Go - Arounds?
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Go - Arounds?
Hello all. There has been a lot of talk about "go- arounds" in singles recently (210, 06, 07 GA8 and so on). I've done a few - all pretty straight forward.
I'd like to know about other peoples experiences. For example at what height, if any, would you not attempt a go around in a fully loaded single. What about flap setting? Say you have full flap into a SHORT strip coming in slow?
I know what the manuals say I'm just keen to hear if anyone has any tips or good stories.
Thanks Mr. Hat
I'd like to know about other peoples experiences. For example at what height, if any, would you not attempt a go around in a fully loaded single. What about flap setting? Say you have full flap into a SHORT strip coming in slow?
I know what the manuals say I'm just keen to hear if anyone has any tips or good stories.
Thanks Mr. Hat
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Any time you need to go round, go round.
In theory you should be landing in a configuration which will allow you to go around if need be, even if only at a sluggish rate.
There is nothing to stop you going around even if the wheels have hit the ground, i've done so before.
If i were you i would judge each situation on its merits. If you can land safely, do so, if not go around. Weigh the concequences of each option and make a decision.
In theory you should be landing in a configuration which will allow you to go around if need be, even if only at a sluggish rate.
There is nothing to stop you going around even if the wheels have hit the ground, i've done so before.
If i were you i would judge each situation on its merits. If you can land safely, do so, if not go around. Weigh the concequences of each option and make a decision.
I think initial multi training has confused this issue a little. There is no minimum altitude at which a normally operating aircraft can no longer attempt to go-around if the need be.
I have noticed with some people a confusion resulting from the selection of decision altitude with respect to an assymetric approach.
You will also have noticed landing performance charts have a climb weight limitation...
Just one final suggestion....
If you find your on final trying to decide if you need to go-around- you already do!
oh, I did raise an eyebrow when you said earlier " I know what the manual says, but.."
I have noticed with some people a confusion resulting from the selection of decision altitude with respect to an assymetric approach.
You will also have noticed landing performance charts have a climb weight limitation...
Just one final suggestion....
If you find your on final trying to decide if you need to go-around- you already do!
oh, I did raise an eyebrow when you said earlier " I know what the manual says, but.."
CAO 20.7.4 Aeroplanes <5700Kg
9 Landing Climb Performance
In the landing configuration with all engines operating at take-off power an aeroplane must have the ability to climb at a gradient of 3.2% in standard atmospheric conditions at a speed not exceeding 1.3 Vs
9 Landing Climb Performance
In the landing configuration with all engines operating at take-off power an aeroplane must have the ability to climb at a gradient of 3.2% in standard atmospheric conditions at a speed not exceeding 1.3 Vs
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Mr Hat,
YMML is on the money. Take a peek at the performance charts in the flight manual. Don't go by what 'tips' you may get here unless you verify them for yourself, some of the information will be knee jerk stuff dragged out as "I remember when"
Not that I have ever done that
Why not work out the worst case and come up with a few rules of thumb that cover most of your ops, and warn you when it is time to refer to the book.
Eg.
"Eleven at Thirty Five or Less." In the Top End in a particular light twin, I knew that a charter to a hard surface runway of 1100m or better at OAT of 35c or less with no obstacles in the overshoot would meet requirements. If the temp was higher, or the TODA/TORA was less, it was time to refer to the P charts.
Why not go to the chart for your type, pick the hottest OAT for your area of operation, then make a note of the climb weight limit?
Too hard? Or "I am in the bush"? Then imagine this scenario
(background, smoking C210)
Chief Pilot: "So Bill, how come it didn't go up when you went around?"
Bill chooses his answer:
(a) "Dunno, it was chockers, boss, and I did combine two jobs to get $600 per hour."
(b) "I used this rule of thumb that I got off Pprune from some guy I never met. I never checked it, but he was a bit of a legend by the way he talked."
(c) "Boss, it ran up ok this morning, it hasn't missed a beat all day, I flew it like the book says and I was about 50 kg under the climb weight limit."
