YSBK - YWOL, the best way??
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YSBK - YWOL, the best way??
Hey guys,
Im based in Melbourne and am flying up to Bankstown for a couple of days and then down to Wollongong for AVIEX.
Just wondering what is the best way from YSBK to YWOL?? Ive had a look at the VTC and there are a lot of restricted areas and danger areas and controlled airspace as well as the associated traffic
Ive just gotten my PPL recently and have had a little bit of experience with radar vectoring and airways clearance and the like however i am restricted to VFR
One instructor recommended that i just grab an airways clearance from SY Departures and fly direct at 6500 getting vectored and the like. At the moment this is the idea im leaning towards because it seems a lot simpler as well as being fairly direct. However i may not be able to get that clearance or it may take some time.
Another way that has been suggested is to go out towards Camden and loop around, which im not so keen on doing mainly coz its a lot longer distance and the problem of keeping out of all those red areas.
What do you guys think? Is it better with an airways clearance assuming i get it? What are the chances of getting an airways clearance or will i just be told to hold and wait for ages?? Or is the OCTA way the best??
The trip will be done in an Archer II and the aim of the trip is to get experience in a different environment to the one im currently in.
Thanks in advance?
Im based in Melbourne and am flying up to Bankstown for a couple of days and then down to Wollongong for AVIEX.
Just wondering what is the best way from YSBK to YWOL?? Ive had a look at the VTC and there are a lot of restricted areas and danger areas and controlled airspace as well as the associated traffic
Ive just gotten my PPL recently and have had a little bit of experience with radar vectoring and airways clearance and the like however i am restricted to VFR
One instructor recommended that i just grab an airways clearance from SY Departures and fly direct at 6500 getting vectored and the like. At the moment this is the idea im leaning towards because it seems a lot simpler as well as being fairly direct. However i may not be able to get that clearance or it may take some time.
Another way that has been suggested is to go out towards Camden and loop around, which im not so keen on doing mainly coz its a lot longer distance and the problem of keeping out of all those red areas.
What do you guys think? Is it better with an airways clearance assuming i get it? What are the chances of getting an airways clearance or will i just be told to hold and wait for ages?? Or is the OCTA way the best??
The trip will be done in an Archer II and the aim of the trip is to get experience in a different environment to the one im currently in.
Thanks in advance?
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If you lodge your plan and depart on time you shouldnt have any dramas getting an airways clearance. However you wont get it from SY Dep, BK ground will give it to you when you call taxiing. It will also depend on what runway is in use at SY. If they're using 07 then expect delays, or expect to be vectored out wide. Thats if they give you a clearance at all...
If not, then just go OCTA. Its not that much longer and navigating clear of the restricted areas is easy. Depart over the top of YHOX and keep the Freeway to your left. If you have DME then you can stay under the control steps easily. If your in doubt then you can always ask SY Radar for assistance. Once clear of the restricted area, bank left and shoot for WOL.
Too easy.... Have fun.
SF
If not, then just go OCTA. Its not that much longer and navigating clear of the restricted areas is easy. Depart over the top of YHOX and keep the Freeway to your left. If you have DME then you can stay under the control steps easily. If your in doubt then you can always ask SY Radar for assistance. Once clear of the restricted area, bank left and shoot for WOL.
Too easy.... Have fun.
SF
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You'll find the visual cues reasonably easy from Bankstown to Camden and as previously mentioned, DME from will help with the control steps. Camden NDB is useful also. Good visual fixes heading to the Gong also. Have you given any thought to departing up the lane and cutting across to LongReef and then Victor 1 southbound ? Seems a real shame to travel Bankstown to the Gong and NOT experience that route. Unless there is a compelling reason not to, that would be my choice. All VFR/OCTA unless you choose to dally over the harbour and it's not called a scenic for nothing. Either way, enjoy the new environment.
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Thanks guys for the replies so far.
Unfortunately no DME
so that part is out but by looking at the charts and with the advice so far i dont think that is a major drama.
The day before im heading to YSWOL ill be heading to the harbour and Victor 1 so it could depend how easy and how much i enjoy that one, i may do it again.
