New Z flight training school

[shamrock]

Hi all,

I'm sure the question has been asked before but I can't find it in this forum.

I'm looking for a reccomendation for a good New Zealand based flying school. I'm probably heading out that way early next year and would like to 'finish' (still a lot to do) my PPL while I am there. Seems like a good opportunity.

So, two questions really ..

1. Where to train, how much costa, how long ... etc.

2. Is the NZ license easily convertable to a JAA / European license?

Thanks in advance for any help. If you want, email me instead at [email protected]

[flyby_kiwi]

Where you may find the answers is www.caa.govt.nz for the licence conversion info. For the flying side there is www.rnzac.org.nz with a list of aeroclubs around the country and if your in Auckland there is www.ardmore.co.nz who will also look after any immigration requirments you might encounter.

Cost will vary - about NZ$155-NZ$160hr for a C172 seems to be a going rate, about NZ$135hr for a C152, and about NZ$310 - NZ$370 for a light twin depending on what it is and how its charged out (ie tacho/hobbs/airswitch).
From what Ive seen there is little to no $hr difference between aeroclubs and flying schools for the a/c hire but some may charge usually around another $35hr for an instructor.
Ldg fees are usually about NZ$7 - NZ$20 for a light single engine a/c and most organisations will pick up flightplan fees themselves.

Email me urther questions you may have,
All the best anyway!

[big buddah]

http://www.piperpat.co.nz/nz/tourism/aviation.html

that might keep you busy for awhile.

[Sharfted Groundhog]

Ardmore Flying School has a good reputation, but it's quite a large school and you run the risk of being just another number. The CFI there is a good pilot - if not a slightly wierd character!!!

Flyby_Kiwi is right; there's not alot of difference in price between aero clubs and flying schools in NZ but there are some really large differences in quality between places. Take a really good look around and see what suits you best.... Make sure your instructor has been out of nappies for a while. NZ tends to have very young inexperienced instructors. This is a vast generalisation but something to be aware of.

As for transferring a NZ licence to a JAA licence; forget it! Unless you have substantial time on heavy aircraft (ie jet), you have to redo all the exams over there as well as all the hours for an instrument rating and all the flight tests as well! It'll all take around another year and about 20,000 pounds - not including living costs.....

I think all the doors are shut with respect to transferring licences to JAA equivalents - including the US.

[Fly Stimulator]

Shamrock,

If you are just thinking about converting a PPL (as you seem to be) then conversion to a JAR PPL here in the UK is quite straightforward. See the thread here and follow its links to the excellent Irv Lee's site.

In a nutshell, you'll have to do some or all of the UK PPL exams (depending on whether you have 100 hours or not), do the skills test and have a medical.

Groundhog's alarming figures are true for commercial and IR conversions, but you don't seem to be asking about that.

You imply that you already have some flight training. I'd check whether any of those hours will count towards a NZ licence - they may not. New Zealand PPLs require a minimum of 50 hours.

As far as schools and clubs in NZ go, I've only flown with one - Kapiti Aero Club at Paraparaumu, just north of Wellington. I thoroughly enjoyed that - an excellent bunch of people, great scenery nearby and enough varied terrain to start on things like mountain flying as well as the basics. A UK-based friend who did her PPL(H) there last year also had a great time with them.

[Homebrew1]

Best course around.

Hi there Shamrock, If you are after a well structured, intergrated course which will leave you well set up for the future, there is only one you should look at in New Zealand. The course is that run by SIMUFLIGHT at Ardmore Aerodrome. The course was originally set up with input of all of the large commuter and primary carriers. This course is also eligible for FULL student loan funding. You will not be disappointed if you call them for further details.

Best of luck.

[Sharfted Groundhog]

I agree that Kapiti Aero Club is a good one - but I wonder if it will continue to be as good now that Brian (CFI) has died..... Who has taken his place? Yes, they are good in the fact that it's a smaller town and friendlier people (in comparison to AA!) but it depends on where you come from; Paraparaumu can be a very quiet place compared to alot of other places, if you know what I mean (if you do go there; watch out for the oldies on those motorised scooters!

As for Simuflight; I've heard really conflicting stories about them and would look at others first. I'm sure they are really nice people, but they are very young and being run (read; whipped) by an over-wraught stressed out Air NZ pilot! I've also heard that the standard of teaching relys too heavily on the computor based programme and not enough on one-to-one tuition that is so imperative in this business.... Remember; this is only my opinion and that of others passed onto me! I also wonder if the information given that it was set up with the input of NZ airlines is actually correct..... From what I understand the programme was imported from the UK and set up by the owner as an easy flight testing method!

The NZ CAA's website is; www.caa.govt.nz This should help in giving you info about utilising the training your've already had.

Best of Luck!

[magnum pi]

Try airnewplymouth.co.nz/ - use to be just a aero club but now mainly training. A/c include C152-C172- C182- SENECA & NAVAJO.Wayne Harrison is cfi - been there since early 70's & knows how to train pilots.