Whenever I think that maybe something is too hard to look up or work out for myself, I just imagine myself in the witness box trying to explain why not to a $2000 a day barrister hired by the aircraft insurance company
Looking back at your post, maybe I can be helpful as well as lecture
First, read up on the limits from the flight manual.
Then, look up the technique. How much flap, when to retract it.
The main issue is that you want to be under control, and fly away from the ground and any obstacles in your path. Minimize sink, maximise climb GRADIENT over rate if there are obstacles in your way.
(Flying instructors jump in right here for technique)
Make sure you know the speeds for the conditions, including the weights.
Speaking of speeds, remember that Speed is a result of Power plus Attitude. Heard that before?! So know the Attitude that gives you the Performance. Power will be Maximum, of course.
In C210's and C402's I was told to rotate to 7 to 8 degrees nose up after takeoff and in a go around. In Metros and in my current ride it is 10-12 degrees initially. This was the ballpark attitude. Make sure you have Max Power and adjust the attitude to give you the speed that gives you the rate.
Know the drills, Mixture Up Pitch Up Power Up, Pirtch to the go round attitude, positive rate gear up or whatever your ops manual/operators handbook says.
Practice it. Practice it again. Practice it until I could ask you the correct actions when you are p!ssed and you will still get it right, like all your emergency actions.
Now for the war story.
Tennant Creek, 4.30 am, dark, overcast, light drizzle, a mild night. Rain getting a little heavier, very pleased with self that I dropped off the papers and refuelled before the rain came in. About 200kg of newspapers for Alice, full tanks in my C210, well under max TOW, start up and taxi out to RW25. Review safety brief, take another look out the window, rain a little heavier but steady, wind steady at 15 knots from the west, has swung a little. Checks done, off we go.
Power is good, airborne, gear up, just about to turn left to intercept track, then the rain on the windshield starts hammering! Hey, at 100 knots IAS I am going DOWN!!
Self refers to checklist on which I had written Vy and Vx for heavy and moderate loads. Self decides to fly Vx!! Rain is really hammering now, and the ride is getting rough. Self then pushes throttle into the instrument panel and checks gear up, prop fine, mixture rich. VSI staggering between 200 fpm up and down. Self recalls that self is about 300 agl at last look and below the LSALT, MSA and pretty soon outside the circling area if not already. Self thinks 'this is a stupid job.' Made a turn west, away from the high ground. After a heart stopping VSI indication of 500 fpm down, the needle reverses and I shoot up like a cork from a bottle and the rain on the windshield goes quiet.
Looking back on it, I have to say that I wasn't as sharp on my technique as I could have been. I never practiced go arounds, I probably only did them on base checks, I never thought of the fact that the opposite direction of my departure runway had a VASIS and was therefore surveyed out to 5 nm, I never thought of putting the CDI on the runway heading to make use of the no obstacles area off TNK RW35. I never thought of noting the location of obstacles as VOR radials marking no-go areas.
So I survived on pure @rse with a good dollop of fear induced emergency actions. Thank chr!st I had written down the best angle speed and had it right under my nose.
Flight Service had my taxi call, but not my departure. It was all over before ten minutes was up. And nobody would have known where to look for me -- single com on CTAF and too bloody busy to dial up another freq! I could have been anywhere within a twenty mile radius of a remote town on a rainy night.
It was a stupid job
I'm sure that others will say -- you should have done this, you should have done that. Some will say I should'nt have been there in a single engine aircraft. But that would be missing the point-- it was all engines operating and giving a better RoC than a heavily loaded C402 or Baron. And I know that there were better ways to prepare and carry out the situation - now!!
Anyway, thats one for Mr Hat. Be ready, it could happen to you tomorrow.
YMML is on the money. Take a peek at the performance charts in the flight manual. Don't go by what 'tips' you may get here unless you verify them for yourself, some of the information will be knee jerk stuff dragged out as "I remember when"
Not that I have ever done that
Why not work out the worst case and come up with a few rules of thumb that cover most of your ops, and warn you when it is time to refer to the book.