The way im looking at it, ill give the airways clearance a go, it gives me a chance to do some radar vectoring and controlled airspace work, and if i cant get that then just go over YHOX like skyfox suggested.
thanks guys
Unfortunately no DME
so that part is out but by looking at the charts and with the advice so far i dont think that is a major drama.The day before im heading to YSWOL ill be heading to the harbour and Victor 1 so it could depend how easy and how much i enjoy that one, i may do it again.
The way im looking at it, ill give the airways clearance a go, it gives me a chance to do some radar vectoring and controlled airspace work, and if i cant get that then just go over YHOX like skyfox suggested.
thanks guys
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So true 
Plus its a lot nicer inside and a little faster.
I was just too slow in booking it in.
FBF will do the job and at least ill be awake without the GPS.
Im looking forward to that burger at Albury though
See ya when i get back
Plus its a lot nicer inside and a little faster.I was just too slow in booking it in.
FBF will do the job and at least ill be awake without the GPS.
Im looking forward to that burger at Albury though
See ya when i get back
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The most scenic way is definately via Victor 1. However an easy to do it is to track to Appin from Bankstown and then direct to YWOL.
The Sydney Basin Visual Flight Guide page 66-69(Casa's Visual Flight Guide ) gives the headings to track from Appin to Bankstown via 2RN. The route avoids the red zones and has pretty pics of what to look for visually, so just do it in reverse....too easy.
Have fun and I'll see you at AVIEX.
The Sydney Basin Visual Flight Guide page 66-69(Casa's Visual Flight Guide ) gives the headings to track from Appin to Bankstown via 2RN. The route avoids the red zones and has pretty pics of what to look for visually, so just do it in reverse....too easy.
Have fun and I'll see you at AVIEX.
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Flying to WOL
Luca
I recommend swinging around the north of Hoxton Park (ie track rwy 29 centre line out bound) and then head south, staying east of the Camden CTR. Also, make sure you stay well away from the meat bombers at Wilton.
I'm not sure I'd use a reverse of the 2RN as Hairyman recommended - plenty of people use 2RN for their inbound and you might find opposing traffic in your 12 oclock. However, although I haven't done that, it might be an OK way to go (hairyman, apologies if this IS a legit way out).
The two reservoirs Cordeaux and Cataract are brilliant for this trip, and the run south goes straight over the top of both - can't miss 'em.
Another thing - be aware of traffic inbound to Camden from the VFR inbound points, particularly Menangle, and of gliders SE of Camden. On the day you're going, though, I suspect CN traffic will be heading the same way you will be.
Hope you have a good flight. Hairyman's flight guide suggestion is a good one.
Cheers
LT - DT
I recommend swinging around the north of Hoxton Park (ie track rwy 29 centre line out bound) and then head south, staying east of the Camden CTR. Also, make sure you stay well away from the meat bombers at Wilton.
I'm not sure I'd use a reverse of the 2RN as Hairyman recommended - plenty of people use 2RN for their inbound and you might find opposing traffic in your 12 oclock. However, although I haven't done that, it might be an OK way to go (hairyman, apologies if this IS a legit way out).
The two reservoirs Cordeaux and Cataract are brilliant for this trip, and the run south goes straight over the top of both - can't miss 'em.
Another thing - be aware of traffic inbound to Camden from the VFR inbound points, particularly Menangle, and of gliders SE of Camden. On the day you're going, though, I suspect CN traffic will be heading the same way you will be.
Hope you have a good flight. Hairyman's flight guide suggestion is a good one.
Cheers
LT - DT
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Hi,
I've flown that route many times.
The easiest is to do a CTA Departure out of YSBK, if 07/25 is in operation you'll be vectored for a short time, told to climb to 1500 ad track Sutherland-Wollongong. As soon as you pop into that 1500ft step they'll cease your CTA services and you go on your way OCTA.
If 07/25 isn't in use you'll have no issues getting a higher level, probably not 6500' though as that is non standard, as its an easterly track you'll have to go 5500 or 7500, go 5500 as that puts you out of CTA before YWOL so you can organise your own descent etc.
If you decide to go the Victor 1 option, don't track all the way to LRF. Go YSBK-PRT-HBG-Victor 1 its quicker and more scenic as you get the Parra River, Homebush etc. You'll get this as long as 16 isn't busy at the time.