[shamrock]

Hi all

Thanks very much for the feedback. In the meantime, I've found a place - Canterbury Aero Club/Inernational Aviation Academy (at Christchurch)

Any thoughts on that particular flight training organisation?

Thanks,

[Sharfted Groundhog]

I've seen their facilities, and they are really new and quite professional. They have both a flying school and aero club in their facilities but run their professional training quite separately which is a good thing..... I think their managers or CFI's (can't remember which) name is Jay and he's a pretty straight up and down sort of guy from first impressions....

Christchurch is a lovely city with lovely friendly people. There are ski fields close by and some pretty amazing tourist attractions quite close that might also be of interest while your over here.

I wouldn't have too many problems recommending them; don't know what the general feeling is out in the traps but I can't imagine it being too different.

Christchurch gets some pretty amazing weather patterns - dust up on fohn winds and mountain flying before you come! The westerly down in that part of the country can be quite challenging!

Make sure you get an instructor who is on to it - and have no qualms about changing if your not happy!

Best of luck - good choice I think!

[flyby_kiwi]

Magnum PI;

I gave New Plmouth Aeroclub a call about 6 months ago and they no longer had the C182 on line but had a C207 for $270hr. No mention of a senneca. As I said however - this was a while ago and if your in the know would you be able to tell me what the pilot minimums were for the Navajo and if there is a sennaca still online what its minimums were and the $$per/hr for each. From memory the C207 was 150hrs PIC which I thought was quite reasonable - Any info would be great.

Would have to say that from what New Plmouth have(if they still do) they would seem to have a well varied and interesting fleet of a/c.

[Dances_With_Clouds]

Air New Plymouth no longer have their Seneca. They still have their Navajo (with 325hp a side) and a Partenavia (ZSP from Sunair), plus their single engine trainers C-152's, C-172's & C-207.

They don't do a lot of multi charter work and that they do get has about 5 pilots fighting for the left hand seat.

Saying that, they are NZQA, Part 141 and Part 135 affiliated and Wayne Harrison is very good at his job (speaking from experience). The main reason for the P68B is for multi training once the students get to that level.

If you are looking for advancement onto twins, the only place that really has any chance at all is Feilding Aviation - with Air Charter Manawatu or Bay of Plenty Flight Centre - with Sunair Aviaiton. Both places have long waiting lists, but they are worth talking to.

[divorcingjack]

IAANZ Christchurch

hey mate,

I went through all the trauma of trying to pick the right school a couple of months ago .. what a nightmare.
I finally decided on Christchurch academy and have heard nothing but excellent feedback, both from existing students,
and "on the grapevine". Due to start my CPL/IR there in january .. pending medical issues..
Also found out a LOT about conversions - feel free to PM if you want to know any details.

Cheers, hope to see you out there ! dj

[Groundsman Willy]

If you're self financing don't go to the flying schools.

Ardmore Flying School, great theory courses, but you are definitely just another number handing over your life savings, with no thanks or "how's your training going".

Simuflight, if you like sitting in a wee cubicle on your own looking at a computer screen then fine otherwise don't go there.

The clubs are far friendlier and you'll meet people with a huge wealth of knowledge and quite probably people who work in the industry other than instuctors.

Here's a posting I made a wee while a go, give it a read.

NZ's a great place, came here nearly three years ago myself and have absolutely no reason to go home except missing family and friends.

<<
Well I’ve done it at last, passed the CPL flight test – Friday the 13th of all days. Nine months it’s taken me since starting my CPL training; a year and three months since ab-initio. I could possibly have done it quicker but work, money, weather and maintaining some enjoyment in it dictated that it was a good and practical progress rate.

Total time was 263hrs but en-route I did 10hrs aerobatics (huge recommendation), 10hrs in a tail-dragger (good for ye olde rudder work), 15hrs mountain flying course (spectacular), a six day blast round New Zealand with two great friends, and a few route checks to allow me to go straight on line commercially.

I was totally naive when I started out and found it difficult to get unbiased advice so I thought I’d put my experience to PPRUNE for others in the same boat. Can I first ask others not to post any personal attacks regarding any particular instructor or establishment because all that happens is the whole thread gets deleted and does nobody any good – Thanks.

I started my training at one of the big Ardmore flying schools and bashed through all the theory courses non-stop. PPL, CPL, IFR theory and didn’t go near a plane for those first three or four months. It was hard but the best thing I could’ve done and have no regrets doing it that way. The flying school environment is definitely the easiest way to study, I’ve studied my ATPL’s at home and it sucks – concentration span of about three minutes at home. The classroom is frustrating at times due to young punks who appear to be there killing time and wasting money, but it's still better than self-study.

The schools will tell you that you can’t do your theory there unless you also do your flying as well, crap. Only a small percentage of those that do the theory course actually go on and do the flying, they can’t force you to do the flying there, and your ASL exam results are yours – end of story.

The complications arise depending on how you are funding it all. Student loans do tie you to the big flying schools but you can still change between stages ie. PPL to CPL, CPL to C’Cat. With self funding you can change at any time and train anywhere.