Eg.
"Eleven at Thirty Five or Less." In the Top End in a particular light twin, I knew that a charter to a hard surface runway of 1100m or better at OAT of 35c or less with no obstacles in the overshoot would meet requirements. If the temp was higher, or the TODA/TORA was less, it was time to refer to the P charts.
Why not go to the chart for your type, pick the hottest OAT for your area of operation, then make a note of the climb weight limit?
Too hard? Or "I am in the bush"? Then imagine this scenario
(background, smoking C210)
Chief Pilot: "So Bill, how come it didn't go up when you went around?"
Bill chooses his answer:
(a) "Dunno, it was chockers, boss, and I did combine two jobs to get $600 per hour."
(b) "I used this rule of thumb that I got off Pprune from some guy I never met. I never checked it, but he was a bit of a legend by the way he talked."
(c) "Boss, it ran up ok this morning, it hasn't missed a beat all day, I flew it like the book says and I was about 50 kg under the climb weight limit."
Whenever I think that maybe something is too hard to look up or work out for myself, I just imagine myself in the witness box trying to explain why not to a $2000 a day barrister hired by the aircraft insurance company
Looking back at your post, maybe I can be helpful as well as lecture
First, read up on the limits from the flight manual.
Then, look up the technique. How much flap, when to retract it.
The main issue is that you want to be under control, and fly away from the ground and any obstacles in your path. Minimize sink, maximise climb GRADIENT over rate if there are obstacles in your way.
(Flying instructors jump in right here for technique)
Make sure you know the speeds for the conditions, including the weights.
Speaking of speeds, remember that Speed is a result of Power plus Attitude. Heard that before?! So know the Attitude that gives you the Performance. Power will be Maximum, of course.
In C210's and C402's I was told to rotate to 7 to 8 degrees nose up after takeoff and in a go around. In Metros and in my current ride it is 10-12 degrees initially. This was the ballpark attitude. Make sure you have Max Power and adjust the attitude to give you the speed that gives you the rate.
Know the drills, Mixture Up Pitch Up Power Up, Pirtch to the go round attitude, positive rate gear up or whatever your ops manual/operators handbook says.
Practice it. Practice it again. Practice it until I could ask you the correct actions when you are p!ssed and you will still get it right, like all your emergency actions.
Now for the war story.
Tennant Creek, 4.30 am, dark, overcast, light drizzle, a mild night. Rain getting a little heavier, very pleased with self that I dropped off the papers and refuelled before the rain came in. About 200kg of newspapers for Alice, full tanks in my C210, well under max TOW, start up and taxi out to RW25. Review safety brief, take another look out the window, rain a little heavier but steady, wind steady at 15 knots from the west, has swung a little. Checks done, off we go.
Power is good, airborne, gear up, just about to turn left to intercept track, then the rain on the windshield starts hammering! Hey, at 100 knots IAS I am going DOWN!!
Self refers to checklist on which I had written Vy and Vx for heavy and moderate loads. Self decides to fly Vx!! Rain is really hammering now, and the ride is getting rough. Self then pushes throttle into the instrument panel and checks gear up, prop fine, mixture rich. VSI staggering between 200 fpm up and down. Self recalls that self is about 300 agl at last look and below the LSALT, MSA and pretty soon outside the circling area if not already. Self thinks 'this is a stupid job.' Made a turn west, away from the high ground. After a heart stopping VSI indication of 500 fpm down, the needle reverses and I shoot up like a cork from a bottle and the rain on the windshield goes quiet.
Looking back on it, I have to say that I wasn't as sharp on my technique as I could have been. I never practiced go arounds, I probably only did them on base checks, I never thought of the fact that the opposite direction of my departure runway had a VASIS and was therefore surveyed out to 5 nm, I never thought of putting the CDI on the runway heading to make use of the no obstacles area off TNK RW35. I never thought of noting the location of obstacles as VOR radials marking no-go areas.
