AOPA election results
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Then why didn't this message filter out to those waiting for things to start, why did the food van get all out of kilter and why didn't the very bloke you reckoned knew about this deny same?
I stood there looking you in the eye when you were asking I accede to a short adjournment to allow Marjorie to get there, why didn't you say the minutes were there then? I told you that I had no objections to the meeting being held a bit later. No mention of minutes however.
You blokes amaze me, really.
If this is to be the standard of your reply, I can quiet imagine how the questions of the conduct of the meeting will be answered.
The bad looser thing is getting a bit tedious also. I simply hate injustice, and you my friend are up to your neck in it. You will never know what humble pie tastes like because your pride won't allow it. At least I know what is right from wrong.
Discussion over.
Some phone calls have you correct in the fact that you told Chris McKeown just before the meeting, he asked for same, you refused to hand them over so we are back to where we started from.
We had no minutes until either you, Jane or Marjorie decided to hand them over.
Therefor we had NO minutes and everyone was inconvenienced by you and the meeting could not start without them.
I say again, nobody told me, that they were there all the time and you had the opportunity.
Also on the subject, what was someone, who was not on the board at the time, doing with them in her possession anyway. I thought this was what all the fuss about Bill Hamilton was about.
Doesn't this breach the "code of conduct" that was promulgated well prior to the AGM?
I stood there looking you in the eye when you were asking I accede to a short adjournment to allow Marjorie to get there, why didn't you say the minutes were there then? I told you that I had no objections to the meeting being held a bit later. No mention of minutes however.
You blokes amaze me, really.
If this is to be the standard of your reply, I can quiet imagine how the questions of the conduct of the meeting will be answered.
The bad looser thing is getting a bit tedious also. I simply hate injustice, and you my friend are up to your neck in it. You will never know what humble pie tastes like because your pride won't allow it. At least I know what is right from wrong.
Discussion over.
Some phone calls have you correct in the fact that you told Chris McKeown just before the meeting, he asked for same, you refused to hand them over so we are back to where we started from.
We had no minutes until either you, Jane or Marjorie decided to hand them over.
Therefor we had NO minutes and everyone was inconvenienced by you and the meeting could not start without them.
I say again, nobody told me, that they were there all the time and you had the opportunity.
Also on the subject, what was someone, who was not on the board at the time, doing with them in her possession anyway. I thought this was what all the fuss about Bill Hamilton was about.
Doesn't this breach the "code of conduct" that was promulgated well prior to the AGM?
Don Quixote Impersonator
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There's an echo in here somewhere, I keep hearing the same old same old, same old.
I wonder if they ever did work out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
It is a fact that you and Andrew, cloaked of course in the fine and ringing rhetoric of "we who have AOPA at heart", who set the rules of that engagement by saying clearly that if we or Marjorie, didn't do a "thing" by a certain time, that you would do a "thing". And now you are making a great deal about being magnanimous giving us a break on your "thing".
Gimme a break.
I keep saying to you "thing" away.
Your nonsense about housekeeper mode is just that.
Now if you don't mind I've got constructive work to do.
It's simple, Bob Murphie posted what we considered to be a very possibly defamatory series of allegations on the AOPA Forum, none of which had any basis in fact beyond the usual conspiracy stuff, followed by a dose of the usual sweetnes and light from a certain member and followed closely by Andrew chiming in with a plea for "truth and transparency". It was copied on the AGACF and here.
And again we have the usual Murphie;
made as a statement of fact.
Speaking of which, to add to AKs comments there was a discussion with Chris before the meeting about the lack of minutes and what was found to be an incorrect agenda without minutes attached distributed to the members on registration.
Prior to this, several others and I approached Chris before the meeting asking whether he would support an adjournment on the basis of "stress of weather" preventing a large number of the members, some Board elect, including the Past President and a President and Vice President elect, from reaching the meeting in time, pointing out that we were, after all, an association that encourages and promotes aviation, pilots, ownership and the use of aircraft as a routine mode of tranport, especially to such events.
This was refused or there was certainly no commitment given to to do so.
This would have given Chris the time to organise the correct agenda and have a copy of the minutes printed without any embarassment to anybody.
