AOPA Elections
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I have merged the "AOPA needs our help" thread with this one as the more approriate, so that it reduces the confusion a little.
I think I will close the Woomera thread but leave it stickied for the same reason.
The Woomera thread was and is not intended as an electioneering stunt for his/her election as there are too many of us one
It was merely to give AOPA as a whole a plug during the difficult time it is experiencing and as a means of helping to boost the membership to its former safe level.
We cannot and will not endorse any candidate here, that prerogative solely belongs to you the readership of PPRuNe and themembership of AOPA.
You should be both
I think I will close the Woomera thread but leave it stickied for the same reason.
The Woomera thread was and is not intended as an electioneering stunt for his/her election as there are too many of us one
It was merely to give AOPA as a whole a plug during the difficult time it is experiencing and as a means of helping to boost the membership to its former safe level.
We cannot and will not endorse any candidate here, that prerogative solely belongs to you the readership of PPRuNe and themembership of AOPA.
You should be both
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paddopat.
I dont realy understand why I am replying to your comments but here goes. This is just a site where people from all sides of aviation come and talk about all sorts of things relating to a common interest ie the love of aviation. Do I think Ihave the right to verbaly abuse anyone that tries to destroy the very thing I and many others love, well yes I do. I feel a little insulted that you assume I want to stop people from expressing there thoughts or ideas, this thought could not be further from the truth.
My whole point on the matter is that fact Snarek is an Ex- board member and should not be distorting the views of us people that are only members Im sure Im old enough to make up my own mind. If he has an axe to grind then do it somewhere else. As I have previously stated there is alot of people out there that are new to the industry should they be subject to this or is it fair to say that they should make up there own mind base on correct and not distorted information. Have a good look at the current state of the world we are on the brink of war all because people are listening to others that are distorting the truth to justify there actions and everyone else is jumping to conclusions based on this distorted truth, sad fact but probably true.
So whats the point of all this well if you want to be like everyone else and destroy the very thing that brings us all together then I guess no matter what I say will make no difference. Yes we all have the freedom of speach but it came at a price, if you want to destroy the very meaning of that comment then carry on, but don't expect that those of us who do value that freedom will not pass a comment from time to time.
Myself personally, well I have made up my own mind base on what I personally have knowledge of and my own personal view which you will have noticed I have not commented on in my posts and rightly so because they are my views and I should not try to influence people by them. I know you all probably care but you must see that in alot of these cases its damaging to the industry.
Now I do have it on good authority that snarek is an Ex-board member any comments by him are just not right. I dont know of the others but have suspicions but again I should keep them to myself which I will. Axiom well sorry I dont know him from a bar of soap I mearly made a passing comment, I do appologise if you felt my comments were harsh but I believe I have earned the right to say them. I will continue to protect the very thing that makes me want to get up every day and thats flying.
I dont realy understand why I am replying to your comments but here goes. This is just a site where people from all sides of aviation come and talk about all sorts of things relating to a common interest ie the love of aviation. Do I think Ihave the right to verbaly abuse anyone that tries to destroy the very thing I and many others love, well yes I do. I feel a little insulted that you assume I want to stop people from expressing there thoughts or ideas, this thought could not be further from the truth.
My whole point on the matter is that fact Snarek is an Ex- board member and should not be distorting the views of us people that are only members Im sure Im old enough to make up my own mind. If he has an axe to grind then do it somewhere else. As I have previously stated there is alot of people out there that are new to the industry should they be subject to this or is it fair to say that they should make up there own mind base on correct and not distorted information. Have a good look at the current state of the world we are on the brink of war all because people are listening to others that are distorting the truth to justify there actions and everyone else is jumping to conclusions based on this distorted truth, sad fact but probably true.
So whats the point of all this well if you want to be like everyone else and destroy the very thing that brings us all together then I guess no matter what I say will make no difference. Yes we all have the freedom of speach but it came at a price, if you want to destroy the very meaning of that comment then carry on, but don't expect that those of us who do value that freedom will not pass a comment from time to time.