So I survived on pure @rse with a good dollop of fear induced emergency actions. Thank chr!st I had written down the best angle speed and had it right under my nose.
Flight Service had my taxi call, but not my departure. It was all over before ten minutes was up. And nobody would have known where to look for me -- single com on CTAF and too bloody busy to dial up another freq! I could have been anywhere within a twenty mile radius of a remote town on a rainy night.
It was a stupid job
I'm sure that others will say -- you should have done this, you should have done that. Some will say I should'nt have been there in a single engine aircraft. But that would be missing the point-- it was all engines operating and giving a better RoC than a heavily loaded C402 or Baron. And I know that there were better ways to prepare and carry out the situation - now!!
Anyway, thats one for Mr Hat. Be ready, it could happen to you tomorrow.
Last edited by ITCZ; 10th Jan 2003 at 09:41.
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ITCZ - What a great post.
When I started the topic. I probably didn't make my self clear.
When I said "tips" I meant exactly what you covered: ie "I never thought of noting the location of obstacles as VOR radials marking no-go areas."
We are supposed to be perfect when we leave as fresh CPL's as we have covered everything required by the syllabus. However I have found these tip bits here and there extreemly useful. Most probably they were covered during my training - I was at times on information overload and most probably didn't here some of them (Vor radials vs obstacles). Slowly I'm putting together the safest way of doing everything by asking people about there experiences and then going away and thinking about it. I'm not talking about dodgy techniques but small rules of thumb and things that can reduce workload when the pressure is on.
When I said "stories" - your one at Tennant had me glued.
Your "Eleven at Thirty Five or Less." idea I already use and its a great one. We have a laminated card in each plane. In addtion to that we have a small laminated card with key speeds and weights on the instrument panel. Oh and before some clowndog says you "should know them all anyway" I can say "I do but the card helps the newbies out when the **** hits the fan".
Finally a nice reminder the comparison between the loaded Baron/402 vs the 210.
Once again thanks and if anyone else has anything to add please do .
When I started the topic. I probably didn't make my self clear.
When I said "tips" I meant exactly what you covered: ie "I never thought of noting the location of obstacles as VOR radials marking no-go areas."
We are supposed to be perfect when we leave as fresh CPL's as we have covered everything required by the syllabus. However I have found these tip bits here and there extreemly useful. Most probably they were covered during my training - I was at times on information overload and most probably didn't here some of them (Vor radials vs obstacles). Slowly I'm putting together the safest way of doing everything by asking people about there experiences and then going away and thinking about it. I'm not talking about dodgy techniques but small rules of thumb and things that can reduce workload when the pressure is on.
When I said "stories" - your one at Tennant had me glued.
Your "Eleven at Thirty Five or Less." idea I already use and its a great one. We have a laminated card in each plane. In addtion to that we have a small laminated card with key speeds and weights on the instrument panel. Oh and before some clowndog says you "should know them all anyway" I can say "I do but the card helps the newbies out when the **** hits the fan".
Finally a nice reminder the comparison between the loaded Baron/402 vs the 210.
Once again thanks and if anyone else has anything to add please do
.
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 11th Jan 2003 at 04:39.
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No worries, Mr H.
It seems strange that I had to wait until I was in an airline environment before I really started getting all the tips that would have been perhaps more useful when I was in lower performance aeroplanes that were going into much more limited strips!
A bit of a sad reflection on GA really that the general quality of chief pilot is low along with the operational support, mainly coz being a GA Chief Pilot is one of the toughest jobs in aviaiton.
Back onto the Go-Around topic...
There are really three issues that should be considered:[list=1][*]Aircraft Performance[*]Flying Technique[*]"Micro" flight planning[/list=1]
1. You should know from your 'groundschool' or check flight + introduction to line flying of the new type (to you) what the aircraft is capable of in different situations. That is, what it can and cannot do. You should know about the climb weight limit, you should know how to calculate it, and you should have your 'rule of thumb' to remind you of occasions when you should consult the P-charts.