Have fun at Aviex!
I've flown that route many times.
The easiest is to do a CTA Departure out of YSBK, if 07/25 is in operation you'll be vectored for a short time, told to climb to 1500 ad track Sutherland-Wollongong. As soon as you pop into that 1500ft step they'll cease your CTA services and you go on your way OCTA.
If 07/25 isn't in use you'll have no issues getting a higher level, probably not 6500' though as that is non standard, as its an easterly track you'll have to go 5500 or 7500, go 5500 as that puts you out of CTA before YWOL so you can organise your own descent etc.
If you decide to go the Victor 1 option, don't track all the way to LRF. Go YSBK-PRT-HBG-Victor 1 its quicker and more scenic as you get the Parra River, Homebush etc. You'll get this as long as 16 isn't busy at the time.
Have fun at Aviex!
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Hi stormywx - I'm also going to be flying to the 'Gong from Bankstown when visiting Sydney in January and interested in the route you describe, which sounds ideal as we'll be able to wave at Mum's house if we can fly along the Parra river...
Question, where is HBG? Couldn't find it in http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/pilot/d...NEY/SYDNEY.PDF and not sure where to look this sort of thing up?
Also, for the clearance would you just call Sydney Radar once airborne, or try to sort this out via FPL / Bankstown Ground?
Many thanks,
Question, where is HBG? Couldn't find it in http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/pilot/d...NEY/SYDNEY.PDF and not sure where to look this sort of thing up?
Also, for the clearance would you just call Sydney Radar once airborne, or try to sort this out via FPL / Bankstown Ground?
Many thanks,
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BK-WOL?
G'day Hoss & Aussie Andy
Harbour Bridge is HBB and as far as I can tell, HBG is 'Hamley Bridge', which is a helicopter landing site.
For an airways clearance ask for one when giving a taxi call on BK ground. They should have it ready for you when you get to the runup bay. There is a NOTAM I'm sure you've seen (C201/02 REVIEW C146/02) which eliminates the requirement for GAAP taxi calls unless certain requirements apply, eg an airways clearance.
Cheers
LT DT
Harbour Bridge is HBB and as far as I can tell, HBG is 'Hamley Bridge', which is a helicopter landing site.
For an airways clearance ask for one when giving a taxi call on BK ground. They should have it ready for you when you get to the runup bay. There is a NOTAM I'm sure you've seen (C201/02 REVIEW C146/02) which eliminates the requirement for GAAP taxi calls unless certain requirements apply, eg an airways clearance.
Cheers
LT DT
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Sorry HBG should have been HBB which is the Syd Harbour Bridge.
So track is YSBK-PRT-HBB-YWOL
You can't actually get that airways clearance off Bankstown groundfor this route, depart as you normally would via Crosswind and call Syd Radar on 124.55 approaching parramatta for a clearance. They'll pass you off to Departures.
It is really important that you put a flight plan into NAIPS for this route at least 30 mins before you takeoff to be sure that you'll get it.
Cheers
stormy
So track is YSBK-PRT-HBB-YWOL
You can't actually get that airways clearance off Bankstown groundfor this route, depart as you normally would via Crosswind and call Syd Radar on 124.55 approaching parramatta for a clearance. They'll pass you off to Departures.
It is really important that you put a flight plan into NAIPS for this route at least 30 mins before you takeoff to be sure that you'll get it.
Cheers
stormy
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"Land Clear" of Urban Area?
Gotcha guys - that's clear, thanks....
One last thing: do you have the same rules as we do in UK regarding being able to "land clear" of built-up areas in event of an engine failure? Here, this precludes single-engine ops over densely populated areas such as central London unless high enough (which is not possible as you can't get clearance through the London City Class D or SVFR through Heathrow TMA Class A airspace above about 1,000 or 1,500' depending where you are)...
I'd imagine if this is also the case in Australia, then I might not be legal trundling along the Parra river in single engine craft? But presumably you've different rules, in which case any light you can shed on the rules will be appreciate.
Thanks guys... and, yet again, Pprune Rules!