This was after all the Presidents responsibility, as neither Jane nor the other lady had any official responsibility in this regard.
We did not believe that any reasonable member in the tent would not have supported an adjournment on that basis.
You're a journo?
"Members of AOPA, the peak aviation body for GA, who had flown in from all over the country in their own aircraft to attend their AGM , this morning elected a new President and new Board, most of whom including the new President and one of the new VPs were unable to attend because they were stranded only hours away due to bad weather closing the Murray Bridge airport. A motion to adjourn the meeting for several hours to facilitate their attendance was defeated by the members." ???
What's the message?
You may be unaware that Marjorie and some others left the aircraft in which they were travelling from Sydney at Mildura after having made several unsuccesful attempts that morning to press on and continued by car in the event that the aircraft was unable to get through, which it and the others did eventually.
Now there is some more stuff for you to pick over and analyse to death.
I wonder if they ever did work out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
It is a fact that you and Andrew, cloaked of course in the fine and ringing rhetoric of "we who have AOPA at heart", who set the rules of that engagement by saying clearly that if we or Marjorie, didn't do a "thing" by a certain time, that you would do a "thing". And now you are making a great deal about being magnanimous giving us a break on your "thing".
Gimme a break.
I keep saying to you "thing" away.
Your nonsense about housekeeper mode is just that.
Now if you don't mind I've got constructive work to do.
It's simple, Bob Murphie posted what we considered to be a very possibly defamatory series of allegations on the AOPA Forum, none of which had any basis in fact beyond the usual conspiracy stuff, followed by a dose of the usual sweetnes and light from a certain member and followed closely by Andrew chiming in with a plea for "truth and transparency". It was copied on the AGACF and here.
And again we have the usual Murphie;
A lot of people don't like being lied to and then treated with contempt when they front the situation with the players.
Speaking of which, to add to AKs comments there was a discussion with Chris before the meeting about the lack of minutes and what was found to be an incorrect agenda without minutes attached distributed to the members on registration.
Prior to this, several others and I approached Chris before the meeting asking whether he would support an adjournment on the basis of "stress of weather" preventing a large number of the members, some Board elect, including the Past President and a President and Vice President elect, from reaching the meeting in time, pointing out that we were, after all, an association that encourages and promotes aviation, pilots, ownership and the use of aircraft as a routine mode of tranport, especially to such events.
This was refused or there was certainly no commitment given to to do so.
This would have given Chris the time to organise the correct agenda and have a copy of the minutes printed without any embarassment to anybody.
This was after all the Presidents responsibility, as neither Jane nor the other lady had any official responsibility in this regard.
We did not believe that any reasonable member in the tent would not have supported an adjournment on that basis.
You're a journo?
"Members of AOPA, the peak aviation body for GA, who had flown in from all over the country in their own aircraft to attend their AGM , this morning elected a new President and new Board, most of whom including the new President and one of the new VPs were unable to attend because they were stranded only hours away due to bad weather closing the Murray Bridge airport. A motion to adjourn the meeting for several hours to facilitate their attendance was defeated by the members." ???
What's the message?
You may be unaware that Marjorie and some others left the aircraft in which they were travelling from Sydney at Mildura after having made several unsuccesful attempts that morning to press on and continued by car in the event that the aircraft was unable to get through, which it and the others did eventually.
Now there is some more stuff for you to pick over and analyse to death.
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Axiom
Seems to me you are up to your neck in perceived injustice because you didn't get what you (and only you and one or two others) wanted outright.
In simple terms, the members rejected you.
Now to you latest carefully crafted conspiracy:
Because Russell Kelly, the Secretary at the time of the previous AGM, had a copy and was trying to find someone to fax them to (at the Murray Bridge Motel). He found Jane.
But of course both Adolf Hitler AND Osama Bin Laden were involved in this evil plot as well.
AK
Seems to me you are up to your neck in perceived injustice because you didn't get what you (and only you and one or two others) wanted outright.
In simple terms, the members rejected you.
Now to you latest carefully crafted conspiracy:
what was someone, who was not on the board at the time, doing with them in her possession anyway
But of course both Adolf Hitler AND Osama Bin Laden were involved in this evil plot as well.