2. Once you are armed with the 'engineering data' of what your aeroplane can and cannot do, you then need to review how you actually go about doing it. Manufacturer's handbook for the type, company operations manual, engine manufacturer's handbook, and your notes and jottings from PPL and CPL groundschool come in handy here. As I mentioned before, primary goal is to transition from flying towards the ground (comfortably under control) to flying AWAY from the ground, comfortably under control. You should know what you are trying to achieve (ie Vx or Vy?), and what configuration, attitude and power setting will acheive it. Don't forget that large trim changes may be required. You should have this arranged into a well-practiced drill so that you have plenty of brainspace to cope with the situation that made you go around.
3. The next step is to 'micro' plan for the actual situations you may find yourself in. PNG pilots have to do this all the time. F'rinstance, the flat wide strip at South Goulbourn Island presents a different scenerio to that of a strip like Rurru or Maparu in East Arnhem, both of which have tall trees at either end. Likewise a place like Bulman or Narbarlek where terrain is an issue. There may be no point in flying a max performance climb in a go around if the flight path you choose has a gradient that the aircraft cannot meet however well you fly it. The best thing to do is look at the strips you will regularly fly to and assess them for potential problems, then scribble out on a notepad a rough diagram of the runway and environs, add your standard arrival route and circuit(s) and then think about "if I had to go around here, where would I go, and here, where? and here, where?. The problems may include airspace as well as obstacles.
Have a think about the requirments of airport planning and approach chart design if you are lucky enough to go to a field that has an approach -- VFR pilots are allowed to read this stuff too.
For example, remember that you can do visual approaches straight in to a VASIS runway at night from 5nm, 7nm if ILS, etc etc. That must mean that there is at least a 5% obstacle free gradient for 5 (or7) nm! Use the ERSA/Airport directory info to work out if there is a significant gradient when you fly the reciprocal of the listed runways as a go-around.
Use the Cat B circling minima to tell you what altitude will give you 300' obstacle clearance within the circling area. Then start thinking like "I will climb ahead until I reach the circling minima, then I will turn west to stay away from the high ground and fly circling minima or better and keep it within 2.66nm until i make the MSA, etc etc.
Note locations of high ground and note their position as between this radial and that radial or this dme and that dme distance.
Again, f'rinstance: you can avoid infringing R233 at YBAS by noting that if you keep south of the 235 radial, or north of the 287 radial, or east of 4dme west, or west of 15 dme west of Alice, you have the boundaries of that restricted area including navaid tolerances. (of course you could also climb to FL180 or better ).
Its a case of applying yourself like a professional to a known potential problem. And if you are like most boggie pilots doing remote area work, you will have plenty of time to look at it when you are holed up in your donga or when waiting for pax!
Three things -- aircraft performance, correct technique, and a plan before it hits the fan.
Is that the kind of stuff you are looking for?
It seems strange that I had to wait until I was in an airline environment before I really started getting all the tips that would have been perhaps more useful when I was in lower performance aeroplanes that were going into much more limited strips!
A bit of a sad reflection on GA really that the general quality of chief pilot is low along with the operational support, mainly coz being a GA Chief Pilot is one of the toughest jobs in aviaiton.
Back onto the Go-Around topic...
There are really three issues that should be considered:[list=1][*]Aircraft Performance[*]Flying Technique[*]"Micro" flight planning[/list=1]
1. You should know from your 'groundschool' or check flight + introduction to line flying of the new type (to you) what the aircraft is capable of in different situations. That is, what it can and cannot do. You should know about the climb weight limit, you should know how to calculate it, and you should have your 'rule of thumb' to remind you of occasions when you should consult the P-charts.
