atpl licence conversion problems

[wizbang123]

This post is for any pilots out there who are getting a USA ATP converted to an australian one, particularly the ones who want a job at VB.
VB do not accept usa to aussie atpl conversions, so the only option is to do all the atlp theory credits not just airlaw, and unless you are supremely confident of passing all exams first try, its advisable to hold off on going to casa and getting the licence before you complete all the exams because should you fail any of the components, CASA will revoke your nice new ATPL, this can be a real problem, for folks who are using their ATPL to put food on the table while they are getting the quals required by VB.
Makes for an extremely nerve racking few seconds between pressing the submit button and getting the exam results.

[farcup77]

Quite correct wizzer,but OLD news,I know of a couple who have learnt the hard way,one of which went away and did the subjects and now has a job with Virgin.It is also FACT that Qantas now reject candidates who have gone down this path.So for those who continue to turn a deaf ear to these facts of life,believing that your US ATP,picked up in a vending machine in disneyland with a mickey mouse stamp on it will be enough,the number for AFT at Maroochy is 07 5448 7770!

And no,Mr Higgins did not pay me to write that!

[Ford Airlane]

I'm not the sure the mickey-mouse-disneyland style ATPL you mention is quite the truth.

I admit that the written test (as opposed to tests in Oz) is a walk in the park, but there is also a checkride and oral exam (that are not part of the Oz requirement) that I believe more than make up for the "mickey-mouse" nature of the written. Swings and roundabouts.

Yes, I do have an FAA ticket and no I did not get my CASA ATPL by a simple "air law" conversion, I did all the writtens.

[cessnox]

Amazing how these mickey licences fly in the busiest airspace in the world and don't all crash on the same day ? >>> isn't it

[Rich-Fine-Green]

ATPL Checkride.....

Ford Airlane:

Not for long my friend.

Under the new proposed Part 61 rules, ATPL candidates will have to undertake a course of Flight Training as well as a Flight Test in a Multi-Engine aeroplane with a co-pilot.

Flight Training Requirements:

6.4.1 The applicant must have received flight instruction in all units and elements of competency required for the issue of the air transport pilot licence as specified in the Manual of Standards - Pilot Licensing relevant to the aircraft category rating for which the licence is sought. (Note: the flight training is to be in multi-crew operations.)

Flight Test:

6.5.1 The applicant must have passed the air transport pilot licence flight test as specified in the Manual of Standards - Pilot Licensing appropriate to the aircraft category rating for which the licence is sought.
6.5.2 The flight test for the ATPL with an aeroplane category rating must be conducted under the IFR in a multi-engine aeroplane operated with a co-pilot capable of attaining a gross climb gradient of 1.9% following the failure of an engine after take-off at the operating weight used for the flight test.
6.5.3 The flight test for the ATPL with a helicopter category rating must have been conducted in a helicopter operated with a co-pilot and equipped for flight by reference to instruments.

[T53C]

It suprises me the number of crew in DJ that entered the company without the Oz subjects. I personally am not sure of the reason why the company changed their stance, but am curious if a driver was lacking knowledge on the line(be it Met, Hig speed aerodynamics, whatever), for them to enforce the new stipulation.

I know there are two sides to every story, and Cessnox you are right in what you say. How can tens of thousands of seppos fly a 1900 to a 747 on an FAA ticket, day in day out, and be able to have a beer at the end of their duty unscathed? Amazing.

Hey Wizbang123, I'm wondering if people go sit an exam, fail and get their Oz ATPL removed, could the unfortunate then just produce their existing O/S validation and get it revalidated in Oz again?

As they say, its JR's trainset and he can have it how he wants.

[Sheep Guts]

RFG,
When is the planned implementation of the new proposed rules you have described?

Funny how everyone says its a DisneyLand Licence. I earned way more tax free Green Backs on my FAA ATP, than Ill ever on my CASA ATPL. May be alot easier to get but, hey there are alot of people with the said qualification than others.

I did the US method but, I worked in foreign states afterwards and also got all my Turbine , and mutli-crew Airline training experience from it, so if were to rewrite my life, I wouldnt. Would you?

But then one has to realise the reality of Australia, and bite the bullet. I will go down the said path and pass it all again or remain O/S.

But I think its silly to revoke, I think maybe you should be given a window first in order to pass them all. Especially if its your bread and butter and you allready hold equivalenst for several different ICAO States.



I did attempt the ATPL when I had 385 hrs but failed only Flight Planning. But because it was under another silly rule by which you had to pass ALL or NONE , I lost my 80% for AGK and such.

You had to sit all 7 in 9 hrs Over 2 days. And pass them all aswell.

Pretty tough, I had to get work, I couldnt sit and Bludge off my folks and try and Sit it again and again,so I went north. I would never have done it any different.

So now I have to go back to do it again with over 4000TT and alot more experience. Maybe some will stick this time.



Regards
Sheep

[mjbow2]

So they want all 7 writtens.

