Loop Hole closed ?
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Loop Hole closed ?
Heard a rumour that it is no longer possible to go to the US and get theire "weet bix" ATPL then transfer to OZ ATPL. can anyone confirm this ?
Also I know that Virgin do not accept converted licences, but Qantas still do, but do ask about it in interview stage. also, can anyone confirm confirm this ?
Also I know that Virgin do not accept converted licences, but Qantas still do, but do ask about it in interview stage. also, can anyone confirm confirm this ?
Grandpa Aerotart
I have recently heard from a mate who gained his Oz ATPL on the basis of a US ATP.
It seems a mutual mate needed to get his 'proper' Australian ATPL for a job which would not accept his current OZ ATPL due to it being based on a US ATP. He missed out on the first subject he sat and now has a CPL until such time as he passes all the OZ ATPL subjects within the allowed 3 years.
Food for thought!!!
Chuck.
It seems a mutual mate needed to get his 'proper' Australian ATPL for a job which would not accept his current OZ ATPL due to it being based on a US ATP. He missed out on the first subject he sat and now has a CPL until such time as he passes all the OZ ATPL subjects within the allowed 3 years.
Food for thought!!!
Chuck.
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I have a question along the same lines. I have an Australian ATPL. If my company sends me to the US to do a type rating, how can I add this to my aussie licence? I have heard that it cannot be done, unless you have a FAA CPL/ATPL. You get the type rating added to that licence, and then you take that to CASA, they recognise it, and put it on your aussie one. Is this true or part of the usual aviation old wives tale club?
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Can someone really tell me why the US ATP is so disregarded here? Sounds to me like an unfounded judgement. Sure the ATP examination system is "easier", but does having to pass an thick, expensive, and sometimes quite ridiculous exam make a really better pilot?
I've had a few experienced QF pilots tell me "study to pass the ATPL's, and forget about them, they are a waste of time" and comment along the lines!
Same happens with other US trained personnel in aviation. Planes fly the same, and are the same, why the difference? Enlighten me please!!!
I've had a few experienced QF pilots tell me "study to pass the ATPL's, and forget about them, they are a waste of time" and comment along the lines!
Same happens with other US trained personnel in aviation. Planes fly the same, and are the same, why the difference? Enlighten me please!!!
Grandpa Aerotart
FWIW I think the attitude is similar to the NAS debate...that is people who gain an Oz ATPL via a 4 or 5 day 'fire hose' style course designed simply to remember the answers are cherry picking the 'easy bit' while leaving the rest.
In the US system a type rating is a lot more involved than in Oz and encompasses stuff that we do in ATPL Flight Planning/Air Legislation etc..every time you add a type rating.
So a US pilot doesn't just regugitate answers learned in a 'pass the exam' book and auto dump...
At least that's what I've been told by pilots who actually flew in the US on Airline ops.
In my opinion the US exam, taken alone, is too easy and the UK system is just bizarrely at the opposite extreme...perhaps the Oz system is a reasonable compromise!
I did the Oz ATPL exams back 12+ years ago...2 week course for FP and passed first go, several days home study for Nav and passed, less for Met/Air Leg and passed those too...the Oz system was/is not THAT hard.
Besides it is OUR system and I don't think it unreasonable that Oz airlines demand an Oz standard.
Chuck.
In the US system a type rating is a lot more involved than in Oz and encompasses stuff that we do in ATPL Flight Planning/Air Legislation etc..every time you add a type rating.
So a US pilot doesn't just regugitate answers learned in a 'pass the exam' book and auto dump...
At least that's what I've been told by pilots who actually flew in the US on Airline ops.
In my opinion the US exam, taken alone, is too easy and the UK system is just bizarrely at the opposite extreme...perhaps the Oz system is a reasonable compromise!
I did the Oz ATPL exams back 12+ years ago...2 week course for FP and passed first go, several days home study for Nav and passed, less for Met/Air Leg and passed those too...the Oz system was/is not THAT hard.
Besides it is OUR system and I don't think it unreasonable that Oz airlines demand an Oz standard.
Chuck.
