QF638 go-around and diversion at YBBN
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When I initially posted all I had heard about the situation was that the a/c went around due to unexpected repairs being carried out on the rwy, ie; the crew were not informed or knew of the repair work. Hence my post, as I wanted to find out the truth.
Cruz Power: Grow Up. Check your private messages as I refuse to get into a personal attack on a public forum. God help us all if anyone else subscribes to your level and opinion of safety. Excuse me for being an ignorant and arrogant ass in thinking that the pax also paid for the crews' expertise and professionalism.
Couldn't agree more with Eastwest Loco and Metro Man. Great to see "professional" pilots giving good advice and information - isn't that a big purpose of this forum?
My gripe is as per many others... the damn pond scum journos beating up a story from "Dick" the passenger. Hats off to the QF crew for a professional job. Only hassle for QF seems to be a customer relations issue. But what could they do at that time of night?
Cruz Power: Grow Up. Check your private messages as I refuse to get into a personal attack on a public forum. God help us all if anyone else subscribes to your level and opinion of safety. Excuse me for being an ignorant and arrogant ass in thinking that the pax also paid for the crews' expertise and professionalism.
Couldn't agree more with Eastwest Loco and Metro Man. Great to see "professional" pilots giving good advice and information - isn't that a big purpose of this forum?
My gripe is as per many others... the damn pond scum journos beating up a story from "Dick" the passenger. Hats off to the QF crew for a professional job. Only hassle for QF seems to be a customer relations issue. But what could they do at that time of night?
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On the same evening news was a 15 second piece on a NSW Air Ambulance King Air that REPORTEDLY dragged the dunlops on the breakwall at Coffs Harbour.
If my memory serves me correctly, the breakwall at Coffs is a reasonable distance from the aerodrome and any aircraft that is low enough to ripp the left main gear off is a much more significant story I would have thought !.
Sounds like its a standard media beatup - Anyone know the real story ? Have the RFDS taken over yet ?? - Noticed that the rego and perhaps some kind of logo on the tail was covered up !
If my memory serves me correctly, the breakwall at Coffs is a reasonable distance from the aerodrome and any aircraft that is low enough to ripp the left main gear off is a much more significant story I would have thought !.
Sounds like its a standard media beatup - Anyone know the real story ? Have the RFDS taken over yet ?? - Noticed that the rego and perhaps some kind of logo on the tail was covered up !
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661 KTAS,
This is being discussed on another post.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=90068
This is being discussed on another post.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=90068
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EWL,
Pretty well summed up mate.
And no,they don't have airstairs.
My thoughts on "journalists" have been previously aired.
Bunch of #ankers!!!
Must be a bloody slow news day when a simple weather diversion makes the six o'clock news.
Get a life you idiots !
As someone else has said you are slipping the boot in to an industry already on it's knees due SARS.
Pretty well summed up mate.
And no,they don't have airstairs.
My thoughts on "journalists" have been previously aired.
Bunch of #ankers!!!
Must be a bloody slow news day when a simple weather diversion makes the six o'clock news.
Get a life you idiots !
As someone else has said you are slipping the boot in to an industry already on it's knees due SARS.
Swounger
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re sitting on the runway, this happened to me on Delta at MCO a few years ago. It was evening, the plane was late incoming, and I, even though I'm not a pilot, knew that the crew was about to exceed their permitted work time before they go back to LGA. They didn't tell us anything. Don't know why. We hadn't left the gate, but they still didn't let us off for a few hours, until the permitted time had expired.
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Aircraft go around every day for various reasons.
Nobody gives those " I Thought I Was Going To Die"interviews because no one sticks a microphone under their nose, because nobody gives a sh*t.
The SLF get a microphone in front of them and want to play the game. The media are interested therefore they must have just had a life threatening experience.
Ho Hum. Just another day at the coalface at QF.
Nobody gives those " I Thought I Was Going To Die"interviews because no one sticks a microphone under their nose, because nobody gives a sh*t.
The SLF get a microphone in front of them and want to play the game. The media are interested therefore they must have just had a life threatening experience.
Ho Hum. Just another day at the coalface at QF.
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Given the disgraceful way the media acts when a 'routine' aviation situation occurs.
How would the media act if (heaven forbid) a real avaition emergency occured.
Frank Sinatra summed up the Australian Media pretty well a couple of decades ago - during a down under visit.
He described them as being 'whores & pimps'.
How would the media act if (heaven forbid) a real avaition emergency occured.
Frank Sinatra summed up the Australian Media pretty well a couple of decades ago - during a down under visit.
He described them as being 'whores & pimps'.
