What are we really worth?
Thread Starter
What are we really worth?
Having a conversation with Mrs Stall the other day about pilots and wages etc. and comparing her and her friends wages with mine. Then the discussion came around to what pilots should be paid. I pose it to the group, what do we feel the following pilots earn? To keep it simple I make it line pilots who have been employed in the postion for say 18 months.
1. Grade 3 junior instructor
2. Grade One Multi engine instructor
3. Single Engine VFR charter (piston)
4. Multi Engine IFR charter (piston)
5. Turbine F/O (metro)
6. Turbine Captain (metro)
7. Dash-8 F/O
8. Dash-8 Capt
9. 737 F/O
10. 737 Capt.
1. Grade 3 junior instructor
2. Grade One Multi engine instructor
3. Single Engine VFR charter (piston)
4. Multi Engine IFR charter (piston)
5. Turbine F/O (metro)
6. Turbine Captain (metro)
7. Dash-8 F/O
8. Dash-8 Capt
9. 737 F/O
10. 737 Capt.
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Compressor Stall You forgot 4a, Chief Pilot, GA Charter and 4b, Chief Pilot, RPT low capacity.
Most of you already have experienced the common misbelief held by your non-aviation friends/aquaintenances that we all earn 6 figure salaries.
In fact we often earn less than half that of schoolteachers we fly around ( after several years they get $55,000 pa, plus 10 weeks leave per annum and they don't work Sat, Sun and public holidays).
They are usually stunned to hear what their pilot really gets paid. And the greatest risk they face in their job is a sexual harassment charge, hardly life threatening.
Even in RFDS, the pilot is usually the lowest paid on board.
Most IF M/E charter pilots up north earn the award ( around $38,000 ) while there are also some earning between $21,000 and $30,000 )
Chief Pilots, GA Charter, can expect between $45,000 to $55,00 and LCRPT $55,000 to $65,000.
VFR line pilots are often paid only $25 per revenue M/R hour and this usually sees them working below the poverty line.
So, yes, accept that we earn less than most professionals until we make it to a major operator.
But then, schoolteachers are usually pretty bored with their lot in life, we usually have challenging, interesting and unpredictable lifestyles and we get to see sometimes breath taking scenery and sights, all this usually capped off with the satisfaction of a greaser landing to finish our day. Does it get better ?
It's lifestyle or dollars, seldom both, and given the choice I think we are passionate enough about aviation to go for the lifestyle and the satisfaction that brings, rather than count and compare salaries.
Most of you already have experienced the common misbelief held by your non-aviation friends/aquaintenances that we all earn 6 figure salaries.
In fact we often earn less than half that of schoolteachers we fly around ( after several years they get $55,000 pa, plus 10 weeks leave per annum and they don't work Sat, Sun and public holidays).
They are usually stunned to hear what their pilot really gets paid. And the greatest risk they face in their job is a sexual harassment charge, hardly life threatening.
Even in RFDS, the pilot is usually the lowest paid on board.
Most IF M/E charter pilots up north earn the award ( around $38,000 ) while there are also some earning between $21,000 and $30,000 )
Chief Pilots, GA Charter, can expect between $45,000 to $55,00 and LCRPT $55,000 to $65,000.
VFR line pilots are often paid only $25 per revenue M/R hour and this usually sees them working below the poverty line.
So, yes, accept that we earn less than most professionals until we make it to a major operator.
But then, schoolteachers are usually pretty bored with their lot in life, we usually have challenging, interesting and unpredictable lifestyles and we get to see sometimes breath taking scenery and sights, all this usually capped off with the satisfaction of a greaser landing to finish our day. Does it get better ?
It's lifestyle or dollars, seldom both, and given the choice I think we are passionate enough about aviation to go for the lifestyle and the satisfaction that brings, rather than count and compare salaries.
Don Quixote Impersonator
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Mainframe
But then, schoolteachers usually have challenging, interesting and ultimately deeply fulfilling lifestyles and get to see sometimes, the breath taking sight of the lights in the young minds of our children and future "turning on", all this usually capped off with the satisfaction of leaving the world a more enlightened place to finish our day. Does it get better ?
Not much and I suspect that they get paid by society accordingly.
For the pilot not much and I suspect that they get paid by society accordingly.
I suspect an exquisitely selfish motivation that can not be shared nor adds one jot to anyone elses life but your own.
I too have experienced all manner of amazing sights and emotions but mostly ALONE, with the usual thought "I wish my friends/family could see/feel this. They sadly cannot.
I will take the essence of ALL of them unshared and unnoticed to my grave.
How many times have you tried to share them later, been disappointed by the relative lack of interest or even light derision, then stopped doing it.
Their reaction probably being the same as yours when a teacher friend is trying to explain the joy of watching that "light go on".
Thats your choice and I suspect "society" has it about right.
Ultimately I suspect, we are ALL paid according to the value of our contribution to the society at large.
But then, schoolteachers usually have challenging, interesting and ultimately deeply fulfilling lifestyles and get to see sometimes, the breath taking sight of the lights in the young minds of our children and future "turning on", all this usually capped off with the satisfaction of leaving the world a more enlightened place to finish our day. Does it get better ?
Not much and I suspect that they get paid by society accordingly.
we usually have challenging, interesting and unpredictable lifestyles and we get to see sometimes breath taking scenery and sights, all this usually capped off with the satisfaction of a greaser landing to finish our day. Does it get better ?
I suspect an exquisitely selfish motivation that can not be shared nor adds one jot to anyone elses life but your own.
I too have experienced all manner of amazing sights and emotions but mostly ALONE, with the usual thought "I wish my friends/family could see/feel this. They sadly cannot.
I will take the essence of ALL of them unshared and unnoticed to my grave.