AK
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AOPA on Hiatus?
Rest assured AOPA members, that the office staff has been working over time!!
The board and staff have got plenty to do and there is no rest for an AOPA employee. Maybe because we have some hard task masters
(not you Gary!)
However, some praise or thanks doesn't go astray to the dedicated staff your AOPA has! (again not you Gary
)
So next time your calling AOPA or talking about or even just thinking about, say thanks to our office staff:
Kylie
Jill
Julie
Margaret
and me (Daniel)
The board and staff have got plenty to do and there is no rest for an AOPA employee. Maybe because we have some hard task masters
(not you Gary!)However, some praise or thanks doesn't go astray to the dedicated staff your AOPA has! (again not you Gary
)So next time your calling AOPA or talking about or even just thinking about, say thanks to our office staff:
Kylie
Jill
Julie
Margaret
and me (Daniel)
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TO GAUNTY, & AOPA STAFF
Gaunty
You win mate - you win the master of misdirection award for this year, topping even John and the WMD.
Only you could turn around the unwarranted unsustainable written comment about Andrew W; the delay in responding to it and returning his Forum rights; and the attempts to clean up the mess originated by an AOPA Director - into an attack on AOPA.
Only you in your self-righteous but incorrect wisdom could suggest that when some AOPA members adopt the only means of flushing out the matter it is US trying to set the rules of engagement. Wonderful emotive bovine excreta mate.
How dare Andrew W demand that something incorrect be retracted. How dare he ask for things to hurry along when the perpetrator is busy with business dealings. Even more guilty, how dare he be at home for Ms Pagani to ring him and whisper words of legal pressure in his ear over the Kris Lovell posting on agaf - he really must stop harassing her, mustn't he!.
Your response to me was a litany of trivia, a catalogue of cant, a masterpice of misdirection, and the classic tactics adopted by school bullies when the victim dares to fight back. YOU, and you personally, will now being seen by all readers of this Forum as not only failing to stand up for an AOPA member when he is wronged but also prepared to try and assist a cover-up.
I am personally disgusted by your behaviour. The aim of the game was to have Ms Pagani withdraw her baseless allegations - the result has been to show that you too are prepared to be a bully through position of power and to hell with the wronged member.
I suggest you clean out any of your pre-election spiel left on this forum before it embarrasses you any further and/or sickens us any more. I must look up the dictionary definition of "hypocrite".
Although to give you one fair deal - you may have to grab the dictionary to comprehend that - one can at least argue that you don't have a legal qualification. Therefore, you may not comprehend how someone who does hold one should ensure what is written is based on fact, not wishful thinking and a desire to slip one into agaf. Then again, I don't rate you as stupid so ....
AOPA STAFF
Some misunderstanding here re your post. No one has suggested anyone in the office is in "hiatus" mode, or if it read that way that is not what was intended. The whole 'hiatus' issue relates to whether the Board can truly operate at present - only parallel I can think of is Germany in 1940 if himself went missing.
Above all, don't get involved in matters of AOPA politics even as individuals. It leads to a certain fatality of career decision.
Ah, you will be praised when some genius feeds you that bovine material and gets you to stand up and be counted on the Forum as in this case - but woe betide you if the wind changes.
Keep up the good work - you have a blanket agreement from me personally that any comment I make re "AOPA" in this matter relates only to the conduct of a few. Having worked for a national society some years ago, I have a strong self-learned sympathy for professional managers who have to work with Boards comprising a mix of agendas and qualities (again referring only to a few).
Cheers
Brian H
You win mate - you win the master of misdirection award for this year, topping even John and the WMD.
Only you could turn around the unwarranted unsustainable written comment about Andrew W; the delay in responding to it and returning his Forum rights; and the attempts to clean up the mess originated by an AOPA Director - into an attack on AOPA.
Only you in your self-righteous but incorrect wisdom could suggest that when some AOPA members adopt the only means of flushing out the matter it is US trying to set the rules of engagement. Wonderful emotive bovine excreta mate.