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You can bet if the Media Boffins stuck a mic under the nose of a punter after all this and they said something along the lines of "Nahh it was all cool mate, No Worries" then they would drop em like a hot potato and go and find someone who's can give em what they want.
"Ah excuse me!! Was anybody's life in danger? Want your friends to see you on the news? Step this way!!"
Clowns- all of em
Tixy
"Ah excuse me!! Was anybody's life in danger? Want your friends to see you on the news? Step this way!!"
Clowns- all of em
Tixy
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Just a couple of questions -
a/ with the WX forecast for BNE, surely the Captain had enough fuel aboard for many more than ONE approach!
b/ why did he only carry out ONE approach, why not hold for a few minutes and try again, it's not a long way from Brisbane to Tamworth!
c/ when the aircraft is parked on the tarmac at Tamworth, why can't the pax get off and stretch their legs, and who could stop anyone anyway. When I fly as a pax I am not a prisoner of the crew, if I want to get off in that circumstance, I should be allowed to do so!!
These planning details would have been predictable before he left MEL, even for a not-so-experienced (usually) B737 Captain, surely he's seen this sort of stuff before!!
Cheers
a/ with the WX forecast for BNE, surely the Captain had enough fuel aboard for many more than ONE approach!
b/ why did he only carry out ONE approach, why not hold for a few minutes and try again, it's not a long way from Brisbane to Tamworth!
c/ when the aircraft is parked on the tarmac at Tamworth, why can't the pax get off and stretch their legs, and who could stop anyone anyway. When I fly as a pax I am not a prisoner of the crew, if I want to get off in that circumstance, I should be allowed to do so!!
These planning details would have been predictable before he left MEL, even for a not-so-experienced (usually) B737 Captain, surely he's seen this sort of stuff before!!
Cheers
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Perhaps I'm missing something here in respect to Metro's posting re his scenario 1 & 2?
Unless I read you wrong Metro, you're suggesting that you would depart A for C, with the legally required fuel, and then when over or abeam C would determine if you had enough fuel to go to B (which is where you really are supposed to be going) and then change your flight plan and go there!
OR (scenario 2)
When over or abeam C if you don't have sufficient fuel to go to B (which is where you are really supposed to be going) then you simply land at C much to the surprise of the cretins down the back!
Have I got that right? If so, we will have to resit flight planning!
If I have it wrong, then I apologise.
You can of course depart A for B and replan over or abeam C, but not the other way around! I suspect, however, that that is what you meant!
Unless I read you wrong Metro, you're suggesting that you would depart A for C, with the legally required fuel, and then when over or abeam C would determine if you had enough fuel to go to B (which is where you really are supposed to be going) and then change your flight plan and go there!
OR (scenario 2)
When over or abeam C if you don't have sufficient fuel to go to B (which is where you are really supposed to be going) then you simply land at C much to the surprise of the cretins down the back!
Have I got that right? If so, we will have to resit flight planning!
If I have it wrong, then I apologise.
You can of course depart A for B and replan over or abeam C, but not the other way around! I suspect, however, that that is what you meant!
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Amos2
I didn't read Metro's post but what you've said above gives;
1) the American flightplanning system of 're-file inflight', and
2) a modification of the Qantas system which gives A-B reliability in the high 90's.
At all times, the airlines state they're going A-B to the pax. it's how you stay legal with little fuel at the end that counts.
G'day
I didn't read Metro's post but what you've said above gives;
1) the American flightplanning system of 're-file inflight', and
2) a modification of the Qantas system which gives A-B reliability in the high 90's.
At all times, the airlines state they're going A-B to the pax. it's how you stay legal with little fuel at the end that counts.
G'day
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I sincerely hope the media read this thread, as we all know a good ending and facts don't suit their sensationalist B....S....t
because the media, journos and all the other vermin scum in it WILL NOT tell the truth, they invade peoples privacy and call themselves professionals, they can't even spell the word. LOW LIFES' OF THE HIGHEST ORDER a POX ON THEM ALL
because the media, journos and all the other vermin scum in it WILL NOT tell the truth, they invade peoples privacy and call themselves professionals, they can't even spell the word. LOW LIFES' OF THE HIGHEST ORDER a POX ON THEM ALL
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Whoops topend and others - for some reason I thought the TJ rego's 73's were 476 series.
As for the airstairs, was at that stage unsure of A/C type.
TMW is served by QF Link, and the Airport run by the council.
As if you could get one of the silvertails of TMW out of their cot, or have them commit dollars to calling out an employee to slap static stairs up to the aeroplane. Fat chance.
The route agent would no doubt have done the job, if suitable stairs are available and if notified, but again the unknown factor of weather - 5 minutes - 5 hours?
