers.
Anyone know how long the ASL contract is?. Terms & Conditions?.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
aero979, I just got a newsletter from ASL that puts the blame entirely on CASA. they also state that due to a few considerations some people could be eligable for a free resit. log on to the ASL site and have a peekaboo at the news page, should be something on there. As for the questions being ambiguose(sp?) thats how they play mate. I have yet to sit an exam designed by CASA that was testing the actual knowledge I had on the subject I was being examined on....... more like they are testing your interpretation and language skills. (just what you want to be tested on after learning all about aerodynamics and ops and performance for the last four weeks.)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 44
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah I know that is the way it is wizard - the response I got was that it would cost " millions of dollars of taxpayers' money " to install a redundancy system incase of the system failing... what a joke.. its funny how you have to learn about the redundancy in a jet liner until your brain almost explodes... but they can't deliver a system that has a simple backup one in place.
I know where I work - which is an International Company, if our computer system crashes they flick a switch and another one takes over.
I was interested to see if anyone had taken Rob Avery's advice... it is always said it is better to act and not just sit back and cop it...
I got the free resit but was pushing for a little more...
I know where I work - which is an International Company, if our computer system crashes they flick a switch and another one takes over.
I was interested to see if anyone had taken Rob Avery's advice... it is always said it is better to act and not just sit back and cop it...
I got the free resit but was pushing for a little more...
I think the old written-answer exams were better for 'non-ambiguousness'. The ones where your working was marked, not just your final answer.
You would be given a scenario eg plan a flight from A to B to C. All Wx, flight plan forms, NOTAMs etc were included and away you went armed with necessary information. The method used was irrelevent as long as the process could be seen and it generated the correct results.
Rather like what we really do when planning a flight...
The catch of course is that a person has to mark the working using a marking guide, instead of a glorified barcode reader or a comparison algorithm in software.
I've long considered multi-choice to be a poorer way of assessing a person's knowledge. Even if they have no idea whatsoever there's always the 1:3, 1:4 or 1:5 chance of guessing the response. With small (but inadequate) level of knowledge then eliminating clearly wrong options can dramatically increase the odds.
It's also possible to answer correctly because the answers are presented in front of the candidate. That opens up answers to 'recognition' level learning instead of the desired 'recall' level. How often have you been unable to remember something, only to remember as soon as mentioned to you?
You would be given a scenario eg plan a flight from A to B to C. All Wx, flight plan forms, NOTAMs etc were included and away you went armed with necessary information. The method used was irrelevent as long as the process could be seen and it generated the correct results.
Rather like what we really do when planning a flight...
The catch of course is that a person has to mark the working using a marking guide, instead of a glorified barcode reader or a comparison algorithm in software.
I've long considered multi-choice to be a poorer way of assessing a person's knowledge. Even if they have no idea whatsoever there's always the 1:3, 1:4 or 1:5 chance of guessing the response. With small (but inadequate) level of knowledge then eliminating clearly wrong options can dramatically increase the odds.
It's also possible to answer correctly because the answers are presented in front of the candidate. That opens up answers to 'recognition' level learning instead of the desired 'recall' level. How often have you been unable to remember something, only to remember as soon as mentioned to you?
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you have to love those questions that have two right answers but apparently one is more right than the other.
If they wanted to test my knowledge of a subject they should be asking questions in a manner that is straight forward and directly relevent to the knowlege being examened. why do thety try to trick you into the wrong answer? load of rubbish I think. I agree with Tinstaafl, we should go back to the old written exams.
If they wanted to test my knowledge of a subject they should be asking questions in a manner that is straight forward and directly relevent to the knowlege being examened. why do thety try to trick you into the wrong answer? load of rubbish I think. I agree with Tinstaafl, we should go back to the old written exams.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The ATPLs used to cost $100 dollars for 7 credits - no booking fees etc.
If you passed 6 of the 7 you pay another $100 dollars and you can sit the final exam 7 times.
on average is would cost around $200 - $300 dollars to complete your ATPL's
I am so glad I did all my ATPL's in the old system, the new system seems like a money making machine.
At least when you pass the ATPL's here in Australia you feel like you have achieved something.
I was in the USA not long ago, and the system there is a joke. You can buy a book with the FAA question bank in there, so all you have to do is remember the correct answers and you will usually come out with 90% or more (depending on how good your memory is). No study is required which is a bit worrying.
If you passed 6 of the 7 you pay another $100 dollars and you can sit the final exam 7 times.
on average is would cost around $200 - $300 dollars to complete your ATPL's
I am so glad I did all my ATPL's in the old system, the new system seems like a money making machine.
At least when you pass the ATPL's here in Australia you feel like you have achieved something.
I was in the USA not long ago, and the system there is a joke. You can buy a book with the FAA question bank in there, so all you have to do is remember the correct answers and you will usually come out with 90% or more (depending on how good your memory is). No study is required which is a bit worrying.