How dare Andrew W demand that something incorrect be retracted. How dare he ask for things to hurry along when the perpetrator is busy with business dealings. Even more guilty, how dare he be at home for Ms Pagani to ring him and whisper words of legal pressure in his ear over the Kris Lovell posting on agaf - he really must stop harassing her, mustn't he!.
Your response to me was a litany of trivia, a catalogue of cant, a masterpice of misdirection, and the classic tactics adopted by school bullies when the victim dares to fight back. YOU, and you personally, will now being seen by all readers of this Forum as not only failing to stand up for an AOPA member when he is wronged but also prepared to try and assist a cover-up.
I am personally disgusted by your behaviour. The aim of the game was to have Ms Pagani withdraw her baseless allegations - the result has been to show that you too are prepared to be a bully through position of power and to hell with the wronged member.
I suggest you clean out any of your pre-election spiel left on this forum before it embarrasses you any further and/or sickens us any more. I must look up the dictionary definition of "hypocrite".
Although to give you one fair deal - you may have to grab the dictionary to comprehend that - one can at least argue that you don't have a legal qualification. Therefore, you may not comprehend how someone who does hold one should ensure what is written is based on fact, not wishful thinking and a desire to slip one into agaf. Then again, I don't rate you as stupid so ....
AOPA STAFF
Some misunderstanding here re your post. No one has suggested anyone in the office is in "hiatus" mode, or if it read that way that is not what was intended. The whole 'hiatus' issue relates to whether the Board can truly operate at present - only parallel I can think of is Germany in 1940 if himself went missing.
Above all, don't get involved in matters of AOPA politics even as individuals. It leads to a certain fatality of career decision.
Ah, you will be praised when some genius feeds you that bovine material and gets you to stand up and be counted on the Forum as in this case - but woe betide you if the wind changes.
Keep up the good work - you have a blanket agreement from me personally that any comment I make re "AOPA" in this matter relates only to the conduct of a few. Having worked for a national society some years ago, I have a strong self-learned sympathy for professional managers who have to work with Boards comprising a mix of agendas and qualities (again referring only to a few).
Cheers
Brian H
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What's Russel Kelly got to do with the minutes of a meeting held at Narromine on Sat 25th May 2002, got to do with Jane having them on her lap top on 23rd May 2003 when she was not in any way entitled to be privy to confidential AOPA documents?
Wasn't this the same gut who wrote the "Directors code of conduct?".
I"ve had a gutfull of you snarek.
I think AW was right when he suggested we get the election campaign going 6 months (or whatever) in advance because you and your crew obviously can't get their "ducks in a row" given the time you had.
Stress of weather, Struth, everyone else got there in time, even me and I was a car passenger. If the office staff can arrive with the documents on time (sans minutes), why can't your mob?
This whole show has been a "bubble and squeek' affair since it started and is not getting better.
What is going on in the real world of aviation?
Stop insulting me with your replies, you bore me.
Ax.
Wasn't this the same gut who wrote the "Directors code of conduct?".
I"ve had a gutfull of you snarek.
I think AW was right when he suggested we get the election campaign going 6 months (or whatever) in advance because you and your crew obviously can't get their "ducks in a row" given the time you had.
Stress of weather, Struth, everyone else got there in time, even me and I was a car passenger. If the office staff can arrive with the documents on time (sans minutes), why can't your mob?
This whole show has been a "bubble and squeek' affair since it started and is not getting better.
What is going on in the real world of aviation?
Stop insulting me with your replies, you bore me.
Ax.
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OK I think this subject has had a fair enough airing and is descending into the usual vituperation and taking up too much moderating time to monitor.
You can all yell conspiracy or whatever you like, but this thread is going nowhere and like most threads that go nowhere is now locked.
Go fight your battles somewhere else, why even on the AOPA Forum and let the rest of us get on with something interesting.
Any other threads in this mode will also be closed.
We run this Forum our way and that is the way it is going to be, take it or leave it.
You can all yell conspiracy or whatever you like, but this thread is going nowhere and like most threads that go nowhere is now locked.
Go fight your battles somewhere else, why even on the AOPA Forum and let the rest of us get on with something interesting.
Any other threads in this mode will also be closed.
We run this Forum our way and that is the way it is going to be, take it or leave it.