How many times have you tried to share them later, been disappointed by the relative lack of interest or even light derision, then stopped doing it.
Their reaction probably being the same as yours when a teacher friend is trying to explain the joy of watching that "light go on".
It's lifestyle or dollars, seldom both, and given the choice I think we are passionate enough about aviation to go for the lifestyle and the satisfaction that brings, rather than count and compare salaries.
Ultimately I suspect, we are ALL paid according to the value of our contribution to the society at large.
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This is a subject very close to my heart and one that unfortunately gets me very worked up. I think its a sad sad sad fact that the reality is that most of us will never get to the airlines. This is not sad because the airlines are the best job out there (proberly far from), but the airlines are the only place where you can earn a decent living. Lets face it, it is near impossible to make a 'normal wage' in GA. Even 25k is out of the reach of most GA pilots. What a joke!!
Most will work their guts out in GA until they are 30, living under the poverty line and end up broke with no assets, no friends (real ones in this industry?-yeah right) and no partner due to their career coming first.
But dont give up keep chasing that dream! yeah right! explain that to a family when your living on two minute noodles. Wake up!! you may never get that elusive airline job, what then einstien!!
What a great great industry we have been so lucky to become involved with.
Most will work their guts out in GA until they are 30, living under the poverty line and end up broke with no assets, no friends (real ones in this industry?-yeah right) and no partner due to their career coming first.
But dont give up keep chasing that dream! yeah right! explain that to a family when your living on two minute noodles. Wake up!! you may never get that elusive airline job, what then einstien!!
What a great great industry we have been so lucky to become involved with.
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Poverty..
Yeah you have some good points.. and I'm sure plenty of people will flame you for saying what you have said...
However.. I agree.. many probably won't get into a airline. You never hear about the ones that don't make it. You only hear other pilots badmouthing them, saying, "Oh, they just weren't good enough to make it"...
At the end of the day, it is up to YOU to make the final decision as to what you want.. Yes.. sometimes you have to cut your losses and place other priorities higher than your career, i.e family, if it ain't working out.
But why not look at other options too, like having a second career on the go while flying, or at least training in a second career while flying so if the preverbal hits the fan.. you have something to fall back on...
Yeah you have some good points.. and I'm sure plenty of people will flame you for saying what you have said...
However.. I agree.. many probably won't get into a airline. You never hear about the ones that don't make it. You only hear other pilots badmouthing them, saying, "Oh, they just weren't good enough to make it"...
At the end of the day, it is up to YOU to make the final decision as to what you want.. Yes.. sometimes you have to cut your losses and place other priorities higher than your career, i.e family, if it ain't working out.
But why not look at other options too, like having a second career on the go while flying, or at least training in a second career while flying so if the preverbal hits the fan.. you have something to fall back on...
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I think the first 4 -5 years in GA as being an apprenticeship and try to justify it that way even though not many people would fork over 50k to do one. However its not a bad job compared to sitting behind a desk all day looking at the same faces and following the same old routine (you could be doing bungle scenics though), sometimes I guess you have to trade some money for the job satisfaction.
As for the money well I get pretty
also when our smelly local friends get paid more on CDEP for drinking green cans underneath the shade of a tree all day and then puke up all over the backseat of your plane and proclaim your a racist because you ask them as to why they didn't use the spew bag and to help clean their mess up and then they decide to urinate on themselves while you pull out their scabie encrusted blanket from the a/c in a 45 degree heat after a 15minute sector that would net you the handsome sum of $7.50.........
however.........
When your cruising down the coast early morning, low cloud in the valleys watching the sharks and turtles swimming around, the air is as smooth as silk and no pax, its pretty damn good and your glad to being doing this as one of the selected few that can. It makes you more determined to do whatever extra study, courses etc to reach a job that your happy with, that could be a floatplane in the pacific, airlines, buzzing in a F18 or a regional airline... its aviation, everyone has to do some kind of hard yards some way longer than others, but then you can always get quit and get another job beacuse its very unlikely that a pay rise for GA pilots is going occur in the near future.
As for the money well I get pretty
also when our smelly local friends get paid more on CDEP for drinking green cans underneath the shade of a tree all day and then puke up all over the backseat of your plane and proclaim your a racist because you ask them as to why they didn't use the spew bag and to help clean their mess up and then they decide to urinate on themselves while you pull out their scabie encrusted blanket from the a/c in a 45 degree heat after a 15minute sector that would net you the handsome sum of $7.50.........however.........
When your cruising down the coast early morning, low cloud in the valleys watching the sharks and turtles swimming around, the air is as smooth as silk and no pax, its pretty damn good and your glad to being doing this as one of the selected few that can. It makes you more determined to do whatever extra study, courses etc to reach a job that your happy with, that could be a floatplane in the pacific, airlines, buzzing in a F18 or a regional airline... its aviation, everyone has to do some kind of hard yards some way longer than others, but then you can always get quit and get another job beacuse its very unlikely that a pay rise for GA pilots is going occur in the near future.
Strewth, stallie, I'm a bit disapointed mate. What about us ijots wizzing around at bugga all feet spraying bugs and scaring cows. its a bugga of a job and we certainly dont get paid for the risks we take.
Hey topend3, did you forget to log out mate? MMMMMMMMM, the fun I could have if I was a bad bugga. dont worry mate I'll log out for ya!!!!!!!!!. Wiz.
Oh and the reply above was mine too, stallie (wiz that is)
Hey topend3, did you forget to log out mate? MMMMMMMMM, the fun I could have if I was a bad bugga. dont worry mate I'll log out for ya!!!!!!!!!. Wiz.
Oh and the reply above was mine too, stallie (wiz that is)