Have i got this right?
if you dont do the 'conversion' you have to do the instrument rating first (exam included) then all 7 ATPL subjects and the ATPL check ride.

OR

doing all 7 writtens, and then using the ATP air law to do the conversion.

Assuming that it is just all those extra writtens they want to see.

Ford....

I didnt realise there are no oral exams for the checkrides back home. I agree the US writtens are piece of cake....but my last company checkride was my ATP and and there was nothing mickey mouse about my 3 1/2 hour oral and 3 hour check ride.
MJB

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Sheep G:

I wish I had a crystal ball on the changes as I think it will really have an impact on the industry - both positive & negative.

I have heard some CASA folks say 2004 start - 2005 finished.


Based on what I have seen proposed on the CASA web site - I think any pilot in the industry now, or about to enter the industry may well be OK.

I would hate to be starting in G.A. after 2005 and be making my way up the ladder.

[motboy]

Has anyone actually been told by anyone of inportance from VB that they dont accept ATPL,s converted from the FAA or is this just second hand story telling.

[farcup77]

Last I checked,the bloke with the initials JR,was FAIRLY important!

Stop wasting time in denial,just go and do the writtens,might even learn something while you're at it

[CockpitJunkie]

Overseas ATPL not accepted, but many (most) got their B737 rating in USA and converted to Aus rating with minimal paperwork.

Not very consistent.

[fugitive]

One rule for family,another for everyone else.I notice that he has fast tracked his own to positions of authority,but others must do the hard yards.
What arrogance,a US ATPL is certainly of the level of an OZ ATP,certainly since our friend Smith interfered with standards.

[Sal-e]

AFT

Totally in agreement with farcup......AFT in maroochy works well with many....and no, I wasn't paid to do this either.....just that Mr Higgins does boast numerous proteges working in large companys,...I included. His courses can be found found on www.aft.com.au or you can contact him direct at [email protected]

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

If you want to talk about "Mickey Mouse Licences", how many countries can you fly in with the Auzzie ATPL as opposed to the FAA ATP, very very very few.

I went to the states to obtain an ATP, then convert to ATPL, you would have to be pretty damn stupid not to see the benefit in that.

Any Pilot that is a professional would not limit his knowledge to being able to learn the exams content rote as taught in Australia, this is not true knowledge, to those who sat the Auzzie ATPL 5 years ago, do you think you could go out and pass all these exams again tomorrow, i think not.

If you are to fly a Dash 8 or 777, how relevant is the Auzzie ATPL Sylabus to what you'll be doing ?.

[TurboOtter]

I did my ATPL subjects.

Talk about a lot of work, first find time to complete Nathan's course, then find money to pay for the course and live whilst doing the course (and money for the nights at the bar!!!)

Then sit the tests, pass all seven or go through it all again.
Let me say it is not easy or cheap to get an ATPL.

I have been there done that and know how easy it is to get an ATR everywhere else in the world, yet when you take your aussie licence over there they just laugh at you and say you have to the works..
So why should it be easy for state side ATR holders to get aussie ATPL's???
Because us aussie are most realistic than most others, not to mention freindly and willing to empty your bar and steal your women!!!!
Anyone tried to convert to a JAR licence, well get ready for twenty times more sh*t than the aussie licence.

Can somebody answer this question.
one ICAO licence in your hand, what does being ICAO mean??? nothing that's what, you take it any where in the world and you have to everything again, doesn't make sense.
Although take your aussie license, take your aussie superjet or whatever and they welcome you with open arms..
Flying is the same everywhere in the world. ground hurts and the guys on the radio think their in charge

Anyway just my two cents worth, sure know that it wont change anything!!

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

for a FAA ATP holder to convert to Aussie ATPL, you do need to obtain a CME-IR, IREX etc etc.

Why is it then that the Aussie ATPL (CPL as well) is held in such poor regard overseas, pointing out that it's not just in the States.

[Knave]

I have to throw my two cents in to this discussion. Using the fact that a pilot gained their initial ATPL in the US as a reason to discard their job application sounds more like a case of a convenient culling device rather than a matter of setting minimum safe working standards. If an airline needed a hundred pilots, and there were a thousand applicants, theyd come up with arbitrary standards to ease the workload. If only a hundred applicants were available however, the company would quickly discard requirements such as these.
Speaking from personal experience, I would suggest any Australian pilot do the lot in Australia first, as its always going to be a hirers market in this country. On the practical side, I have to disagree with the 'sausage factory' reputation of US schools. There are flying training establishments in both countries with questionable reputations for '100% pass rates', and there are also schools in each country that set the highest standards. Ive seen and been to both, and to say US pilot training is inferior to that of Australia is unfair commentary on anyone who has flown or trained in the US, espescially if they did their flying in winter in the north of the country.

[mjbow2]

here, here, knave....

am sitting here in my hotel room after a full day of approach after approach in snow storms comming out the ying yang.....

Of course, had I been flying with an ozzi ATPL I would have been INFINITELY more qualified to deliver all those pax safely on the ground......