Guts of matter.
Qf right - media idiots - SLF still worse than sheep at a drenching.
Best all
EWL
As for the airstairs, was at that stage unsure of A/C type.
TMW is served by QF Link, and the Airport run by the council.
As if you could get one of the silvertails of TMW out of their cot, or have them commit dollars to calling out an employee to slap static stairs up to the aeroplane. Fat chance.
The route agent would no doubt have done the job, if suitable stairs are available and if notified, but again the unknown factor of weather - 5 minutes - 5 hours?
Guts of matter.
Qf right - media idiots - SLF still worse than sheep at a drenching.
Best all
EWL
The 14 VOR/DME approach is a lot less precise (it uses the VOR at the beginning of runway 19) than the 01 or 19 ILS. Even though it looks fairly straight in the Jepp it does not line you up precisely with the centre line like an ILS does. Minima is 600' and 3.2km vis versus 220'+PEC and 0.8km vis on the ILS. RW 14 at 1760m is only half the length of the main runway and probably getting a bit tight for a 737, especially when wet and carrying an extra 5 knots or so due turbulance.
Captain probably did not fancy seeing the runway at the last second whilst high ,slightly fast and not quite lined up and then having to land on a short wet runway. Too may things starting to add up here. He probably didn't think it was worth trying a second approach as things wouldn't improve greatly in 10 minutes due to the extent of the weather ,not just talking about an isolated CB overhead the field that night.Operations manuals normally limit the number of approaches that can be made before the pilot diverts (2-3)
Captain diverted and landed safely ,pax inconvenienced and fed up but the whole thing will soon be forgotten about.
Captain probably did not fancy seeing the runway at the last second whilst high ,slightly fast and not quite lined up and then having to land on a short wet runway. Too may things starting to add up here. He probably didn't think it was worth trying a second approach as things wouldn't improve greatly in 10 minutes due to the extent of the weather ,not just talking about an isolated CB overhead the field that night.Operations manuals normally limit the number of approaches that can be made before the pilot diverts (2-3)
Captain diverted and landed safely ,pax inconvenienced and fed up but the whole thing will soon be forgotten about.
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No offence intended. 
TW was indeed the alternate for a friend's B737 the morning AFTER the Great Diversion !
They'd added up the fuel and looked at every other diversion option; all were below either ALTN CRIT or landing minima!!
As one of our supervisories said to CASA'a forebears [and they had a few!], "If you stick a long runway with an ILS close to a location with poor forecasting, you can expect MORE diversions here not less!!" [YSCB circa 1974]
You may not have to use the option very often [YPLM comes to mind], but they're still available. Indeed, my friend was almost the second TW diversion.
G'day
TW was indeed the alternate for a friend's B737 the morning AFTER the Great Diversion !
They'd added up the fuel and looked at every other diversion option; all were below either ALTN CRIT or landing minima!!
As one of our supervisories said to CASA'a forebears [and they had a few!], "If you stick a long runway with an ILS close to a location with poor forecasting, you can expect MORE diversions here not less!!" [YSCB circa 1974]
You may not have to use the option very often [YPLM comes to mind], but they're still available. Indeed, my friend was almost the second TW diversion.
G'day
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Flight Detent
In answer to your questions:
(a) It is not unusual to not carry more fuel than required for one approach and then diversion.
(b) See answer (a).
(c) No you will not be allowed to do just what you want to do, that does not mean that you are a prisoner but passengers are generally kept together as it causes problems when it is time to depart, usually causing further delays. (security and lost passengers). Also note the time of night, what would be available for the passengers at a small country town airport that early in the morning.....not a lot!
It does not matter how experienced the Captain was, these things happen to the best of them at one time or other, in all airlines! And BTW a lot of the 737 captains are very experienced.
Nobody wants the disruption for the passengers, but they arrived at their destination safely which at the end of the day is what matters most.
In answer to your questions:
(a) It is not unusual to not carry more fuel than required for one approach and then diversion.
(b) See answer (a).
(c) No you will not be allowed to do just what you want to do, that does not mean that you are a prisoner but passengers are generally kept together as it causes problems when it is time to depart, usually causing further delays. (security and lost passengers). Also note the time of night, what would be available for the passengers at a small country town airport that early in the morning.....not a lot!
It does not matter how experienced the Captain was, these things happen to the best of them at one time or other, in all airlines! And BTW a lot of the 737 captains are very experienced.
Nobody wants the disruption for the passengers, but they arrived at their destination safely which at the end of the day is what matters most.
Last edited by RaTa; 17th May 2003 at 08:32.