2. Once you are armed with the 'engineering data' of what your aeroplane can and cannot do, you then need to review how you actually go about doing it. Manufacturer's handbook for the type, company operations manual, engine manufacturer's handbook, and your notes and jottings from PPL and CPL groundschool come in handy here. As I mentioned before, primary goal is to transition from flying towards the ground (comfortably under control) to flying AWAY from the ground, comfortably under control. You should know what you are trying to achieve (ie Vx or Vy?), and what configuration, attitude and power setting will acheive it. Don't forget that large trim changes may be required. You should have this arranged into a well-practiced drill so that you have plenty of brainspace to cope with the situation that made you go around.
3. The next step is to 'micro' plan for the actual situations you may find yourself in. PNG pilots have to do this all the time. F'rinstance, the flat wide strip at South Goulbourn Island presents a different scenerio to that of a strip like Rurru or Maparu in East Arnhem, both of which have tall trees at either end. Likewise a place like Bulman or Narbarlek where terrain is an issue. There may be no point in flying a max performance climb in a go around if the flight path you choose has a gradient that the aircraft cannot meet however well you fly it. The best thing to do is look at the strips you will regularly fly to and assess them for potential problems, then scribble out on a notepad a rough diagram of the runway and environs, add your standard arrival route and circuit(s) and then think about "if I had to go around here, where would I go, and here, where? and here, where?. The problems may include airspace as well as obstacles.
Have a think about the requirments of airport planning and approach chart design if you are lucky enough to go to a field that has an approach -- VFR pilots are allowed to read this stuff too.
For example, remember that you can do visual approaches straight in to a VASIS runway at night from 5nm, 7nm if ILS, etc etc. That must mean that there is at least a 5% obstacle free gradient for 5 (or7) nm! Use the ERSA/Airport directory info to work out if there is a significant gradient when you fly the reciprocal of the listed runways as a go-around.
Use the Cat B circling minima to tell you what altitude will give you 300' obstacle clearance within the circling area. Then start thinking like "I will climb ahead until I reach the circling minima, then I will turn west to stay away from the high ground and fly circling minima or better and keep it within 2.66nm until i make the MSA, etc etc.
Note locations of high ground and note their position as between this radial and that radial or this dme and that dme distance.
Again, f'rinstance: you can avoid infringing R233 at YBAS by noting that if you keep south of the 235 radial, or north of the 287 radial, or east of 4dme west, or west of 15 dme west of Alice, you have the boundaries of that restricted area including navaid tolerances. (of course you could also climb to FL180 or better
).Its a case of applying yourself like a professional to a known potential problem. And if you are like most boggie pilots doing remote area work, you will have plenty of time to look at it when you are holed up in your donga or when waiting for pax!
Three things -- aircraft performance, correct technique, and a plan before it hits the fan.
Is that the kind of stuff you are looking for?
DME Arrival plates from DAP or Jepps are good source to get some idea of obstacle clearances.
NB: So are topo. charts & local knowledge eg stay left of this rock/that house
Make sure you know where the low(er) terrain lies.
Also make sure you know where the high(er) terrain lies so you know where NOT to go...
At MLW in the ldg config for your area's typical D.Ht. conditions how much altitude & how much room is needed from applying full power to achieving a climb in an appropriate configuration? What sequence will you use? And why?
Make up standard W&B data cards for common situations eg 1 pax, 2 pax etc + how much freight can then be carried.
Make up sample T/off & LDG data using (reasonable) worst case inputs. As long as no item is worse than any of your sample data you know you meet or exceed the requirements.
At the planning stage do you make use of the a/c's x/wind limit as a headwind component on a shorter cross runway? If the x/wind limit is exceeded on the main runway then you may legitimately use the a/c crosswind limit to obtain a component of headwind on a crossing runway.
The logic is that you plan to use the long runway/nil HWC in the LDG chart but if you need to use the alternate RWY due to an exceeded X/wind limit, there will be at least the x/wind limit as a headwind component.
Not applicable to single strips of course.
The general aim is to always be thinking about what could go wrong & then devising alternatives to counter it.
Off topic but how many pilots can plan 'milk runs' nowadays? It used to be part of the Performance & Operation CPL exam but isn't covered anymore. AFAIK it's no longer in the syllabus...