One last thing: do you have the same rules as we do in UK regarding being able to "land clear" of built-up areas in event of an engine failure? Here, this precludes single-engine ops over densely populated areas such as central London unless high enough (which is not possible as you can't get clearance through the London City Class D or SVFR through Heathrow TMA Class A airspace above about 1,000 or 1,500' depending where you are)...
Aeroplanes are not permitted to fly over any congested area below a height of 1500 feet above the highest fixed object within 600 metres of the aircraft or below a height which would enable the aircraft to land clear in the event of the failure of a power unit, whichever is the higher (ref here)
Thanks guys... and, yet again, Pprune Rules!
Last edited by Aussie Andy; 13th Nov 2002 at 12:28.
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From PRT continue to track north to Pennant Hills and call Syd Terminal 135.10 for clearance. They'll give you a code and palm you off to Syd Departures at LRF on (I think) 123.00. Thats if your gonna do some laps in the Harbour.
Otherwise you can just remain OCTA and track down Victor 1. Just remember to broadcast on the Victor 1 frequency.
Otherwise you can just remain OCTA and track down Victor 1. Just remember to broadcast on the Victor 1 frequency.
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Its fine to fly along the river at the height you desire.
Re the above post, don't go all the way to Pennant Hills/LRF its a waste of time and effort if you can get a clearance earlier which you can most the time along the river.
Re the above post, don't go all the way to Pennant Hills/LRF its a waste of time and effort if you can get a clearance earlier which you can most the time along the river.
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Sorry I missed this post, a bit late now... but let me know how you went considering the wx situation this weekend
For the benefit of the tape, the preferred routes would be
1/ OCTA via Hornsby, St Ives, Long Reef, then Victor 1 and coastal to WOL. (great scenic also)
2/ CTA @ 1500' via Picnic Point, Sutherland, Stanwell Park, coastal to WOL -- but this route would probably not be available during SY RWY 07 arrivals
3/ OCTA via YHOX, YSCN then Cordeaux (includes transit of some training/danger areas)
The suggestion of trk PRT-HBB is not normally available when SY RWY 16 arrivals or SY RWY 34 departures.
For the benefit of the tape, the preferred routes would be
1/ OCTA via Hornsby, St Ives, Long Reef, then Victor 1 and coastal to WOL. (great scenic also)
2/ CTA @ 1500' via Picnic Point, Sutherland, Stanwell Park, coastal to WOL -- but this route would probably not be available during SY RWY 07 arrivals
3/ OCTA via YHOX, YSCN then Cordeaux (includes transit of some training/danger areas)
The suggestion of trk PRT-HBB is not normally available when SY RWY 16 arrivals or SY RWY 34 departures.
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Thanks guys
Hey guys,
Thanks for all your help and assistance but as it turned out it wasnt required
The bushfires over Mittagong and Bowral forced me to turn back firstly to Goulborn and then after finding no one there, onto Canberra. (Thanks to all the Canberra Approach and Tower guys who helped me with this very hurried diversion)
But i wasnt too unhappy with that because once i arrived in Sydney (by train) i found the weather pretty crappy and more than happy my aircraft was in sunny Canberra.
I will be trying again in January so hopefully the weather will be a lot kinder then and even if it isnt, ill have an idea of what to do if it all goes wrong.
BTW, how did you find AVIEX hairyman??? I found it quite boring and overrated myself, but it could have been just me. These a thread over on Reporting Points about it which has been interesting reading so far. Be interested to see how you and any one else who went found it.
Thanks for all your help and assistance but as it turned out it wasnt required
The bushfires over Mittagong and Bowral forced me to turn back firstly to Goulborn and then after finding no one there, onto Canberra. (Thanks to all the Canberra Approach and Tower guys who helped me with this very hurried diversion)
But i wasnt too unhappy with that because once i arrived in Sydney (by train) i found the weather pretty crappy and more than happy my aircraft was in sunny Canberra.
I will be trying again in January so hopefully the weather will be a lot kinder then and even if it isnt, ill have an idea of what to do if it all goes wrong.
BTW, how did you find AVIEX hairyman??? I found it quite boring and overrated myself, but it could have been just me. These a thread over on Reporting Points about it which has been interesting reading so far. Be interested to see how you and any one else who went found it.