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Yeah, Chuckles is right. I did the Australian ATPL's back in 88. It was during the period of change and did so many exams. CPL Final, SCPL subjesct then ATPL etc etc. Then I left Oz and had to do 7 exams just to convert my OZ ATPL to a CPL. 4500 hours later another exam to get my new countries ATPL (Which, unfortunately is set by the british CAA, long live uselessness).
So you get the picture, and I was really pissed off that I had to do all this ****, but then I talk to all my yank mates about their orals, and realise that anybody who thinks that an Australian ATPL is the best in the world and that the US one is crap, has either never left OZ, or is just being argumentitive.
Play the system. Most pilots are successful because we just do what we have to. Christ, my last ATPL exam had omega in it, even after all the stations had been decommissioned.
So you get the picture, and I was really pissed off that I had to do all this ****, but then I talk to all my yank mates about their orals, and realise that anybody who thinks that an Australian ATPL is the best in the world and that the US one is crap, has either never left OZ, or is just being argumentitive.
Play the system. Most pilots are successful because we just do what we have to. Christ, my last ATPL exam had omega in it, even after all the stations had been decommissioned.
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some did a single SCPL exam...most were given the questions and answers...this was even easier than the FAA ATPL...where do you stand with that? Do we sack all those who got it that easy????
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I love it when these "WOOD DUCKS" reiterate on this subject!!
It is funny however, that this subject is brought back from the dead by people who say...
Quote:
"I have recently heard from a mate who gained his Oz ATPL on the basis of a US ATP. It seems a mutual mate needed to get his 'proper' Australian ATPL for a job which would not accept his current OZ ATPL due to it being based on a US ATP"
My mate my mate my mate my mate my mate reckons he told you a furphy!!!!!!!
Why is this type of post never from someone who can say ....I got knocked back from Quntarse or VB as had a converted US ATP????????????????????
Cheers
It is funny however, that this subject is brought back from the dead by people who say...
Quote:
"I have recently heard from a mate who gained his Oz ATPL on the basis of a US ATP. It seems a mutual mate needed to get his 'proper' Australian ATPL for a job which would not accept his current OZ ATPL due to it being based on a US ATP"
My mate my mate my mate my mate my mate reckons he told you a furphy!!!!!!!
Why is this type of post never from someone who can say ....I got knocked back from Quntarse or VB as had a converted US ATP????????????????????
Cheers
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ozpilot,
I am not certain of the status of foreign applicants for FAA licences since 9/11, but if you are being sent to the US for a type rating it could be an opportunity to make the checkride a FAA ATP and Type Rating checkride as well. They are both the same test, and you would have a US license for not much cost or effort. You would have to pass the ATP written and attend interview with FAA office beforehand, plus any current security clearances. As BIK_116.80 pointed out, any ATP or Type Rating checkride includes approx 3 hours of intense oral quizzing on systems, limitations, performance problems, etc. You would also need to familiarise yourself with the FAR/AIM, much more user friendly than the Australian equivalent.
I am not certain of the status of foreign applicants for FAA licences since 9/11, but if you are being sent to the US for a type rating it could be an opportunity to make the checkride a FAA ATP and Type Rating checkride as well. They are both the same test, and you would have a US license for not much cost or effort. You would have to pass the ATP written and attend interview with FAA office beforehand, plus any current security clearances. As BIK_116.80 pointed out, any ATP or Type Rating checkride includes approx 3 hours of intense oral quizzing on systems, limitations, performance problems, etc. You would also need to familiarise yourself with the FAR/AIM, much more user friendly than the Australian equivalent.
Grandpa Aerotart
Well Captain Baron I will make it clearer for you...a good mate of mine, who until recently held an ATPL gained on the basis of a US one now holds a CPL until he passes all the Oz exams within 3 years.
Are you suggesting he made this up?
Chuck.
Are you suggesting he made this up?
Chuck.
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Apparently VB don' t accept the US Subjects..
another 'mate' tale, but he was told in interview that they didn't like pilots taking shortcuts.
Why not do what the rest of us have done, and work your butt off and pass the ATPL subjects!
another 'mate' tale, but he was told in interview that they didn't like pilots taking shortcuts.
Why not do what the rest of us have done, and work your butt off and pass the ATPL subjects!