Myself personally, well I have made up my own mind base on what I personally have knowledge of and my own personal view which you will have noticed I have not commented on in my posts and rightly so because they are my views and I should not try to influence people by them. I know you all probably care but you must see that in alot of these cases its damaging to the industry.
Now I do have it on good authority that snarek is an Ex-board member any comments by him are just not right. I dont know of the others but have suspicions but again I should keep them to myself which I will. Axiom well sorry I dont know him from a bar of soap I mearly made a passing comment, I do appologise if you felt my comments were harsh but I believe I have earned the right to say them. I will continue to protect the very thing that makes me want to get up every day and thats flying.
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"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13
"I", axiom, made the committment, and, my forebears, and some very dear friends paid the ultimate sacrifice, so you "Paddy" have the freedom of speech to call me paranoid, insinuate I have little voices in my brain, and the temerity to stick up for my mates.
Perhaps you are another of snarek's identities, talk about paranoid !
Why don't you just go away and wait your turn at the ANZAC march with snarek and his hand wringing, stand in the corner, snipe at whoever you don't like mob of small "d" Democrats who regularly have meetings in telephone box's.
Call my "Gunner" mates what snarek was going on about, and it won't be "me" with any ideas of violence toward you. (but I'd pay money to be there).
Probably better if you nominate for the board of the "reserruction of AOPA" which has now taken on biblical proportions.
Seeing as we are now down to name calling (really helpful to the election of a professional body to take up the challenges laid down by woomera),
What "have" you done, that will escalate your mediocre status from a "5 minute of fame follower" to a person with Bill Hamilton's achievements.
The Irish love a sh!t fight don't they ?
P!ss or get off the pot !!!
"I", axiom, made the committment, and, my forebears, and some very dear friends paid the ultimate sacrifice, so you "Paddy" have the freedom of speech to call me paranoid, insinuate I have little voices in my brain, and the temerity to stick up for my mates.
Perhaps you are another of snarek's identities, talk about paranoid !
Why don't you just go away and wait your turn at the ANZAC march with snarek and his hand wringing, stand in the corner, snipe at whoever you don't like mob of small "d" Democrats who regularly have meetings in telephone box's.
Call my "Gunner" mates what snarek was going on about, and it won't be "me" with any ideas of violence toward you. (but I'd pay money to be there).
Probably better if you nominate for the board of the "reserruction of AOPA" which has now taken on biblical proportions.
Seeing as we are now down to name calling (really helpful to the election of a professional body to take up the challenges laid down by woomera),
What "have" you done, that will escalate your mediocre status from a "5 minute of fame follower" to a person with Bill Hamilton's achievements.
The Irish love a sh!t fight don't they ?
P!ss or get off the pot !!!
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2B1
Some reasoned thought there and I shall comment on it. If you feel I have in some way linked you to axioms paranoid threats of violence to any that disagree with him, I am sorry. I understand how disturbing such a link could be.
You have argued well about opinion, and how here on PPRuNe we are all here to share it. You have then argued that snarek, because he is an ex-Board member, should shut up.
The two do not follow and in fact are contradictory.
Surely snarek has earned the right to an opinion by actually standing for the Board and serving on it, many here with strong opinions on AOPA aren't even members (are you??). Obviously there is something wrong inside the Board and it seems to me to be linked to the behaviour of Lyon and Hamilton, an opinion well supported on this forum by another ex-Board member, general comments and the poll in another thread.
Who the would be better placed to properly inform members and potential members about what is going on than someone who was 'inside'. Obviously snarek will have his own slant on things, but that is for you and the other intelligent people here to filter and reach your own opinion, which you, like snarek, are perfectly entitled to.
Pat
Some reasoned thought there and I shall comment on it. If you feel I have in some way linked you to axioms paranoid threats of violence to any that disagree with him, I am sorry. I understand how disturbing such a link could be.