NB: So are topo. charts & local knowledge eg stay left of this rock/that house
Make sure you know where the low(er) terrain lies.
Also make sure you know where the high(er) terrain lies so you know where NOT to go...
At MLW in the ldg config for your area's typical D.Ht. conditions how much altitude & how much room is needed from applying full power to achieving a climb in an appropriate configuration? What sequence will you use? And why?
Make up standard W&B data cards for common situations eg 1 pax, 2 pax etc + how much freight can then be carried.
Make up sample T/off & LDG data using (reasonable) worst case inputs. As long as no item is worse than any of your sample data you know you meet or exceed the requirements.
At the planning stage do you make use of the a/c's x/wind limit as a headwind component on a shorter cross runway? If the x/wind limit is exceeded on the main runway then you may legitimately use the a/c crosswind limit to obtain a component of headwind on a crossing runway.
The logic is that you plan to use the long runway/nil HWC in the LDG chart but if you need to use the alternate RWY due to an exceeded X/wind limit, there will be at least the x/wind limit as a headwind component.
Not applicable to single strips of course.
The general aim is to always be thinking about what could go wrong & then devising alternatives to counter it.
Off topic but how many pilots can plan 'milk runs' nowadays? It used to be part of the Performance & Operation CPL exam but isn't covered anymore. AFAIK it's no longer in the syllabus...
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okay, ITCZ put it a LOT better then i
since my reply in hindsight was very lousy
i do still stand by one thing i said, judge each situation on its merits. There is no generic answer as to if you should go round or not
since my reply in hindsight was very lousy
i do still stand by one thing i said, judge each situation on its merits. There is no generic answer as to if you should go round or not
Props are for boats!
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Very Good Post ITCZ,
I have a little story myself related to your own operation. I was rung up one evening/morning in Darwin at 230am by my boss, it was raining cats and dogs outside. The request was " Alice C210 now Paper Run for ***** 345am departure can you do it?", thought I was dreaming so I hung up , then the phone rung again " Comeon man your the only guy Ive got left, the rest just got back from Rourkes" . I replied "Ok I ll go".
Got to the airport, the other Pilot from***** was there he said he'd help me plan and load etc. Still raining cats and dogs. Did the plan found out that between Tennant and Katherine was over 2 hrs without a fix and had no DME or approved GPS. So rang the boss and said got to do it in the C402 because:
1. what I just said and
2. The Baron didnt have the payload with the holding requirements.Even less than the C210 payload with same holding requirements.
Was relieved a little as I didnt fancy flogging a single 700odd miles in the dark in #### weather.
I dont know how you guys did that run ITCZ and to think a company did it in C182s at one stage.
Loaded the Aircraft transfered the freight from ***** C210 to my C402B ( MARKEDLY performance difference to a C402C I might add)
Noticed the ****** C210 was some damage around the lowered cowl, I asked what happened the Pilot said to me. I had an Engine Fire 15 minutes out of Darwin. I stood in disbelief, on a night like this, I thought, count your lucky stars. His story is another one, back to mine anyway.
So taxied the weather was still average with strong winds but the ATIS and TAFS etc were ok so I proceeded to taxi got to the holding point the controller asked me of all things " ABC unable to see outside at the moment due rain do you have requireed RVR or 2000 m 300 . I gauged the vis in the runway lighting 3500m and the ceiling according to the ATIS was 600 so that was in tolerance. Also above the R29ILS Minima I might allways take that into consideration too guys.
Well everyone must be thinking does this guy know Murphys Law?
Anyway the departure was a bit of a washing machine depature a bit like ITCZs elegantly described one. Had sink rate of around 100-50 feet a minute maitained Vx until under control with a good positive climb then accelerated to normal climb, (been awhile since C402b have no book speeds where I am excuse me). No problems really, as departing runway 29 at Darwin once youve past around 1DME its all Arafura sea and if you maintain the SID you have no problem.