Picking somewhere to train is pretty easy if you are using a student loan – where is your easiest/cheapest/preferred place to live? Then pick the big school near there, end of story. They are all pretty much the same – young instructors, little experience, fly only in fair weather, give you the big sell about work opportunities and industry contacts, new planes, equipment and simulators and at the end of the day NONE OF IT MEANS JACK!!! All they want at the end of the day is your money and because they get your loan direct to them they have control of it.

If you are self-funding do your flying at some of the great wee clubs round New Zealand. You should be looking for them to have at least one or two full time B’Cat instructors and preferably a commercial operation of some sort at the same location. Don’t believe the theory that you should stay with the same instructor throughout, having flights with other instructors can put a whole new perspective on things and you can glean all sorts of knowledge, hints, and others experience from changing.

I started my flying and completed my PPL at the same school in Ardmore that I did my theory. They very nearly talked me into staying but I can say without ANY doubt or hesitation that moving to Queenstown and joining Wakatipu Aero Club was the best decision I have ever made in my life.

I had heard a wee bit about them and read an article in Aviation news but was still a bit unsure. I did a search on PPRUNE and came up with only good comments. I then phoned a couple of operators and talked to their Chief Pilots, again more praise.

Here’s Ardmore’s reasons not to go to WAC at ZQN and my experience for comparison:-

1. Old planes – So what, they go as well if not better than some of the flash new ones.
2. End up costing more – Not likely, I’m ready to work and will get work NOW, not in five months time when one of your thirty other instructors twiddling their thumbs, move on.
Hourly rate Ardmore $200/hr plus landing fee, plus airways, plus flight planning, charged from the time the ignition is switched on.
W.A.C $162/hr inlcuding landing fees, airways and flight planning, charged from completion of your run-ups. Do the sums!!
3. No night flying in ZQN – So what, when am I going to need it. What’s the problem with popping to Invercargill/Dunedin or anywhere else to do it.
4. No twin engine aircraft – Yes they do, Partenavia. Used for training and commercial ops so when you get rated in it you can also get work to keep current. That also goes for the C206 that they operate.
5. No IFR in ZQN– True but again, at what stage in your aviation career are you going to require this, certainly not at the beginning. Do a course whenever and wherever you like, when you need to.
6. The weather – Ha!! This one is laughable, I had three times more “no fly” days in Auckland than Queenstown, and even that aside at least they teach you to fly in marginal conditions, rain, snow, low cloud, real cross winds.

Do I need to go on? Yes. Okay then, strip landings, beach landings, Milford Sound, the mountains, turbulence, forced landings where there aren’t a thousand paddocks – there may only be one and it isn’t in sight yet, real people with experience, real contacts, real opportunities, a far nicer atmosphere. REAL and PRACTICAL SKILL, not just the requirement to pass a flight test.

When I started at Wakatipu Aero Club I had my PPL, some consolidation time and some aerobatics, I thought I was on my way to becoming a Pilot. After my very first flight I knew I had a bloody long way to go.

There are other aeroclubs with a similar approach to flying as WAC, this is just the one I have experience with, but to me, the mountain skills I have learned are unsurpassable.

I hope this has been of interest and help in your decision making, as long as you go for it and KEEP POSITIVE. The thing about flying, at this stage anyway, “The highs are way higher than the lows”
>>

Best of luck

Groundsman Willy (not on the ground as often)

[G-LOST]

Groundhog does talk cr*p...

Simuflight get my vote. No problems with the quality of training on the ground or in the air. The boss is not overstressed, just a motivated go-getter who operates at 100mph.

The quality training I received in NZ at Simuflight has in part enabled me to get a regional jet job in the UK, post September 11. I think that should be advertisment enough.

LOST no longer.

[aged]

I would endorse everything GW said. I did some flying in Queenstown 2 years ago and awesome is the only word to describe it. The school is good, instructors experienced and not just out of nappies, planes good.

For learning to fly, as opposed to just training to pass a test, very hard to beat.

aged

ps hows it going GW?

[Killer Loop]

I did PPL, CPL at WAC and agree with Groundsman totally. Did my theory IFR subjects up at Ardmour and to give them credit, they are good at that side of things but when it comes to the flying I think it would be difficult to beat the operation down in Queenstown.

[solowflyer]

sorry to burst any bubbles but simuflight no longer exists, it was put into receivership 6 months ago.

Willie i have read a few posts from you praising WAC, I have not flowen with them before but have been down to see them and agree, there set up and location can only be described as awsome.

I am looking at heading down there myself to do the mountain flying experience, however i have a couple of questions you might be able to help with.

1. What is the best time of year to go
2.As i will be based down there what accomadation is available and how much can i expect toay for rent
3. Any advice on part time jobs and average pay rates while i am flying

[Woodend1]

Shamrock,

see if you can get one of the more experienced instructors at the Academy in Christchurh, not one of the young ones.

PS Wear your sun glasses upon entering the building - lots of gold braid

[jimshutt]

SIMUFLIGHT IS NO LONGER IN EXISTANCE. They allegedly were taken over by a British outfit and put into receivership. Myself and others were left holding the baby for unpaid goods and services!!