The US system isn't a joke. Granted, the exam is easy but in Oz you don't get grilled for a couple of hours about ATPL ops when you do the mandatory ATP flight test.
Interesting the perception of what the 'old' system was. When I refer to the 'old' system, I'm talking about:
* 6 CPL exams @ AU$0.75 each: All working must be submitted with marks assigned for each part of the calculation process. If you gave the correct answer but without the working you'd fail the question.
Aeroplane Performance & operation. Written answers. Includes 'Milk run' problems which don't seem to be in the syllabus any more. Which reminds me, are graphical & mathematical rebalancing problems still in?
Navigation: Written + chart logging. Usual plotting/track corrections etc.
Met: Part written, part multi-choice.
Engines & systems: Multi-choice. Very straight forward questions I recall.
Principles of Flight: Multi-choice. Ditto straight forward Q's.
Air Law: Multi choice. The catch was that there was a closed book section (done first) so must know the rules & then the open book for more obscure things.
ATPL: 4 exams @ AU$2.10 each. Unfortunately for me they'd gone up to about $20 or $30 each when I got aorund to each of them. Should have done them earlier... Again, all working must be submitted.
Flight Planning: Written. Lots & lots of working! 2 questions in the whole exam, a ground based 'plan a flight from A-B, here's the weather etc..., and an inflight replan. Ground plan was ~60-70 marks, replan was the remainder.
Navigation: Written. Lots of working/plotting, including off-track PNRs
Met: Part written/part multi choice.
Air Law: Multi-choice. Straight forward if you knew your way around the ANRs(CARs) /ANOs (CAOs) / AIP / IALs & TMAs (DAPs)
Since then there have been about 4(?) or more exam 'systems' in place.
Interesting the perception of what the 'old' system was. When I refer to the 'old' system, I'm talking about:
* 6 CPL exams @ AU$0.75 each: All working must be submitted with marks assigned for each part of the calculation process. If you gave the correct answer but without the working you'd fail the question.
Aeroplane Performance & operation. Written answers. Includes 'Milk run' problems which don't seem to be in the syllabus any more. Which reminds me, are graphical & mathematical rebalancing problems still in?
Navigation: Written + chart logging. Usual plotting/track corrections etc.
Met: Part written, part multi-choice.
Engines & systems: Multi-choice. Very straight forward questions I recall.
Principles of Flight: Multi-choice. Ditto straight forward Q's.
Air Law: Multi choice. The catch was that there was a closed book section (done first) so must know the rules & then the open book for more obscure things.
ATPL: 4 exams @ AU$2.10 each. Unfortunately for me they'd gone up to about $20 or $30 each when I got aorund to each of them. Should have done them earlier... Again, all working must be submitted.
Flight Planning: Written. Lots & lots of working! 2 questions in the whole exam, a ground based 'plan a flight from A-B, here's the weather etc..., and an inflight replan. Ground plan was ~60-70 marks, replan was the remainder.
Navigation: Written. Lots of working/plotting, including off-track PNRs
Met: Part written/part multi choice.
Air Law: Multi-choice. Straight forward if you knew your way around the ANRs(CARs) /ANOs (CAOs) / AIP / IALs & TMAs (DAPs)
Since then there have been about 4(?) or more exam 'systems' in place.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ASL is the most non-industry friendly organisation!!
I was meant to sit my flight planning (ATPL) exam, but was told that I had to work that day (given 12 hours notice!).
I tried to transfer it to another day, but they said, even though I was prepared to pay the transfer fee, that I had to forfeit the CASA fee and the exam fee because I hadn't given them four days notice!!
I have come to the conclusion that this exam system is purely for the university students amongst us and for those who can afford to tell their boss to to stick their days work you know where. I don't fir into eother of these categories.
Casa needs to pull their finger out and do something about it. Knowing casa, they probably signed a 5 year deal or something with asl...so they can't do anything!
Chieftain
I was meant to sit my flight planning (ATPL) exam, but was told that I had to work that day (given 12 hours notice!).
I tried to transfer it to another day, but they said, even though I was prepared to pay the transfer fee, that I had to forfeit the CASA fee and the exam fee because I hadn't given them four days notice!!
I have come to the conclusion that this exam system is purely for the university students amongst us and for those who can afford to tell their boss to to stick their days work you know where. I don't fir into eother of these categories.
Casa needs to pull their finger out and do something about it. Knowing casa, they probably signed a 5 year deal or something with asl...so they can't do anything!
Chieftain
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 44
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cost
sorry - so as i have failed a couple and will need to pay their stupid $100 sitting fee again, does this mean i will get another 7 credits?? or have to pay $100 for each resit??
anyone out there a local council member by any chance?
anyone out there a local council member by any chance?