Rules to remmember in a sink rate (ie.microburst or whatever)
1. Speeds as ITCZ said have them fresh
2. Attitude to get those speeds have them fresh
3. Alllways keep the aircraft on the intended flight path
within reason re-evaluating if necessary.
4. Full power, if Turbo charged to the limits, then if no joy Firewall it.
If persay the outcome was the worst possible atleast the BASI officers or who ever it is these days, would see you Throttles would be in the right position.
Now back to the C210 well after chatting to the lucky Pilot. He described his ordeal as a Miracle. It had got below minimas at Darwin after his departure, so was radar vectored onto final with an Engine on fire and partial power. Not sure what gave way in the donk, but he has to count his lucky stars.
Anyway thats it
Regards
Sheep
P.S. Moral to the story if ya Boss rings you up in similair conditions, switch ya phone off.
I have a little story myself related to your own operation. I was rung up one evening/morning in Darwin at 230am by my boss, it was raining cats and dogs outside. The request was " Alice C210 now Paper Run for ***** 345am departure can you do it?", thought I was dreaming so I hung up , then the phone rung again " Comeon man your the only guy Ive got left, the rest just got back from Rourkes" . I replied "Ok I ll go".
Got to the airport, the other Pilot from***** was there he said he'd help me plan and load etc. Still raining cats and dogs. Did the plan found out that between Tennant and Katherine was over 2 hrs without a fix and had no DME or approved GPS. So rang the boss and said got to do it in the C402 because:
1. what I just said and
2. The Baron didnt have the payload with the holding requirements.Even less than the C210 payload with same holding requirements.
Was relieved a little as I didnt fancy flogging a single 700odd miles in the dark in #### weather.
I dont know how you guys did that run ITCZ and to think a company did it in C182s at one stage.
Loaded the Aircraft transfered the freight from ***** C210 to my C402B ( MARKEDLY performance difference to a C402C I might add)
Noticed the ****** C210 was some damage around the lowered cowl, I asked what happened the Pilot said to me. I had an Engine Fire 15 minutes out of Darwin. I stood in disbelief, on a night like this, I thought, count your lucky stars. His story is another one, back to mine anyway.
So taxied the weather was still average with strong winds but the ATIS and TAFS etc were ok so I proceeded to taxi got to the holding point the controller asked me of all things " ABC unable to see outside at the moment due rain do you have requireed RVR or 2000 m 300 . I gauged the vis in the runway lighting 3500m and the ceiling according to the ATIS was 600 so that was in tolerance. Also above the R29ILS Minima I might allways take that into consideration too guys.
Well everyone must be thinking does this guy know Murphys Law?
Anyway the departure was a bit of a washing machine depature a bit like ITCZs elegantly described one. Had sink rate of around 100-50 feet a minute maitained Vx until under control with a good positive climb then accelerated to normal climb, (been awhile since C402b have no book speeds where I am excuse me). No problems really, as departing runway 29 at Darwin once youve past around 1DME its all Arafura sea and if you maintain the SID you have no problem.
Rules to remmember in a sink rate (ie.microburst or whatever)
1. Speeds as ITCZ said have them fresh
2. Attitude to get those speeds have them fresh
3. Alllways keep the aircraft on the intended flight path
within reason re-evaluating if necessary.
4. Full power, if Turbo charged to the limits, then if no joy Firewall it.
If persay the outcome was the worst possible atleast the BASI officers or who ever it is these days, would see you Throttles would be in the right position.
Now back to the C210 well after chatting to the lucky Pilot. He described his ordeal as a Miracle. It had got below minimas at Darwin after his departure, so was radar vectored onto final with an Engine on fire and partial power. Not sure what gave way in the donk, but he has to count his lucky stars.
Anyway thats it
Regards
Sheep
P.S. Moral to the story if ya Boss rings you up in similair conditions, switch ya phone off.
Last edited by Sheep Guts; 17th Jan 2003 at 01:40.