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The FAA ATP exam is ridicolously easy I did it after already had my frozen ATP in Brazil for almost 10 years with no study at all and passed. I can really tell any ICAO country (the whole world but US) pilot is more technically preapred than any US pilot. I know this will flame here but it's the truth. The system here is you go to a computer memorize all the answer and go to the test on the same computer. the qustions and the answers are exactly the same you already memorized even if you have no clue how to get the answer as far as you know it you pass. no calculations necessary and no computer or navigation chart neither. Easy like that.
The other thing is the medical 1st class here that also allow ayone even with parkinson or alzheymers to get their first clas as they don't do any of the exams other ICAO counties does.
The other funny thing is they signed the aggrement to comply with ICAO regs starting in 1995 but never happened as any other aggrement they sign they never comply.
Now flame.
The other thing is the medical 1st class here that also allow ayone even with parkinson or alzheymers to get their first clas as they don't do any of the exams other ICAO counties does.
The other funny thing is they signed the aggrement to comply with ICAO regs starting in 1995 but never happened as any other aggrement they sign they never comply.
Now flame.
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Would it be acceptable to the airlines to get the Aussie ATPL based on the US ATP, (maybe to qualify for the interviews) then sit the subjects? By the time one actually had the interview, all the subjects would be passed.
How would an airline see this?
My last FAA oral consisted of the examiner explaining which states were southern, which were SE, which were midwest etc. When he finished that he told me how the US has been going downhill since Jimmy Carter. My imput was not really necessary.
How would an airline see this?
My last FAA oral consisted of the examiner explaining which states were southern, which were SE, which were midwest etc. When he finished that he told me how the US has been going downhill since Jimmy Carter. My imput was not really necessary.
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No I don't think so. I recently did my ATPL subjects and we had a guy on our course who had a US ATP. He was not even allowed to sit a subject by CASA. Their reasoning is why do you need to do an exam when you hold the licence? Also if you fail an exam they will pull your OZ ATPL(based on the US ATP) on the basis that you don't know what u r doing!. This has happened to many so far.
If you go this way, ensure you are going to be allowed to sit the exams and make sure you pass all of them first go!.
If you go this way, ensure you are going to be allowed to sit the exams and make sure you pass all of them first go!.
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ATPL
My oral lasted about 2.5 hrs, I did not go to one of those sausage factory schools, then my flight test last 2.9 hrs at night under the hood. My "mate" did not pass his oral first up and had to go away and study for a week before he could do his oral and then get into the plane.
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Gah! you lot got it easy.
Back in the old days was no schools bloody Nerus Mk1 silly bloody aeroplane 3 engine cruise DC4 prop stuff all take offs seemed to be from Quito or La Paz wherever the bloody hell they were.
Did hear once the exam setter when queried about the relevance of the subject to actual aviation said "If I want to set an exam on ancient Chinese history you will sit it and pass for the issue of your SCPL"
Back in the old days was no schools bloody Nerus Mk1 silly bloody aeroplane 3 engine cruise DC4 prop stuff all take offs seemed to be from Quito or La Paz wherever the bloody hell they were.
Did hear once the exam setter when queried about the relevance of the subject to actual aviation said "If I want to set an exam on ancient Chinese history you will sit it and pass for the issue of your SCPL"
mjbow2 If you want the facts call 131 757 and ask for Flight Crew Licencing.
As for CASA "pulling" a licence issued on the basis of a foreign ATPL after someone fails an Oz ATPL subject, well just think about the logic or lack thereof. The AAT would have a field day. I doubt CASA or ASL would give a toss.
For the record VB accept the converted ATPL they have no choice, it is a valid ATPL. What they require is a pass in the Oz subjects as well. Unless of course they become short of pilots then all bets are off!
As for CASA "pulling" a licence issued on the basis of a foreign ATPL after someone fails an Oz ATPL subject, well just think about the logic or lack thereof. The AAT would have a field day. I doubt CASA or ASL would give a toss.
For the record VB accept the converted ATPL they have no choice, it is a valid ATPL. What they require is a pass in the Oz subjects as well. Unless of course they become short of pilots then all bets are off!