You have argued well about opinion, and how here on PPRuNe we are all here to share it. You have then argued that snarek, because he is an ex-Board member, should shut up.
The two do not follow and in fact are contradictory.
Surely snarek has earned the right to an opinion by actually standing for the Board and serving on it, many here with strong opinions on AOPA aren't even members (are you??). Obviously there is something wrong inside the Board and it seems to me to be linked to the behaviour of Lyon and Hamilton, an opinion well supported on this forum by another ex-Board member, general comments and the poll in another thread.
Who the would be better placed to properly inform members and potential members about what is going on than someone who was 'inside'. Obviously snarek will have his own slant on things, but that is for you and the other intelligent people here to filter and reach your own opinion, which you, like snarek, are perfectly entitled to.
Pat
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Pat
This will be my final reply on this subject so here goes. Yes I am a member of AOPA, gold card clutched in fingers as we speak. My favorite Quote, I do not know snarek from a bar of soap, which makes my point more valid. This is not personal, look I have read the posts on this site for some time now and have only recently wanted to pass comment. If snarek or any other ex or current board members post a comment on this topic it is going to be distorted, its akin to asking a victims family to pass a judgement on a defendant based on what the prosecution lawyers have said it does not work and can only make the situation worse. These comments will scare people away from joining that is a fact. People around me are saying they will not join because of some of these comments, so in fact the damage has already been done. Yes I agree both you and I are capable of making up or own mind however there are lots of new people out there that are looking to people like us for inspiration and guidance they listen to what we say with intent and will be guided by our comments.
Your comment who would be better placed to inform members.
Well if you asked a politician who to vote for in an election whats his responce? if you asked him what he thought was wrong with the opposition party he would give you a thousand reasons.
AOPA's doors are always open I do visit from time to time to say hello I dont see any hidden agenda as I walk through the door the odd time I have met the board members they seem reasonable people. Now I am not saying there are not problems there clearly there are however before we all jump in and vote people off the board we have the responsibility of A) Making sure that there is actually someone to replace him or her and that they have the time to commit to the job as well as being the right person. B) Making sure steps are in place to prevent this situation from re-occuring.
As far as Snarek is concerned yes he has the right to voice his oppinion but I truly believe he also as well as other current or ex board members have to exercise their moral right to abstain from comment. Because in truth they are akin to politicians AOPA is not a political party and should not be used as such especially on this forum. This **** fight that has developed over those comments has not only damaged AOPA but GA in general. We have now got to try and repair the damage the and thats going to take some time. I always talk or type in this case from the heart, HENCE THE NAME (2B1ASK1) some of you out there will know what that name means, if all of you that have made biased comments on this subject would sit back and think for a second then you would see this whole **** fight has not helped in any way. this could have and should be brought to the table at the AGM. The damage has to stop now woomera is attempting to unite us all for the good but nobody seems to be listening.
My only agenda is the love of aviation as is many of you out there but we must always be carefull not to damage the very thing we all love. Our passion should be passed on not poisoned by people that have an axe to grind on either side of the fence. So thats that, feel free to email me if you wish to discuss the matter further I have nothing to hide nor a personal agenda.
This will be my final reply on this subject so here goes. Yes I am a member of AOPA, gold card clutched in fingers as we speak. My favorite Quote, I do not know snarek from a bar of soap, which makes my point more valid. This is not personal, look I have read the posts on this site for some time now and have only recently wanted to pass comment. If snarek or any other ex or current board members post a comment on this topic it is going to be distorted, its akin to asking a victims family to pass a judgement on a defendant based on what the prosecution lawyers have said it does not work and can only make the situation worse. These comments will scare people away from joining that is a fact. People around me are saying they will not join because of some of these comments, so in fact the damage has already been done. Yes I agree both you and I are capable of making up or own mind however there are lots of new people out there that are looking to people like us for inspiration and guidance they listen to what we say with intent and will be guided by our comments.
Your comment who would be better placed to inform members.
Well if you asked a politician who to vote for in an election whats his responce? if you asked him what he thought was wrong with the opposition party he would give you a thousand reasons.
AOPA's doors are always open I do visit from time to time to say hello I dont see any hidden agenda as I walk through the door the odd time I have met the board members they seem reasonable people. Now I am not saying there are not problems there clearly there are however before we all jump in and vote people off the board we have the responsibility of A) Making sure that there is actually someone to replace him or her and that they have the time to commit to the job as well as being the right person. B) Making sure steps are in place to prevent this situation from re-occuring.
As far as Snarek is concerned yes he has the right to voice his oppinion but I truly believe he also as well as other current or ex board members have to exercise their moral right to abstain from comment. Because in truth they are akin to politicians AOPA is not a political party and should not be used as such especially on this forum. This **** fight that has developed over those comments has not only damaged AOPA but GA in general. We have now got to try and repair the damage the and thats going to take some time. I always talk or type in this case from the heart, HENCE THE NAME (2B1ASK1) some of you out there will know what that name means, if all of you that have made biased comments on this subject would sit back and think for a second then you would see this whole **** fight has not helped in any way. this could have and should be brought to the table at the AGM. The damage has to stop now woomera is attempting to unite us all for the good but nobody seems to be listening.
My only agenda is the love of aviation as is many of you out there but we must always be carefull not to damage the very thing we all love. Our passion should be passed on not poisoned by people that have an axe to grind on either side of the fence. So thats that, feel free to email me if you wish to discuss the matter further I have nothing to hide nor a personal agenda.
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2B1ASK1, paddopat, axiom, snarek et.al
On one thing you are united, AOPA is important and needs our support.
sorta sums up what I was trying to say.
So why don't we all start off again from that united point and concentrate on going forward.
As I pointed out to those who haven't been around long it was the personal agend of others, represented as AOPA agenda, that has brought AOPA to this point.
I believe this thread has now run its course, achieved its aim of exposing some issues and is no longer relevant in the scheme of going forward so I am going to close and unsticky it.
I have reopened the Woomera perspective thread for, hopefully constructive discussion and as a means of you guys helping turn some of the "negative" attitudes around.
May I reiterate.
On one thing you are united, AOPA is important and needs our support.
The damage has to stop now woomera is attempting to unite us all for the good but nobody seems to be listening.
My only agenda is the love of aviation as is many of you out there but we must always be carefull not to damage the very thing we all love. Our passion should be passed on not poisoned by people that have an axe to grind on either side of the fence. So thats that, feel free to email me if you wish to discuss the matter further I have nothing to hide nor a personal agenda.
My only agenda is the love of aviation as is many of you out there but we must always be carefull not to damage the very thing we all love. Our passion should be passed on not poisoned by people that have an axe to grind on either side of the fence. So thats that, feel free to email me if you wish to discuss the matter further I have nothing to hide nor a personal agenda.
So why don't we all start off again from that united point and concentrate on going forward.
As I pointed out to those who haven't been around long it was the personal agend of others, represented as AOPA agenda, that has brought AOPA to this point.
I believe this thread has now run its course, achieved its aim of exposing some issues and is no longer relevant in the scheme of going forward so I am going to close and unsticky it.
I have reopened the Woomera perspective thread for, hopefully constructive discussion and as a means of you guys helping turn some of the "negative" attitudes around.
May I reiterate.
The issues that dominate the current debate would not be issues were there membership numbers appropriate to the number of Aircraft Owners and Pilots in this country.
It is not enough now to protest that you wouldn’t join, rejoin or renew because "so and so" is still there, when clearly "so and so" is only there because no one else will step up, either to offer an alternative, or to help.
It is not enough now to protest that you wouldn’t join, rejoin or renew because "so and so" is still there, when clearly "so and so" is only there because no one else will step up, either to offer an alternative, or to help.
